Is land restoration a part of the new covenant?

jgr said:

Did you? It's a critical question for a racialized dogma.

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Apparently you did not take the time to ask them since you are so concerned about DNA percentages.

Deuteronomy 32:36-42 The Lord will judge His people and have compassion on His servants, for He will see that their strength has gone, all are affected. He will say: where are your false gods, those false idols in which you trusted? Let them be your protection! See now that I, the Lord, am HE – beside Me there is no other God. I hold the power of life and death. I swear: as I live forever that I will sharpen My flashing sword and set My hand to judgement to punish My enemies, then My vengeance will fall upon My foes. I shall make My arrows drunk with blood, My sword will devour flesh, the blood of the slain and the captives along with the enemy leaders.

Deuteronomy 32:43 Rejoice with His people, you nations, for the Lord will avenge the blood of His servants. He will take vengeance on His enemies and punish all those who hate Him and will cleanse His peoples Land. Jeremiah 12:14

Deuteronomy 33:1-5 This is the blessing that Moses pronounced on the Israelites before his death. The Lord came from Sinai, He appeared and shone out from the South. With Him were multitudes of His holy people, streaming along at His right hand. Truly, He loves His people and blesses His holy ones. They receive instruction, the Law that Moses gave us, as our possession for all Israel. Then, when all the tribal leaders assembled, a leader arose in the Land. Reference: Revised English Bible. Some verses abridged.


The Lord will judge his people and have compassion on His servants. His servants; now every faithful Christian, they are gathered from every race, nation and language. Psalms 107, Romans 9:24-26, Revelation 7:9

their strength has gone – Isaiah 17:4-6 & 9 On that Day Israel [now the western nations] will lose their strength and prosperity. On that day, strong cities will be abandoned, like those of your enemies of old that were deserted at the Israelites approach. Cities will be uninhabitable – no food, power or water.

those false idols in which you trusted – people today put their faith in materialism, atheism or a ‘rapture’ out of trouble, etc. Micah 5:10-15

My vengeance will fall upon My foes – The great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, prophesied over 100 times in the Bible. It is the next action of the Lord on earth, which results in the ‘cleansing of the Land’. By the means of His ‘flashing sword ‘, an explosion of the suns surface. Isaiah 30:26a

the enemy leaders – As the enemy leaders prepare their weapons, Isaiah 21:2 – Elam & Media = Iran, ‘they are swept away by a whirlwind ‘. Habakkuk 3:14, Psalms 83:13-17

The Lord appears to His people – The Lord’s Right Hand, that is Jesus, Psalms 110, will lead ‘the multitude of His people’, into the promised Land in the same way as He did for the ancient Israelites. 1 Corinthians 10:4, Jeremiah 31:8-9, Isaiah 49:8-11

they receive instruction – True prophets and priests will teach them the right Laws and the correct ordinances. Isaiah 66:21, Malachi 2:7

Then a leader arose – Proof that all this happens before the Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

Contenders Edge said:

You're the one who dragged DNA percentages into the matter.

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Isn't that the criterion that you espouse?

You refer repeatedly to "bloodline". Isn't that DNA?

Contenders Edge said:

Apparently you did not take the time to ask them since you are so concerned about DNA percentages.

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Why do you defer to some organization, instead of to Scripture?

Is what you espouse not found in Scripture?

keras said:

The allegory of the 'dry bones' is referring to our present state of Spiritual 'dryness'.
As Ezekiel 37:11-14 says: .....I shall put My Spirit into you and you will come into life, then I shall settle you into all of the holy Land. Joel 2:27-29, Romans 9:24-26

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That is not the interpretation given to the prophet Ezekiel. It was applied to the condition of his people in his day. From that point on, God told Him exactly about their restoration that was destined to take place and is already taking place, and will be made complete when the Messiah returns.

keras said:

The Jewish State of Israel, founded in 1948, was led by atheist communists, they organized the people into kibbutzim; basically communes. Today, they are more capitalistic, but remain God and Jesus rejecting.
It is your comment that is 'absolutely preposterous', as you show how biased and brainwashed about the Jews, that you are.

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Israel was re-established as a nation. In your insistence that the nation of Israel is something fairly new is not only a rejection of history but a rejection of scripture which tell us the history of Israel.
And it should be no surprise to anyone who has a proper understanding of prophecy that the people of Israel as a whole will not come to call upon the Messiah until their darkest hour.

keras said:

Incredible!
Don't you even read the Prophesies? There are over 20 plain unfulfilled prophesies that say Judah will be Judged and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27 proves it.
Judah lost any claim to the Kingdom when they rejected Jesus. Matthew 21:43
Of course you must reject any Bible verse that contradicts your false beliefs. Sad really.

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I've read the prophesies and instead of predicting Israel's destruction, they predict her redemption, which will take place after all of the unrepentant are purged from her and while only a remnant of the nation will be saved, the prophet Zechariah tells us the size of that remnant (Zech. 13:8-9) which will be large enough to continue abiding as a viable nation and people and recover from the losses that they will sustain during the darkest time in history that is yet to come upon the earth.

There are no Bible passages that are in contradicting of the beliefs I hold to which you have erroneously declared to be false, and while it is true that due to their rejection of Christ, the Jews did lose their claim to the Kingdom, He also left the door open to them to repent (Mt. 23:39) and if they do, Paul also said that God would graft them back into the tree (Rom. 11:23-24) from which they were cut off due to their unbelief and if they upon repentance are grafted back in, then the Kingdom can also be restored to them as well.

To deny the eventual repentance of the Jewish people is to deny the words of the Apostle Paul who was confident that his nation would one day be saved. (Rom. 11:26)

keras said:

The whole chapter of Revelation 7 takes place on earth. the first three verses set the location and it never changes. It is only those with another agenda who insert 'heaven' into the text.

It is in the Spiritual realm where God resides. Which can be seen from on earth if God wills it, as Ezekiel 1:1 and Stephen saw. Acts 7:56

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That is a misreading of Revelation chapter 7 as the first eight verses are about the sealing of 144,000 men out of all the tribes of Israel before the judgments upon the world commence. The rest of the chapter shifts towards a heavenly scene involving saints from all over the world standing before the throne of Christ along with the heavenly host.

jgr said:

Isn't that the criterion that you espouse?

You refer repeatedly to "bloodline". Isn't that DNA?

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How does scripture define ancestry?

jgr said:

Why do you defer to some organization, instead of to Scripture?

Is what you espouse not found in Scripture?

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Is scripture supposed to be a science textbook?

Contenders Edge said:

To deny the eventual repentance of the Jewish people is to deny the words of the Apostle Paul who was confident that his nation would one day be saved. (Rom. 11:26)

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The nation that Paul says will be saved, Romans 11:26, is Israel, not Judah. Although Judah is [was] part of all Israel, they have lost that status and the true Israel today is people from every race, nation and language; faithful Christians. Galatians 3:26-29

The rest of your post is pure opinion, soon to be shown as wrong.

Contenders Edge said:

Is scripture supposed to be a science textbook?

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Did God exclude all true science, which He authored, from Scripture?

Contenders Edge said:

How does scripture define ancestry?

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As utterly without significance, relevance, or merit; spiritually.

jgr said:

Did God exclude all true science, which He authored, from Scripture?

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No, but the scriptures were not intended to give the technical detailed scientific analysis that you are looking for which is why you need to consult a geneticist.

jgr said:

As utterly without significance, relevance, or merit; spiritually.

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But the spiritual sense is not what is being debated.

keras said:

The nation that Paul says will be saved, Romans 11:26, is Israel, not Judah. Although Judah is [was] part of all Israel, they have lost that status and the true Israel today is people from every race, nation and language; faithful Christians. Galatians 3:26-29

The rest of your post is pure opinion, soon to be shown as wrong.

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When Paul said all of Israel would be saved, he also meant Judah as well. He made no distinction between the two and they have not lost the status of being the true Israel, as Paul also says that in spite of their rejection of the Gospel and their blindness, they still remained the "beloved" for the sake of their ancestors who loved the Lord. (Rom. 11:28).

The only instance in which the Church is ever called Israel is in the metaphorical sense and for the purpose of making the distinction between the Israelite by blood and the Israelite in spirit to make clear that merely being a Jew by blood is not enough to be saved and favored of God, but never is the Church ever officially given the title of Israel. That doctrine is based upon a twisting of Paul's distinction between the Jew in spirit and the Jew by blood which gave birth to anti-Semitic doctrines in the second century but which were never in the heart of the preceding Apostolic generation and which never should have been taught to the saints who were made to harbor a hatred towards the Jews that never should have been allowed, but should have been strongly opposed.

As for the rest of my post, it is not pure opinion, but is taught by scriptures which you have either ignored or attempted to allegorize in order to support your beliefs and which will be vindicated by their fulfillment.

Contenders Edge said:

But the spiritual sense is not what is being debated.

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The things of the Spirit of God are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

If you're not debating the spiritual sense, you're not exercising spiritual discernment about things of the Spirit of God.

Contenders Edge said:

No, but the scriptures were not intended to give the technical detailed scientific analysis that you are looking for which is why you need to consult a geneticist.

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There's no technical detailed scientific analysis in a simple number. Scripture is replete with numbers throughout.

jgr said:

The things of the Spirit of God are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

If you're not debating the spiritual sense, you're not exercising spiritual discernment about things of the Spirit of God.

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What is being debated is whether the promise of land restoration still applies to the nation and people of Israel, not salvation-related promises which all of those in Christ receive.

jgr said:

There's no technical detailed scientific analysis in a simple number. Scripture is replete with numbers throughout.

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But you are insisting on a scientific answer from a non-scientific source.

Contenders Edge said:

But you are insisting on a scientific answer from a non-scientific source.

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The God who is the Author of all true science is a non-scientific source?

Try reading Job 38-41.

Packed with Divine biological and geophysical science.

Providing a physical DNA threshold would be less than trivial for Him.

Contenders Edge said:

What is being debated is whether the promise of land restoration still applies to the nation and people of Israel, not salvation-related promises which all of those in Christ receive.

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What is being debated is whether any promise of God is in any way dependent upon Jewish or any other physical DNA; or whether it is solely dependent upon spiritual DNA.

It is a question which cannot be answered without spiritual discernment.

jgr said:

The God who is the Author of all true science is a non-scientific source?

Try reading Job 38-41.

Packed with Divine biological and geophysical science.

Providing a physical DNA threshold would be less than trivial for Him.

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While it is true that God has a lot to say about nature and His creation in His Word and which no scientific discipline has ever contradicted, but instead has vindicated the authority of scripture, the reason why God gave us the written Word is to tell us about Himself, about ourselves, our relation to Him, what He expects of us, and how we receive redemption and forgiveness when we fall short of His glory, which we all have by the way. It was not His intent to give us a detailed map of the genome which you apparently are expecting scripture to provide because if He did that, the world would be smothered in all of the paper that it would take to write it down.