Gog & Magog

Andrewn said:

I don't understand your timeline. Usually, Premils say that Armageddon takes place at beginning of the Millennium and G/M at its end.

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Welcome to Christian forums and expect anything!

Andrewn said:

I don't understand your timeline. Usually, Premils say that Armageddon takes place at beginning of the Millennium and G/M at its end.

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That Gog and Magog is found in Revelation 20 at the end of the millennium, all premills recognize the term is there. But what it means is not the Ezekiel 38/39 event. It is referring to the
nations that were part of Gog/Magog a thousand years earlier.

Andrewn said:

I don't understand your timeline. Usually, Premils say that Armageddon takes place at beginning of the Millennium and G/M at its end.

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If some Premils say that, I don't know why they would. I tend to agree with you on this one, actually. Armageddon and G/M are one and the same.

I disagree with Douggg that the G/M war is 7 years earlier than Armageddon, yet I somewhat understand why he might think that.

Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

It would place this 7 years in verse 9 post the 2nd coming if the G/M war and Armageddon are the same event.

It seems pretty clear to me, regardless that Ezekiel 39:17-22 is mentioned after Gog and his multitude are all dead and buried, that verse 4, meaning Gog and his multitude's fate, is also meaning Ezekiel 39:17-22.

Ezekiel 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel(Ezekiel 39:4)----even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel(Ezekiel 39:17)

I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured(Ezekiel 39:4)----Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you(Ezekiel 39:17)

It can't get any clearer than this. There are not two different battles in Ezekiel 39, where one takes place earlier than the other one. There is only one battle in this chapter.

HARK! said:

In short, they claim that Gog is a principality, second to Satan; and that he sits in the area of Russia.

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What else? They produced 3 videos on the topic of Gog/Magog.

The God Culture group say that modern Israel is not true Israel. They don't know prophecy of Isaiah 66:7-9 of the nation born in a single day Isaiah 66:7-9. They are clueless.

DavidPT said:

It can't get any clearer than this. There are not two different battles in Ezekiel 39, where one takes place earlier than the other one. There is only one battle in this chapter.

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They are two separate events, separated by 7 years. Here is the proof from the text that Gog/Magog and Armageddon are separate.


In Ezekiel 38:
8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

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In Revelation 12:14

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

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When Armageddon takes place, part of Israel will have fled into the wilderness. The remainder will be persecuted by the dragon, as the great tribulation take place over the course of 1335 days.

That is a completely different set of cirucmstances Israel is in which precede the pre-Gog/Magog attack.

pre Gog/Magog - safely, at rest.
pre Armageddon - in great tribulation, persecuted.

They two are not the same event.

Douggg said:

They are two separate events, separated by 7 years. Here is the proof from the text that Gog/Magog and Armageddon are separate.


In Ezekiel 38:
8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

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In Revelation 12:14

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

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When Armageddon takes place, part of Israel will have fled into the wilderness. The remainder will be persecuted by the dragon, as the great tribulation take place over the course of 1335 days.

That is a completely different set of cirucmstances Israel is in which precede the pre-Gog/Magog attack.

pre Gog/Magog - safely, at rest.
pre Armageddon - in great tribulation, persecuted.

They two are not the same event.

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What you need to show, in Ezekiel 39 itself, how Ezekiel 39:4 is not meaning Ezekiel 39:17-22. IOW, if you think there are two wars in Ezekiel 39, then, point both of them out in that same chapter.

DavidPT said:

What you need to show, in Ezekiel 39 itself, how Ezekiel 39:4 is not meaning Ezekiel 39:17-22. IOW, if you think there are two wars in Ezekiel 39, then, point both of them out in that same chapter.

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Ezekiel 39:4 is the feast on Gog's army, it indicates in the text from verse 1. It does not indicate the feast is on Gog's army in Ezekiel 39:17-20.

Before the feast on the dead bodies in Ezekiel 39:17-20, Gog's army has already been buried and is in a mass grave, in Ezekiel 39:11-16.


11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.

15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.

16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.
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And why isn't this rationale valid to you, to show that Gog/Magog and Armageddon is not the same event?

pre Gog/Magog - Israel dwelling safely, at rest.
pre Armageddon - Israel in great tribulation, persecuted.

Andrewn said:

I'm glad you do. But in Rev 20:7-10, the war of G&M is said to at end of the Millennium. How do you interpret this?

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The question is, is the Gog and his armies mentioned in Revelation 20 the very same Gog and his multitude that ends up dead and buried in Ezekiel 39?

There is a rather interesting portion in the beginning of chapter 39.

Ezekiel 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

What should one make of this part----and leave but the sixth part of thee?

Apparently there are several thoughts on how to understand this. Some of those thoughts can be found at the following link. Ezekiel 39:2 Commentaries: and I will turn you around, drive you on, take you up from the remotest parts of the north and bring you against the mountains of Israel.

I'm not one that relies on Commentaries, such as these, in order to try and understand some of these things. Yet Commentaries like this can be useful, nonetheless. Just because they are Commentators doesn't mean they are never wrong about things. And the fact, even these Commentators don't always agree with one another about things, and since not everyone can be right if they are all coming to different conclusions, someone has to be wrong then. Thus why I don't heavily rely on Commentaries such as these, in order to understand Scriptures in the Bible.


Maybe because I'm Premil, maybe that is why, why I favor this one---

"others, I will kill five of six, and leave but the sixth part of thee"--- Ezekiel 39:2 Commentaries: and I will turn you around, drive you on, take you up from the remotest parts of the north and bring you against the mountains of Israel.


And if that is a valid way to understand that, that might explain how Ezekiel 38-39 is meaning in this age before the 2nd coming, and how Revelation 20:7-10 is meaning in the next age post the 2nd coming.

Andrewn said:

The 1335 days are 1335 years. Jerusalem fell to Islamic troops in 637 AD and was regained by Israel in 1967. 637 + 1335 = 1972. Jerusalem was declared capital of Israel in 1980.

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Andrewn, the 1335 days have to be in relationship to when the Abomination of Desolation is setup in the temple. There was no temple in 637 AD. And still isn't. A temple of some sort has to be built before the 1335th day prophecy can be fulfilled.

HARK! said:

The God Culture proves this point with scripture, history and maps, in their Lost Tribe Series.

Here is a very short summary:

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In your words. I don't want to be talking to a video.

HARK! said:

Just agreeing with your statement.

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Well, they are wrong about Israel over there, not being true Israel. Israel a nation again May 14, 1948, fulfilling Isaiah 66:7-9.

7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

Douggg said:

Well, they are wrong about Israel over there, not being true Israel. Israel a nation again May 14, 1948, fulfilling Isaiah 66:7-9.

7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

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This is error, the Jewish State of Israel took 50 years to be birthed.
Which 'day' was it 'born, 14th May 1948 - when it was declared, or the 11the May 1949 when it was ratified by the UN?

You obviously have not read Isaiah 66:7-14 properly, as that prophecy simply cannot apply to the current nation in only a small part of the holy land.

To just quote Isaiah 66:7-9, is devious, as verses 8-14 are an integral part of that future prophecy.
That new nation will be Beulah, as Isaiah 62:1-5 tells us. Comprised of all the faithful people of God. Romans 9:24-26

HARK! said:

(CLV) Re 11:8
And their corpses will be at the square of the great city which, spiritually, is being called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord, also, was crucified.

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Jerusalem will be under occupation at that time in the future by the beast and his followers, with the Jews in captivity just as in days of Egypt. And the beast and his followers will be receptive of the two witnesses in like manner as the two angels were received in the days of Sodom.