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Not all sin is the same:

#1. There is a sin unto death, there is a sin not unto death (1 John 5:16-17).
#2. Jesus says there is a greater sin (John 19:11).
#3. Sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4), and Jesus said that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law (Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42).
#4. Accidental manslaughter and being able to flee to cities of refuge (Deuteronomy 19:1-13); Contrast this with intentional murder which results in capital punishment (See: Deuteronomy 19:21, Numbers 35:31).
#5. The wickedness was so bad in Noah's time that God destroyed the whole world with a global flood; And the sin at Sodom and Gomorrah was so bad that it was destroyed by fire from heaven. Surely the flood would not have happened if sin was not so bad in Noah's day, and Sodom and Gomorrah would not have been destroyed if it was not so perverse. Other cities that were pagan had obviously sinned, but they were not as grievous as the sin at Sodom and Gomorrah.
#6. Unintentional Sins could be atoned for by certain types of offerings, and yet high handed sins could not be atoned for in this way (See: Numbers 15:22-31).
#7. There are unforgivable sins like blasphemy of the Spirit (Matthew 12:32), and worshiping the beast (Revelation 13:8) (Revelation 17:8).
#8. Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Spirit and they were instantly killed, and yet (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11), Simon the sorcerer was not killed when he tried to offer money for the Spirit; For Simon was told by Peter that he could pray and hope that he may be forgiven for what he had done (Acts of the Apostles 8:9-24). No threat to Paul's standing with God was ever made when he did not listen to the Spirit's warnings in going to Jerusalem; Although he knew he would be in prison if he decided to go (Acts of the Apostles 21:1-6, Acts of the Apostles 20:22-23) which is exactly what happened to him (by which he later regretted such imprisonment - Acts of the Apostles 26:29). So not all forms of disobedience or sin merits the same form of punishment.
 
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SkyWriting

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Not all sin is the same:

#1. There is a sin unto death, there is a sin not unto death (1 John 5:16-17).

There is the sin we are born into.
If we accept God in faith we can avoid the wages of Sin (which is death)
Then the sin we still have "will not be counted against us."

But one can reject God. This is the one unforgivable sin which leads to death.
All other sins can be forgiven except rejection of the Creator.


All the other passages refer to the natural results of sin in this life. Some
people physically die from their antics, other do not. This is all sorted out
on judgment day where it is decided if your sins will be counted or forgiven.
If you reject God....then fair enough. No more fellowship options for you.
You are sentenced to a life with no forgiveness. You are in Hell.

So there is all sin with the potential of forgiveness, (and the wages are death,)
and the one sin that leads to death, for sure.

Forgivable sin and
unforgivable sin.
 
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HTacianas

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Not all sin is the same:

#1. There is a sin unto death, there is a sin not unto death (1 John 5:16-17).
#2. Jesus says there is a greater sin (John 19:11).
#3. Sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4), and Jesus said that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law (Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42).
#4. Accidental manslaughter and being able to flee to cities of refuge (Deuteronomy 19:1-13); Contrast this with intentional murder which results in capital punishment (See: Deuteronomy 19:21, Numbers 35:31).
#5. The wickedness was so bad in Noah's time that God destroyed the whole world with a global flood; And the sin at Sodom and Gomorrah was so bad that it was destroyed by fire from heaven. Surely the flood would not have happened if sin was not so bad in Noah's day, and Sodom and Gomorrah would not have been destroyed if it was not so perverse. Other cities that were pagan had obviously sinned, but they were not as grievous as the sin at Sodom and Gomorrah.
#6. Unintentional Sins could be atoned for by certain types of offerings, and yet high handed sins could not be atoned for in this way (See: Numbers 15:22-31).
#7. There are unforgivable sins like blasphemy of the Spirit (Matthew 12:32), and worshiping the beast (Revelation 13:8) (Revelation 17:8).
#8. Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Spirit and they were instantly killed, and yet (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11), Simon the sorcerer was not killed when he tried to offer money for the Spirit; For Simon was told by Peter that he could pray and hope that he may be forgiven for what he had done (Acts of the Apostles 8:9-24). No threat to Paul's standing with God was ever made when he did not listen to the Spirit's warnings in going to Jerusalem; Although he knew he would be in prison if he decided to go (Acts of the Apostles 21:1-6, Acts of the Apostles 20:22-23) which is exactly what happened to him (by which he later regretted such imprisonment - Acts of the Apostles 26:29). So not all forms of disobedience or sin merits the same form of punishment.

The analysis you've given is correct, and it is probably best explained by the Roman Church's teaching on mortal and venial sin. Some sins are minor and are those things that most people wind up doing unintentionally and then there are those intentional, or willful, sins. Intentional sins are the "sin unto death", "dead works", "sin leading to death", etc.

And as you've pointed out, those willful sins could not be atoned for under the law of Moses. That is the reason for baptism. Speaking of baptism, Paul said in the synagogue, “and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses". All those who had fallen into sin under the law were considered beyond hope and had lost their place in the world to come. Jesus said he came to "call sinners to repentance" and to "save that which is lost". Speaking also of baptism regarding previous sins, God said He will “be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
 
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GaveMeJoy

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All sin IS the same. Those verses do a good job describing that Consequences and punishment might be different but all sin is missing the mark. Disobedience is the sin, the flavor of the sin is just Satan’s window dressing.

the littlest sin like an angry thought, and the betrayal of Judas are both equal in their weight (wage is death) to a perfect God. Consequences vary but that doesn’t make any sin “smaller” or “less.”

if someone put a big line on the Mona Lisa with a magic marker, and someone else put a much bigger line through it, they would both equally ruin the painting. One stain might be bigger or more noticeable but the painting would be ruined either way.


All sin can be and is forgiven Upon repentence and indwelling of the Holy Spirit at salvation. denying the gospel (unforgivable sin) means not believing in the gospel with saving faith.
 
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All sin IS the same. Those verses do a good job describing that Consequences and punishment might be different but all sin is missing the mark. Disobedience is the sin, the flavor of the sin is just Satan’s window dressing.

the littlest sin like an angry thought, and the betrayal of Judas are both equal in their weight (wage is death) to a perfect God. Consequences vary but that doesn’t make any sin “smaller” or “less.”

if someone put a big line on the Mona Lisa with a magic marker, and someone else put a much bigger line through it, they would both equally ruin the painting. One stain might be bigger or more noticeable but the painting would be ruined either way.


All sin can be and is forgiven Upon repentence and indwelling of the Holy Spirit at salvation. denying the gospel (unforgivable sin) means not believing in the gospel with saving faith.

Not true. Jesus says there is a greater sin (John 19:11).
 
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CharismaticLady

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There is the sin we are born into.
If we accept God in faith we can avoid the wages of Sin (which is death)
Then the sin we still have "will not be counted against us."

But one can reject God. This is the one unforgivable sin which leads to death.
All other sins can be forgiven except rejection of the Creator.


All the other passages refer to the natural results of sin in this life. Some
people physically die from their antics, other do not. This is all sorted out
on judgment day where it is decided if your sins will be counted or forgiven.
If you reject God....then fair enough. No more fellowship options for you.
You are sentenced to a life with no forgiveness. You are in Hell.

So there is all sin with the potential of forgiveness, (and the wages are death,)
and the one sin that leads to death, for sure.

Forgivable sin and
unforgivable sin.

What type of sin do we still have? Jesus took away all our past sins when we first came to Him. He then gave us a new nature that hates those sins.
 
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GaveMeJoy

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FYI I think my thinking on this issue may have been a be a little off my whole life. I still stand by the fact that there are no “lesser” sins in that all sin meets the threshold of death wages and separation from God. In addition, all sin except rejecting the gospel is readily forgiven and washed white as snow through repentance and accessing Christ’s blood through at salvation. However, the “all sin is the same” statement is an oversimplification because I’m seeing the scripture clearly painting a picture that there are significant differences in consequences and affects, and it seems God reacts differently to some sin (pharisees etc) than others. Therefore this discussion is more nuanced than I thought and certainly moreso than most Christians think on either side. I’m afraid it’s one that can’t be “solved” until we leave this world
 
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CharismaticLady

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FYI I think my thinking on this issue may have been a be a little off my whole life. I still stand by the fact that there are no “lesser” sins in that all sin meets the threshold of death wages and separation from God. In addition, all sin except rejecting the gospel is readily forgiven and washed white as snow through repentance and accessing Christ’s blood through at salvation. However, the “all sin is the same” statement is an oversimplification because I’m seeing the scripture clearly painting a picture that there are significant differences in consequences and affects, and it seems God reacts differently to some sin (pharisees etc) than others. Therefore this discussion is more nuanced than I thought and certainly moreso than most Christians think on either side. I’m afraid it’s one that can’t be “solved” until we leave this world

I'm glad you've let the Word of God trump denominational teachings, such as "sin is is." Yay!!!

I see two categories:

1. Sins unto death - sins of lawlessness. Willful sins committed in rebellion to God's will and laws. These are against God, and it is to Him we must repent for them to be cleansed. Against God.

2. Sins not unto death - trespasses. Unintentional sins unwittingly committed (Leviticus 5:15). They are unknown to us so we cannot repent to be cleansed. Forgiveness depends on our forgiving each other, because these are offenses that another is injured by. Against another person.
 
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CharismaticLady

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The analysis you've given is correct, and it is probably best explained by the Roman Church's teaching on mortal and venial sin. Some sins are minor and are those things that most people wind up doing unintentionally and then there are those intentional, or willful, sins. Intentional sins are the "sin unto death", "dead works", "sin leading to death", etc.

I agree. Because the Reformationists were so against anything "Roman Catholic" they may have taken things too far. I believe that is when the 'sin is sin' belief came up with no distinction nor discernment. Many heresies came out of the Reformation. But praise God, not everyone (Protestants) turned the grace of God into licentiousness. Jacob Arminius and John Wesley are two that still believed in holiness. Revelation 3:4 You have a few names even in Sardis (the Reformation) who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
 
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SkyWriting

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What type of sin do we still have? Jesus took away all our past sins when we first came to Him. He then gave us a new nature that hates those sins.
We are born into sin just as a fish is born into water.
All are wet, and not one is dry.

Jesus forgives us that we swim in this condition and even forget where we are and embrace it. (Sin)

Jesus is constantly forgiving us our sin nature and enjoying this life.
Not that we can't enjoy it, because we know our destination.
We can walk through "mud" and still whistle a tune because we know we are saved.
Being a believer only changes our view of sin, not it's presence.
The apostles didn't stop drinking wine, they stopped drinking wine to forget their life. Then they drank wine to remember Jesus sacrifice. Sin is not gone. It's just forgiven and understood now.
 
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SkyWriting

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I'm glad you've let the Word of God trump denominational teachings, such as "sin is is." Yay!!!

I see two categories:

1. Sins unto death - sins of lawlessness. Willful sins committed in rebellion to God's will and laws. These are against God, and it is to Him we must repent for them to be cleansed. Against God.

2. Sins not unto death - trespasses. Unintentional sins unwittingly committed (Leviticus 5:15). They are unknown to us so we cannot repent to be cleansed. Forgiveness depends on our forgiving each other, because these are offenses that another is injured by. Against another person.


All sins from our birth to our death are forgiven the day we are saved.

The only unforgivable sin is not accepting forgiveness.
"There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death."
 
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SkyWriting

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Jesus says there is a greater sin (John 19:11).

Yes, the greater sin is rejecting Jesus.

All other sins, even causing Jesus' death is a lesser sin than Judas rejecting Jesus.
The lesser sin is the one that can be forgiven. Jesus forgave Pilate for his role in the crucifiction, but Judas could not be forgiven for rejecting Jesus as God.
 
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I agree. Because the Reformationists were so against anything "Roman Catholic" they may have taken things too far. I believe that is when the 'sin is sin' belief came up with no distinction nor discernment. Many heresies came out of the Reformation. But praise God, not everyone (Protestants) turned the grace of God into licentiousness. Jacob Arminius and John Wesley are two that still believed in holiness. Revelation 3:4 You have a few names even in Sardis (the Reformation) who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
I think with horrific abuses of the RC like selling of indulgences, purgatory, intentionally keeping the scriptures from being accessed by the masses, fabricated doctrine on suicide and many other similar issues (list is a thousand years long) the reformers were reactionary and definitely may have gone a bit far, but it’s hard to blame them given the circumstances. However, we can’t base our theological beliefs on what a group of fallible men say, that’s the issue the reformers were fighting against in the first place so we should do it with them. And reformed people do, they often seem like catholics and McArthur is their new Pope. But God is greater than this and his purpose will be accomplished!!!
 
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Yes, the greater sin is rejecting Jesus.

All other sins, even causing Jesus' death is a lesser sin than Judas rejecting Jesus.
The lesser sin is the one that can be forgiven. Jesus forgave Pilate for his role in the crucifiction, but Judas could not be forgiven for rejecting Jesus as God.

While it is true that to reject the Lord is one of the greater sins in this life, that does not mean all other sins are of the same degree in God's eyes. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is proof that the kind of sins they were doing there were more exceptionally bad than say other sinful cities. Hence, why God destroyed it with fire and brimstone from Heaven. God destroyed an entire world with a global flood because man's thoughts were continually evil or sinful. Peter says that these were examples to all who should live ungodly thereafter. In Moses Law, a person could atone for sins that did not intend to do, and they were not committed with a high hand in rebellion against God's laws. There was no atonement for sin if they were to break God's laws with a high hand in rebellion against those laws. While we are not under the Law of Moses (the 613 commands as a whole given to Moses and the Israelites), we are under a New Covenant with New Commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. Some of these laws or commands are repeated from the Old Law and others are entirely new laws or commands.

But in my experience, I get the impression that Belief Alone Proponents appear to hate God's laws because they believe it is impossible to live righteously by the power of God in this life. This is why the "Belief Alone Proponent" or the "Secure in Their Grievous Sin Salvationist" tries to lump all sin and offenses into one bucket so as to say you cannot possibly keep God's laws and thus.... it defends their precious fantasy belief that says all we need to do is believe in Jesus and we are good to go. I would like to wish them good luck with believing that way, but I know that such a belief will not work out for anyone in the end. We see warnings of such a wrong belief many times in Scripture.

"Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father [i.e. Belief Alone-ism]: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." (Luke 3:8-9).

"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father [i.e. Belief Alone-ism]. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." (John 8:39).

Today, we hear the same ole song and dance. We are "sons of God" or "I am saved by the finished work of the cross," and nothing we can do can take away our salvation. Yet, if Jesus was here today, He most likely would be rebuking the churches and He probably say something of the effect of, "if ye were children of God, ye would do the works of the Son of God."

Ironically Scripture confirms this even more.

1 John 3:10 says,

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."​

No doubt, the Belief Alone Proponent does not accept these verses in what they plainly say. They must be saying something else. So they have to cook up some other meaning so as to explain them away. But a person cannot change what God's Word plainly says. One either accepts the whole counsel of God's Word as it normally reads or they seek to insert an outside belief into the Scriptures that they prefer to hear.
 
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I think with horrific abuses of the RC like selling of indulgences, purgatory, intentionally keeping the scriptures from being accessed by the masses, fabricated doctrine on suicide and many other similar issues (list is a thousand years long) the reformers were reactionary and definitely may have gone a bit far, but it’s hard to blame them given the circumstances. However, we can’t base our theological beliefs on what a group of fallible men say, that’s the issue the reformers were fighting against in the first place so we should do it with them. And reformed people do, they often seem like catholics and McArthur is their new Pope. But God is greater than this and his purpose will be accomplished!!!

MacArthur is a Calvinist. "Eternal Security," or the "Secure in Your Grievous Sin View of Salvation Teaching" exists today because of Calvinism (Which was taken from St. Augustine, but it originally goes back to the gnostic belief John warned us about in his 1st epistle and the Garden of Eden when Satan said, "Yea, ye shall not die.").

MacArthur pretends to teach holy living as a requirement for salvation, but he really does not believe that way according to the Bible. The Lordship Salvation doctrine he popularized is a Trojan horse.

How so?

Well, Calvinist John MacArthur also teaches that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved.

He says, I quote: "At the trial, MacArthur, 45, is seeking to clarify his church’s teaching on suicide. “It’s not only a sin, it’s illegal,” he says. “But we teach that even if a believer takes his own life, the Lord will still receive him into His presence.”

Source:
Fundamentalist Clergymen Face Charges of 'Malpractice' When a Parishioner Turns to Suicide

John MacArthur says that a person can take the mark of the beast and they can still be saved afterwards. Listen to this audio clip by him here:

https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/audio/macarthur-take-mark.mp3

John MacArthur says, ".. sin does not result in spiritual death for the believer ... (The MacArthur Study Bible, p. 1927, comment on James 1:15)"

As for Catholicism:

Guilt by association is not always true. The Catholics believe in the Trinity, that does not mean the Trinity is not true just because Catholics believe this particular truth in Scripture. Yes, their church traditions that contradict God's Word is clearly unbiblical, but just because they appear to get some things correct, does not invalidate a truth taught in Scripture. We are living in the last days. Most have a form of godliness and they deny the power thereof. They are lovers of pleasure more than they are lovers of God (See: 2 Timothy 3:1-9). Nobody today believes we really need to live holy for the Lord. Holy living (by the power of God) is just optional and for many it is impossible. They all say today we are saved by having a belief alone in Jesus. But honestly, they have to ignore whole swafs of New Testament Scripture in order to make that kind of belief work.
 
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We are born into sin just as a fish is born into water.
All are wet, and not one is dry.

Jesus forgives us that we swim in this condition and even forget where we are and embrace it. (Sin)

Jesus is constantly forgiving us our sin nature and enjoying this life.
Not that we can't enjoy it, because we know our destination.
We can walk through "mud" and still whistle a tune because we know we are saved.
Being a believer only changes our view of sin, not it's presence.
The apostles didn't stop drinking wine, they stopped drinking wine to forget their life. Then they drank wine to remember Jesus sacrifice. Sin is not gone. It's just forgiven and understood now.

On August 4th, 2009, 48 year old George Sodini shot 9 people in a Pittsburg Pennsylvania health club.

George Sodini, mass murderer and professed Christian Eternal Securist wrote; “Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”

In other words, George Sodini thought that he was saved in the same way you believe. He believed all his sins are paid for despite his sin. Yet, George murdered a bunch of people and took his own life and wrote in his own suicide letter that he was secure in his salvation by believing alone in Jesus.

Source used:
GEORGE SODINI
 
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We are born into sin just as a fish is born into water.
All are wet, and not one is dry.

Jesus forgives us that we swim in this condition and even forget where we are and embrace it. (Sin)

Jesus is constantly forgiving us our sin nature and enjoying this life.
Not that we can't enjoy it, because we know our destination.
We can walk through "mud" and still whistle a tune because we know we are saved.
Being a believer only changes our view of sin, not it's presence.
The apostles didn't stop drinking wine, they stopped drinking wine to forget their life. Then they drank wine to remember Jesus sacrifice. Sin is not gone. It's just forgiven and understood now.

I believe we are born with the stain of the sin of Adam, but if a baby dies, they go to Heaven by Christ's sacrifice because they have not knowingly have broken God's laws. If the baby grows up and they sin, then they are obligated to accept Jesus as their Savior. The condition of salvation has changed. They are no longer an innocent baby anymore. The same is true if a believer then is under the responsibility of entering the Sanctification Process after they are saved by God's grace and mercy. But of course, this is entirely foreign to you. You see such a thing as works salvation and or as something bad. You believe a saint can do evil and be saved. I am saying that we have to do good, and you call that bad. The Bible talks about this. See Isaiah 5:20.
 
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FYI I think my thinking on this issue may have been a be a little off my whole life. I still stand by the fact that there are no “lesser” sins in that all sin meets the threshold of death wages and separation from God. In addition, all sin except rejecting the gospel is readily forgiven and washed white as snow through repentance and accessing Christ’s blood through at salvation. However, the “all sin is the same” statement is an oversimplification because I’m seeing the scripture clearly painting a picture that there are significant differences in consequences and affects, and it seems God reacts differently to some sin (pharisees etc) than others. Therefore this discussion is more nuanced than I thought and certainly moreso than most Christians think on either side. I’m afraid it’s one that can’t be “solved” until we leave this world

Please carefully examine the points I made in the OP. Nobody who is honest with these points in Scripture can say that all sins are the same to God.
 
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While it is true that to reject the Lord is one of the greater sins in this life, that does not mean all other sins are of the same degree in God's eyes.

This does however, mean that they are all the same:

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Because,
we are born into a sin condition:


Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Ecclesiastes 7:20
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

This began after Adam:

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

But, through faith, we can accept forgiveness and therefore accept the standing of being clean in God's eyes.


 
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