What Happened to Magic?

Mathetes66

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"Satan is a angel...angels are a different type of created being with great powers. He (Lucifer) was the beginning of sin .... he sinned in heaven. He and 1/3 of his minions were cast to the earth after creation of man. Satan then deceived Eve who disobeyed God and Adam also disobeyed God and thus Adam gave up his kingship/dominion of earth .... giving it to Satan ... and sin entered the world through Adam & Eve.

As I understand Scripture, I would respectfully differ with you on your statement above. And here is my understanding & reasoning as I search the Scriptures.

Lucifer or Satan or the devil was not the beginning of sin; Adam was. Sin & death & corruption never entered God's creation until Adam sinned.

Romans 5:12ff Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world & death through sin & thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—For if by the one man’s offense many died--For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation--For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one--Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation--For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners...

I Cor 15:21,22 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

Ezek 28:12-15 You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom & perfect in beauty. YOU WERE IN EDEN, THE GARDEN OF GOD; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz & diamond, beryl, onyx & jasper, sapphire, emerald & carbuncle & crafted in gold were your settings & your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. You were an anointed guardian cherub. I PLACED YOU; you were on THE HOLY MOUNTAIN OF GOD; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you.

Isaiah 14:12-15 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the ground, O destroyer of nations. You said in your heart: “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God. I will sit on the mount of assembly, in the far reaches of the north. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.” But you will be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit.

John 8:44 You are of your father the devil & your will is to do your father’s DESIRES. He was a MURDERER SINCE the beginning & does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar & the father of lies.

James 1:15 Then after DESIRE has conceived, it gives birth to SIN & sin, when it is full-grown, GIVES BIRTH TO DEATH.

Lucifer had desires to make himself like the Most High, to raise his throne above all the others stars or angels, to ascend to the highest heavens & seat himself on the holy mountain of God, on the mount of assembly of all angelic hosts, so that he could receive worship like God.

Eve had desires in the garden, to touch the forbidden fruit, to eat it & desires that it would make her wise, like God.


Genesis 1:26,27a Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, TO HAVE DOMINION (RULE) OVER the fish of the sea & the birds of the air, over the livestock & over all the earth itself & every creature that crawls upon it.” So God created man in His own image...

Genesis 2:15-20 Then the LORD God took the man & placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate & keep it. And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”

18The LORD God also said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make for him a suitable helper.” And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field & every bird of the air & He brought them to the man to see what he would name each one.

And whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to ALL the livestock, to the birds of the air & to every beast of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found.

Gen 1:31 And God looked upon all that He had made & indeed, it was very good. And there was evening & there was morning—the sixth day.

Gen 2:1-3 Thus the heavens & the earth were finished & all the host of them. And on the 7th day God ended His work which He had made & He rested on the 7th day from all His work which He had made. And God blessed the 7th day & sanctified it; because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created & made.

Gen 3:6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food & PLEASING to the eyes, & that it was DESIRABLE for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit & ATE it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her & HE ATE IT.

Gen 3:13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” “The serpent DECEIVED me,” she replied, “& I ate.”

From all these Scriptures, one can piece together what happened since the beginning concerning Adam, Eve & the serpent of old, the devil, Satan.

Up through the 7th day, God finished his creation of the heavens & the earth and all its hosts, sanctifying the 7th day & seeing that everything He had made was VERY GOOD.

No sin, no death, no corruption was in the world at that time. It was all very good. Scripture mentions in Job that while God was forming & filling the earth for habitation, the 'morning stars,' the 'sons of God,' the angelic beings were singing & shouting for joy & that included Lucifer. This is a common Hebrew parallelism.

Job 38:4-7 Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the measuring line upon it? On what were its foundations set, or who laid its cornerstone while the morning stars sang together & all the sons of God shouted for joy?

There was no rebellion yet, no sin, no death, no corruption. Yet Lucifer saw God's omnipotent power in creating all things.

We see that God created the Garden of Eden & placed Adam in it to cultivate & keep it. This was before Eve was created. This was when God gave His first commandment about the two trees in the midst of the garden.

This was when God also gave Adam dominion or authority for him to rule over God's creation. He interacted with all the creatures & named them. It was only after Eve was created, that the commandment to be fruitful & multiply & fill the earth with people was given to both of them.

Psalm 104:4 Who makes His angels spirits; His ministers a flaming fire.

Lucifer or shining one or son of the dawn or morning star, was covered with all kinds of precious & semi-precious stones & was dazzling; thus the name. But he did not have any kind of dominion given to him that was given to Adam. Lucifer, an anointed cherub, was simply placed on the mountain of God in the heavens & in the midst of the stones of fire he walked. He was the guardian angel there.

Isaiah mentioned in a vision he saw into the heavenlies & thought he was undone before the holiness of YHWH of hosts. A seraph took a burning coal/rock from the altar & touched his lips & his iniquity was atoned.

Yet God gave angelic beings the ability to travel in the heavens & on the earth. In Ezekiel 28, we have a parallel passage concerning Lucifer. Here his dazzling appearance is mentioned & also mentioned is that he was in the Garden of God, the Garden of Eden!

While in the garden, he was still dazzling & it was still part of God's very good creation. He was there when Adam was there, alone. He saw God give Adam his dominion. Then Eve was created. He watched the first marriage & saw the love Adam & Eve had for God & for one another. They walked in the garden with God; Lucifer walked among the stones of fire.

He was Lucifer, a good angel or cherub & he was in the Garden. The Garden of Eden wasn’t made until day six, so that shoots the gap theory full of holes right there. At the END of day six, God said that everything was VERY GOOD. So Satan had not fallen yet; he did not fall until after the creation. Those who say that Satan fell from heaven & wiped out some pre-Adamic civilization or brought corruption are placing death before sin.

Angels do not marry nor are they given in marriage. (Luke 20:35,36; Matt 22:30; Mark 12:25). Lucifer also knew of God's command for both Adam & Eve to be fruitful & multiply & fill the earth & subdue it. They would have progeny.

Then we see the process of how sin actually happens in James 1:15. It starts with desires in hearts. At a point in time, those desires are then acted upon, being conceived & giving birth to sin. And sin, when finished results in death.

Lucifer, the morning star, appears to have reasoned in his heart, that if he got Adam & Eve to follow him instead of God, that their dominion would become his, which in a sense it did. Thus, he hoped, they would then worship him & not God. Then his desires of being a god like God would come to pass. It becomes apparent that in the angelic discussions, he must have talked about these things & deceived a third of the angelic host.

The plan was then put into action. It appears when Lucifer talks with Eve, she is not shocked nor surprised at his being in the Garden of Eden, nor his talking with her. He undoubtedly has watched Eve & her standing before the tree of the knowledge of good & evil or overheard her conversation with Adam concerning the meaning of God's commandment about the trees in the middle of the garden.

He has waited for the opportune time (Luke 4:13). Her desires & dissatisfaction with God become evident when Lucifer questions her, to find out what her thoughts were, on God's commandment & any thoughts she may have toward God.

These come out & Lucifer is persuasive in his cunning temptation, to the point where Eve's desires become action & she takes, eats of the forbidden fruit & gives some to Adam, who eats of it also. Desire has conceived & gives birth to sin & death enters the world for the first time.

How do we know that death entered? Because God promised that in the very day that they actually took the fruit & ate it, they would SURELY die (Heb., in 'dying you shall die'). How did Lucifer sin & thus became Satan, the devil, the deceiver?

Jesus said that Satan, since the beginning, became a murderer. Who did he first murder? Adam & Eve, his deception leading to their murder, his lying leading to their fall into both physical & spiritual death. He is known as the father of lies now. His nature became corrupt.

Adam & Eve have followed Lucifer & believed what he said was the truth. They fell. Sin & death & corruption entered the universe. Lucifer appears to have returned to his position as walking around the rocks of fire. Then he & those angels that followed him in his deception were cast out of heaven & to the earth. He now is called Satan, Apollyon, the deceiver, that serpent of old, who deceives the nations.

Job 1:6; 2:1 Now there was a day when 'the 'sons of God' came to present themselves before the LORD & SATAN came also among them. “Where have you come from?” said the LORD to Satan. “From roaming through the earth,” he replied, “& walking back & forth on it.”

By the time of Job, Lucifer is now called Satan, 'adversary.'

Satan was cast down to the earth. In Job he is walking back & forth, over the earth. When Jesus was on the earth, he was tempted by Satan, just as we are. But when Christ conquered death & rose from the dead, something powerful occurred in the 'authority' or dominion realm.

John 12:31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the prince of this world will be cast out.

Satan has been cast out of heaven to the earth. Now Jesus said the PRINCE OF THIS WORLD will be cast out. Then this prince was cast out from the earth, where did he go?

He is later called the 'prince' of the power of the air, the spirit that is now in the children of disobedience (Eph 6:1-10; Eph 2:1-4; 2 Cor 4:3,4) who do his will & desires.

He was cast to the air, that part of the heavens between God's third heaven where He has established His throne & the earth. Remember, originally Lucifer's desire in Isaiah 14 was to ascend his throne 'ABOVE THE CLOUDS.'

Jesus received all authority in heaven & earth so His church can have authority over all the powers of the enemy. Jesus now has the keys to death & Hades. He made a show & spectacle of the spiritual hosts of wickedness, disarming & triumphing over them in the cross. They now operate in the air, influencing the worldly 'system' or 'cosmos' of the world.

Col 2:14,15 ...Having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! In this way, He DISARMED the spiritual rulers & authorities & put them to open shame, by TRIUMPHING OVER THEM IN IT (THE CROSS).

I John 5:19 We know that we are from God & the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

I Cor 15:24 Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed (rendered powerless) all dominion, authority & power. Hallelujah! Come Lord Jesus!
 
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SkyWriting

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all supernatural powers are either for or against God. There are no ambivalent or agnostic supernatural powers (even if the "magician" is unaware of this). So if there is a display of magic that you've perceived as good but it has nothing to do with God then it is implicitly against God and regardless of its product it is evil nor should participate in such things.
Most magicians are not against God. Some do look it though.
 
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miggles

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Do you have some examples of what you're referring to? God worked miracles (not magic) through many people, as mentioned in Scripture. But we shouldn't think that these were happening all the time, they are recorded precisely because they are unusual things that served God's particular purposes.

You mention magic, so I have to assume that this isn't what you're referring to. So what are you referring to by "magic" then? Human beings don't have super powers, either in ancient times or today--people are just people, and there's no such thing as magic.

-CryptoLutheran
i agree with that 100%
 
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Neogaia777

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The Bible has many examples of people other than Jesus doing things that are seeming not possible today. Why is that do you think?
If your talking about the kinds of things Jesus and some of the Apostles/disciples in the NT, and some of prophets and priests did in the OT, then I would have to say lack of faith, and faith in the power now through God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ...

Matthew 17:20- "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

And this lack of faith is for a lot of reasons nowadays, etc... Reasons that maybe were not as much and issue for them back them also, etc... They had maybe a simpler faith "maybe", but for some of them it was also a very much more sure one as well, etc...

It was also confirmed by God back then as well, etc, many saw these kinds of things actually happen firsthand, etc, and so were absolutely sure they were possible, and not only possible, but that through and by God they themselves could do them, etc, and they had zero doubt, etc, and like I said, it was also confirmed by God to them personally, etc...

That kind of faith is all to rare and pretty much gone nowadays, and this kind of faith you can not come to or achieve all by yourself either, but only with God, and like I said, God confirming it to the point of absolutely zero doubt, etc, and you cannot come to this all on your own ever, etc...

But only if God permits by confirmation, etc, and He may not be doing that a lot nowadays, or for very many anymore, etc...

We also doubt almost everything a whole lot more nowadays also, etc, a lot of just natural born skeptics of just about everything in their hearts today, etc... So that even if He did confirm it maybe, etc, anyway, etc...

Anyway, I think that or some those is a lot of the reasons "why", etc...

Luke 18:8- "Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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If your talking about the kinds of things Jesus and some of the Apostles/disciples in the NT, and some of prophets and priests did in the OT, then I would have to say lack of faith, and faith in the power now through God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ...

Matthew 17:20- "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

And this lack of faith is for a lot of reasons nowadays, etc... Reasons that maybe were not as much and issue for them back them also, etc... They had maybe a simpler faith "maybe", but for some of them it was also a very much more sure one as well, etc...

It was also confirmed by God back then as well, etc, many saw these kinds of things actually happen firsthand, etc, and so were absolutely sure they were possible, and not only possible, but that through and by God they themselves could do them, etc, and they had zero doubt, etc, and like I said, it was also confirmed by God to them personally, etc...

That kind of faith is all to rare and pretty much gone nowadays, and this kind of faith you can not come to or achieve all by yourself either, but only with God, and like I said, God confirming it to the point of absolutely zero doubt, etc, and you cannot come to this all on your own ever, etc...

But only if God permits by confirmation, etc, and He may not be doing that a lot nowadays, or for very many anymore, etc...

We also doubt almost everything a whole lot more nowadays also, etc, a lot of just natural born skeptics of just about everything in their hearts today, etc... So that even if He did confirm it maybe, etc, anyway, etc...

Anyway, I think that or some those is a lot of the reasons "why", etc...

Luke 18:8- "Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"

God Bless!
And I myself am one who has seen God do the impossible, and I mean absolutely impossible around me, and all around me, etc, and many, many, many times with just about everything and anything, etc, but I still do not have the faith that "I" could do these things, or that "I" could manipulate or take control of these kinds of things, etc, even though I have had things happen both to me and with me and all around me, etc, that I knew were/are absolutely impossible and are very much very impossible things, etc, and had them happen "over and over and over" "again and again", etc... Things that defy logic and reason to and excessively outrageous degree, etc...

But I still do not have the faith that "I" could do or somehow take control of these things, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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JacksBratt

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I think others that do it are hucksters and tricksters, at least for the most part.

I don't think God give the unbelieving any supernatural powers, way too dangerous... just that simple.
It's not God "giving the unbelieving any supernatural powers" It is Satanic and demonic possession.
 
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DamianWarS

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Most magicians are not against God. Some do look it though.
the popular concept of magicians today are not practicing magic they are illusionists and they may practise their craft free of any innate connections with other forces. It's their own skill that can be used to give glory to God or not or be neutral; each to the illusionists discretion. if they are practicing magic, in that they are drawing upon a force other then themselves to manipulate then this force either comes from God or it does not regardless of how harmless it may seem. Christians don't call this magic (and it would be irresponsible to do so) so I would say if such magic forces were manifested it would be not from God.
 
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Neogaia777

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the popular concept of magicians today are not practicing magic they are illusionists and they may practise their craft free of any innate connections with other forces. It's their own skill that can be used to give glory to God or not or be neutral; each to the illusionists discretion. if they are practicing magic, in that they are drawing upon a force other then themselves to manipulate then this force either comes from God or it does not regardless of how harmless it may seem. Christians don't call this magic (and it would be irresponsible to do so) so I would say if such magic forces were manifested it would be not from God.
I agree that most of it is just the art of illusion in those cases, etc, or trickery, etc, harmless for the most part unless it is truly Satanic, etc, which I don't think is actually the case in a lot, or the great majority of cases, etc...

I actually have a cousin of mine, who has always been more like a brother to me, who does a few simple magic tricks with cards, coins, etc, and has studied this kind of magic, and dabbled in it for years now, and he has shown me how a lot of it is done, and a lot of it is just simple tricks, or a combination of simple tricks that seems like an elaborate trick, etc, the simple art of, most of the time really very simple misdirection (deception) and/or illusion, etc...

He's seen a lot of videos and has showed me a lot of videos on how it's done or how they are done, etc, pretty interesting actually, but he takes and took far more interest in it than I do though, etc...

His tricks when he does them, and before he will show you how they are done, etc, you just can't figure out or seem to know how he did it/them, or how the heck it/they were actually done, until he actually shows you, etc...

Then it doesn't blow your mind so much anymore, etc...

They are pretty cool though, and he loves to pull them on people sometimes, especially kids, or his own kids, etc, but people in general too, and he won't tell you or show you for awhile until you've thought about it a bit or for a little while first, etc, and you bug him enough to tell you about it, or show you how it was done, etc...

He fully knows how some of the other "magicians" did or does theirs as well, some of the much more elaborate ones, or much more deceptive ones, etc, which is why I mentioned the videos, etc... He watched a lot of videos showing how almost all of them are done, etc...

But it's not "magic", etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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And you'd be even more amazed the tricks they can do or pull on you when there is or are camera's involved, etc, like I said my cousin knows a heck of a lot more about it than I do...

But they are very disciplined, and the tricks and the "art" takes years of study and practice and a lot of hard work to able to practice and know and "pull off" successfully, and successfully always, etc... And I do kind of admire them just a little bit for that part or that much, etc...

But it is all just "smoke and mirrors" for the most part, no real magic involved at all, etc, just misdirection, deception, and illusion, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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JacksBratt

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there wasn't much science or understanding of certain things which is why it's likely the writers of the Bible thought certain things where real such as magic.
You mean like in Egypt when Moses' serpent/staff ate the other serpent/staffs?
Our Saul had the medium summon Samuel?
 
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JacksBratt

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Okay, one problem with Christianity is that people always assume magic is bad. I concede, sorcery and stuff dealing with consorting with demons is bad, but magic defined as "miraculous events" is part of God's legacy.
As for people who weren't Christian having powers, keep in mind that we are children of God. In Greek mythology, that's called a demigod. And Jesus even said in John 14:12 "Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."

Magic isn't satanic, nor is it godly. It's supernatural. And people on both sides use it. Remember, Satan can create nothing, he can only use what God created and twist it for evil.

As for why it isn't possible today, well the answer is simple; we cannot see what we do not believe in. And while we say we believe in God, we deny that miracles still happen. If most people saw a person use telekinesis, they would say either that it's a trick or that it's the Devil. Few people give God credit for magic anymore. We can't see miracles because we don't believe in them. I mean, if people can believe the world is flat and find "evidence" to support it, then we certainly can find ways to explain away miracles.
This is a deception.

Something "supernatural is either of God.. or evil.

There are no "white witches"

Look at what the purpose or motivation of the event is for.... Is it for the glory of God? Is it for wealth and power... not of God..

Yes, not all miracles are bad. Illusionists are not evil.. It is the fine line from illusion to demonic activity and involvement.

We must be very careful in our discernment in the things that we get involved in and with.
 
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VMaeLove

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I believe the lack of faith and lack of miracle is connected. Those who doubt because there is not big magic show like fire works. But there is miracle in the thing we do not think about. Nature, and our life and soul, is all a miracle that it continues day and day without thought. Our heart beats and our lungs breath and our mind dreams.. It is beauty from God and proof his power still lives in the world.
 
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Cis.jd

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You mean like in Egypt when Moses' serpent/staff ate the other serpent/staffs?
Our Saul had the medium summon Samuel?

Probably not with Moses, but with the Egyptians yes. I don't believe the Egyptian gods ever existed so I can't believe they had an actual source of supernatural power with their "magic". It's all a magicians trick.
 
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Neogaia777

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Probably not with Moses, but with the Egyptians yes. I don't believe the Egyptian gods ever existed so I can't believe they had an actual source of supernatural power with their "magic". It's all a magicians trick.
That is what I tend to think or believe too, that it was all just a trick or was all just tricks with the Egyptians "magicians", etc...

And/or/but not that their gods "didn't neccessarily exist", etc, but that they had "no kind of any kind of real true power that was ever over and/or above or beyond God ever", etc, or that "they did not always have, or get, or always had to get from God", etc, ever or always, etc...

And I think that is still the truth today, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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JacksBratt

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Probably not with Moses, but with the Egyptians yes. I don't believe the Egyptian gods ever existed so I can't believe they had an actual source of supernatural power with their "magic". It's all a magicians trick.
I believe that they did do something to make their staffs into snakes. I, also, hold no value to their Egyptian gods... It was Satanic, IMO
 
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VMaeLove

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I am curious what people think of this, end of 2 Kings chp 2:

20 He said, Bring me a new bowl and put salt in it. And they brought it to him.

21 So he went out to the water source and threw in the salt, and said, Thus saith the LORD: I have made this water healthy; henceforth, no death or infertility should occur.

22 So the water was healed to this day according to the word of Elisha that he spoke.

23 And he went up to Beth-El. And when he went on the way, little boys came out of the city and scoffed at him and said to him: Bald head, come up! Bald head, come up!

24 And he turned; and when he saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the forest and tore up the forty-two children.

25 From there he went to Mount Carmel and returned to Samaria.

Both example him changing nature using the name of the lord... the last seems dramatic.

And my two example before come from Genesis chp44 and Numbers chp5. I have seen more I will post when I have time to find.
 
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Neogaia777

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I am curious what people think of this, end of 2 Kings chp 2:

20 He said, Bring me a new bowl and put salt in it. And they brought it to him.

21 So he went out to the water source and threw in the salt, and said, Thus saith the LORD: I have made this water healthy; henceforth, no death or infertility should occur.

22 So the water was healed to this day according to the word of Elisha that he spoke.

23 And he went up to Beth-El. And when he went on the way, little boys came out of the city and scoffed at him and said to him: Bald head, come up! Bald head, come up!

24 And he turned; and when he saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the forest and tore up the forty-two children.

25 From there he went to Mount Carmel and returned to Samaria.

Both example him changing nature using the name of the lord... the last seems dramatic.

And my two example before come from Genesis chp44 and Numbers chp5. I have seen more I will post when I have time to find.
I think that it just shows that some of those who might be perfect in faith, might not always be perfect when it comes to power, etc...

Just my opinion though anyway...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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I believe that they did do something to make their staffs into snakes. I, also, hold no value to their Egyptian gods... It was Satanic, IMO
Could have been, but it could or might have been just only a trick also, etc...?

Either way I don't think anything can happen without God's permission or His first permitting it or allowing it ever, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Cis.jd

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I believe that they did do something to make their staffs into snakes. I, also, hold no value to their Egyptian gods... It was Satanic, IMO

You have to be careful with these beliefs because not only are you just scaring yourself but you are also giving evil too much credit by having a form of faith in it.

People who claim to have psychic powers such as bending spoons, faith healing, chi energy, have all been exposed as frauds so there is no reason why we should believe that a bunch of people who believed in animal gods had any real source of power.
 
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