My studies with the Chronological Bible----continued

Gregorikos

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Genesis 4:3 (NKJV)
And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the Lord. Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering, but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.

Abel's offering was the first of his increase. Cain's was in the process of time. We see the principle of first fruits over and over in the Bible.
Exodus 13:2,12-13
Exodus 22:29
Exodus 23:19
Exodus 34:26
Deuteronomy 26:1-10
Proverbs 3:9-10
Joshua 6:17-23 (First city conquered, was given entirely to God)


First fruits is a big deal.
 
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coffee4u

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Likewise, God gain instructions for offerings other than animals (Leviticus 2:1), so the problem wasn't necessarily that Cain didn't offer animal.

The penalty for murder is death, yet Cain was not given the death penalty, which indicates that he was not found guilty of murder. Rather, his concern for being killed by an avenger and with him being given protection shows that he was treated in a way that parallels God's instructions in Deuteronomy 19 for how to treat someone who is guilty of accidental manslaughter.

This is long before the law on offerings or murder was given so it has no relevance in this case.
 
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Soyeong

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This is long before the law on offerings or murder was given so it has no relevance in this case.

The way to act in accordance with God's righteousness is straightforwardly based on God's righteousness, not on any particular covenant, so it has existed from the beginning and will exist for as long as God's righteousness is eternal. The existence of sin requires there to be a standard of what is and is not sin, and that standard is God's law. In Genesis 4:7, God told Cain that sin was crouching at the door, which implies that he already knew what sin was and that he must have been instructed in that regard.
 
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coffee4u

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The way to act in accordance with God's righteousness is straightforwardly based on God's righteousness, not on any particular covenant, so it has existence from the beginning for as long as God's righteousness has been eternal. The existence of sin requires there to be a standard of what is and is not sin, and that standard is God's law. In Genesis 4:7, God told Cain that sin was crouching at the door, which implies that he already knew what sin was and that he must have been instructed in that regard.

Yes, but you were quoting the written laws and they had not yet come into being, so Cain was dealt with differently.

Romans 5
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.


Not to say he wasn't punished, but it wasn't under the law of Leviticus.

1 John 3:12
not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.

He knew what sin was since God told him it was crouching at his door and he should master it, but he didn't have the Mosaic law. At this point in time there was no penalty of death for murder.
 
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JackRT

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I think it worthwhile to consider that the story of Cain and Able is of the conflict between two very different ways of life --- the nomadic herdsman and the settled farmer. In 1000BC when this was written this would have been a very real societal problem. We see this same problem arising in the settlement of the American west and it is even a part of the older western movies. The author may have been trying to send a message in his or her narrative. It is not a message that is easily understood in the modern age.
 
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Soyeong

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Yes, but you were quoting the written laws and they had not yet come into being, so Cain was dealt with differently.

Romans 5
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.


Not to say he wasn't punished, but it wasn't under the law of Leviticus.

1 John 3:12
not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.

He knew what sin was since God told him it was crouching at his door and he should master it, but he didn't have the Mosaic law. At this point in time there was no penalty of death for murder.

The laws are God's righteousness and God's righteousness has always existed. There is no point in saying Cain's deeds were evil while his brother's deeds were righteous if there wasn't a standard of what is righteous of which Cain was in violation. Sin can't exist apart from a standard of what is and is not sin, but people can still sin by violating that standard before they knew about that standard, which which case their sin is not charged against them, though Cain clearly knew about that standard. Cain may not have been given an identical set of laws as the Mosaic Law, but any two sets of instructions for how to act in accordance with God's eternal righteousness and how to refrain from sin are going to be the same in type and vary only in the degree of thoroughness, and there are many other examples of Mosaic laws being followed prior to Sinai.

For example, in Genesis 7:2, Noah was told what to do about clean and unclean animals without being told how to tell the difference, and in 8:20, he knew to offer a clean animal, so he must have been given instructions in that regard. Likewise, in 6:8-9, it says that Noah found grace in the eyes of God and that he was a righteous man, so he was trained by grace in how to do what was righteous in accordance with God's law and he was a righteous man because he obeyed through faith. Alternatively, the world was judged with the Flood for their wickedness, and in order for sin to be charged against them, they must have been given God's law. Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah were judged for their lawless deeds (2 Peter 2:6-8). In Genesis 39:9, Joseph knew that it was a sin to commit adultery.
 
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GaveMeJoy

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Cain brought his offerings with the wrong motives and Abel with the right ones.

Remember God is interested in the heart not outward appearances.
1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

We know that Cain's heart was not right because of what he went and did directly after that. Decent people no matter how angry don't go and bash their brother's head in and leave them dead in a field.


You can also see his attitude was bad when he talked directly to God.
9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?”
He said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?”
He had just committed murder, he wasn't running in fear but lied to God with attitude. These all show us what Cain's true character was like, no matter how nice his offering might have looked.
Imagine being proud enough to try to lie to GOD like you are talking to GOD. And you lie. It’s unbelievable
 
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coffee4u

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Imagine being proud enough to try to lie to GOD like you are talking to GOD. And you lie. It’s unbelievable

I've often wondered how he could have the nerve, like no fear at all, just a bald-faced lie and then attitude.
 
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GaveMeJoy

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I've often wondered how he could have the nerve, like no fear at all, just a bald-faced lie and then attitude.
Well he’s been thinking about it for about 10,000 years and it’s been quite unpleasant
 
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I started studying a Chronological bible recently and was reminded of this scripture.
"3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast."
I don't understand why God treated Cain as he did and wonder the outcome had he showed the same love to Cain as he did Abel.
Do you understand why God rejected Cain and his gift?
from what i understand cain didn't offer the best he had and abel did.
 
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ilovejcsog

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Genesis
"6 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

"4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."
Nephilim- giants or fallen.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, my copy made my comments bold also.
The first paragraph infers that the sons of God were not human beings? I don't know how to highlight so this might be tough to follow. What were the sons of God if they weren't humans? Is it referring to Adam? Sons is plural? Or are they Adams sons? Or neither?

I don't know what the 2nd paragraph is trying to say.
Thanks for any help:)
 
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coffee4u

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Genesis
"6 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

"4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."
Nephilim- giants or fallen.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, my copy made my comments bold also.
The first paragraph infers that the sons of God were not human beings? I don't know how to highlight so this might be tough to follow. What were the sons of God if they weren't humans? Is it referring to Adam? Sons is plural? Or are they Adams sons? Or neither?

I don't know what the 2nd paragraph is trying to say.
Thanks for any help:)

There is a lot of discussion and debate over the Nephilim but I tend to think they could have been children between women and fallen angels. Perhaps they possessed men to do this.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

They are mentioned twice
Numbers 13:33
We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."


 
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DamianWarS

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I started studying a Chronological bible recently and was reminded of this scripture.
"3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast."
I don't understand why God treated Cain as he did and wonder the outcome had he showed the same love to Cain as he did Abel.
Do you understand why God rejected Cain and his gift?
it is to foreshadow the sacrificial system of the law, to stress to the Hebrews what is proper and what is not by using this mnemonic device... "Don't be like Cain! be like Abel..." The names even set it up, Cain means a spear in the sense of striking fast where Abel means a whisp of breath or fleeting moment. Juxtaposing these two characters together Abel doesn't seem to have a chance.

Now [fleeting-breath] kept flocks, and [striking-spear] worked the soil. In the course of time [striking-spear] brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. And [fleeting-breath] also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on [fleeting-breath] and his offering, but on [striking-spear] and his offering he did not look with favor. So [striking-spear] was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Then the Lord said to [striking-spear], “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

Now [striking-spear] said to his brother [fleeting-breath], “Let’s go out to the field.”...

This is how it reads in Hebrew... it's not hard to guess what happens next.
 
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ChetSinger

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I started studying a Chronological bible recently and was reminded of this scripture.
"3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast."
I don't understand why God treated Cain as he did and wonder the outcome had he showed the same love to Cain as he did Abel.
Do you understand why God rejected Cain and his gift?
We're not specifically told. But it does mention the high quality of Abel's sacrifice while not saying the same of Cain's. So perhaps quality was the issue. I'll be facetious: for all we know, Cain raided his compost pile to produce his sacrifice. He isn't portrayed as a class act.
 
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ChetSinger

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Genesis
"6 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

"4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."
Nephilim- giants or fallen.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, my copy made my comments bold also.
The first paragraph infers that the sons of God were not human beings? I don't know how to highlight so this might be tough to follow. What were the sons of God if they weren't humans? Is it referring to Adam? Sons is plural? Or are they Adams sons? Or neither?

I don't know what the 2nd paragraph is trying to say.
Thanks for any help:)
You're welcome. In the future, it's typical to start a new thread for a new subject. That way you'll come to the notice of people who may be especially knowledgeable of it.

In early Jewish and Christian belief the "sons of God" are a high-ranking class of angels. They are like us in that they have free will and can be given authority.

They are called specifically "sons of God" in four places:
  • Genesis 6 - They mate with human women and produce very tall sons.
  • Deuteronomy 32 - They are given authority over the nations of men after the rebellion at Babel.
  • Job 1 - They present themselves before God in the heavenly court.
  • Job 38 - They shout for joy as they watch God create the earth.
They also appear in other places without being so labeled, such as in Psalm 82 (the "gods") and Daniel 10 (the princes of Greece and Persia).

Some of them eventually turned against God and in the NT are called "principalities" in Paul's letters.

Btw, this is the tip of a ...huge... subject. Entire books are written about these beings. I have some links if you want to pursue this.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Yes, but you were quoting the written laws and they had not yet come into being, so Cain was dealt with differently.

Romans 5
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.




Sin is the transgression of the law (Torah...instructions). If there was sin from Adam onward there were also instructions given...and broken
 
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coffee4u

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Sin is the transgression of the law (Torah...instructions). If there was sin from Adam onward there were also instructions given...and broken

There may well have been, but this was not the law as written down in Leviticus.

Romans 5:13
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
This was before the law was given.

Leviticus 24:17-21
17 “‘Anyone who takes the life of a human being is to be put to death.
Cain was not under this law which is why Cain was not put to death.
 
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ilovejcsog

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You're welcome. In the future, it's typical to start a new thread for a new subject. That way you'll come to the notice of people who may be especially knowledgeable of it.

In early Jewish and Christian belief the "sons of God" are a high-ranking class of angels. They are like us in that they have free will and can be given authority.

They are called specifically "sons of God" in four places:
  • Genesis 6 - They mate with human women and produce very tall sons.
  • Deuteronomy 32 - They are given authority over the nations of men after the rebellion at Babel.
  • Job 1 - They present themselves before God in the heavenly court.
  • Job 38 - They shout for joy as they watch God create the earth.
They also appear in other places without being so labeled, such as in Psalm 82 (the "gods") and Daniel 10 (the princes of Greece and Persia).

Some of them eventually turned against God and in the NT are called "principalities" in Paul's letters.

Btw, this is the tip of a ...huge... subject. Entire books are written about these beings. I have some links if you want to pursue this.
I wanted a thread that I could ask questions as I studied the bible and thought about whether I should start a new thread every time I had a question. I guess next time I will but these few responses have answered my questions. Yours was especially understandable and I thank you.
Wow, a lot to take in on the sons of God. I wonder why they weren't introduced in the first 6 days as what they were. So we are really descendants of Noah not Adam. Makes me wonder what the original 'humans' were like. It seems like they are mentioned as if God didn't create them.
 
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