Fellowship That your faith should be in the power of God.

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Hello. I was in AOG for eight years. Believe me there is something worse than not hearing words, tongues and interpretations. That's when people use them to act the goat. God Bless :)

Act the goat?

The problem was they weren't a church.
 
Upvote 0

lismore

Maranatha
Oct 28, 2004
20,686
4,359
Scotland
✟245,136.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Act the goat?

The problem was they weren't a church.

My first year in the church was good, had a lot of happy times and Spirit-filled prayer meetings there. But there was a new pastor and a lot of new faces came during my second year in the church. New ways of doing things. New insecurities. The new pastor was sixty and people were vying to be the appointed successor.

I think a key verse is Acts 2:4 'As the Spirit enabled them'. When we allow the Holy Spirit to enable and empower us The Lord can work. It's in his timing. When we try to do things in our own strength or our own timing it's bad. Eventually in the church people were trying to look spiritual by calling out 'prophecies' that ultimately contradicted the scriptures, themselves and each other. I remember an AOG meeting where someone gave a message in 'tongues' and another person 'translated' it with a clearly false prophecy.

On the other hand I was at a meeting (not AOG) where a gospel message was given in tongues and French, Bulgarian and Romanian persons were saved because it was a perfect rendition of their language. Better than a native speaker could do. I will never forget that night, it was amazing! I would now lean towards the opinion that the former is from the Lord, the latter seeming to be a dog and pony show, but I could be wrong. The former builds your faith, the latter makes you cynical.

In general I think Pente-Charis churches need to do more to reign in false prophets, false teachers and wolves in their midst. No need to be a wolf in sheep's clothing, a wolf in wolves clothing can fit in fine.

God Bless :)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

lismore

Maranatha
Oct 28, 2004
20,686
4,359
Scotland
✟245,136.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
My wife had a similar dream about an AG church we once attended, interesting...

If the Holy Spirit is no longer obviously in operation in a church there are several alternatives as to what can be done. 1) Pray, repent and seek the Lord, preach the truth, humble ourselves. 2) Carry on regardless, keep the show on the road, entertain, talk 'positive', trying to replicate the work of the Holy Spirit in man's power using outgoing personalities and gimiks. After a while of 2 people realise that a structured meeting with a safe sermon and a decent social gathering is far safer and far more Godly than allowing charlatans and narcissists a free reign. God Bless :)
 
Upvote 0

topher694

Go Turtle!
Jan 29, 2019
3,828
3,038
St. Cloud, MN
✟186,960.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If the Holy Spirit is no longer obviously in operation in a church there are several alternatives as to what can be done. 1) Pray, repent and seek the Lord, preach the truth, humble ourselves. 2) Carry on regardless, keep the show on the road, entertain, talk 'positive', trying to replicate the work of the Holy Spirit in man's power using outgoing personalities and gimiks. After a while of 2 people realise that a structured meeting with a safe sermon and a decent social gathering is far safer and far more Godly than allowing charlatans and narcissists a free reign. God Bless :)
Boy, I could tell you some stories! :tearsofjoy:
 
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
My first year in the church was good, had a lot of happy times and Spirit-filled prayer meetings there. But there was a new pastor and a lot of new faces came during my second year in the church. New ways of doing things. New insecurities. The new pastor was sixty and people were vying to be the appointed successor.

I think a key verse is Acts 2:4 'As the Spirit enabled them'. When we allow the Holy Spirit to enable and empower us The Lord can work. It's in his timing. When we try to do things in our own strength or our own timing it's bad. Eventually in the church people were trying to look spiritual by calling out 'prophecies' that ultimately contradicted the scriptures, themselves and each other. I remember an AOG meeting where someone gave a message in 'tongues' and another person 'translated' it with a clearly false prophecy.

On the other hand I was at a meeting (not AOG) where a gospel message was given in tongues and French, Bulgarian and Romanian persons were saved because it was a perfect rendition of their language. Better than a native speaker could do. I will never forget that night, it was amazing! I would now lean towards the opinion that the former is from the Lord, the latter seeming to be a dog and pony show, but I could be wrong. The former builds your faith, the latter makes you cynical.

In general I think Pente-Charis churches need to do more to reign in false prophets, false teachers and wolves in their midst. No need to be a wolf in sheep's clothing, a wolf in wolves clothing can fit in fine.

God Bless :)

I've gone to two AOG churches. I remember the one in Arizona, there was a woman who frequently gave a word in tongues that I knew to be false tongues, and yet the pastor always gave the interpretation. But if false tongues were spoken in the Foursquare church I attended in California, Pastor Jack Hayford would stop them.

I have no doubt that the foreigners in that AOG church who were saved, HEARD their own language, even though they differ slightly. But that was the gift of interpretation of tongues, not that the tongue, itself, was their language. That happened at the Arizona AOG where there was a youth night and some Christian teens brought a girl they were witnessing to. One of the workers prayed over her in tongues, and she started to cry. Later when asked, she didn't hear tongues at all. All she heard was English. That is how the gift of interpretation works. You don't have to have the office of interpreter to receive that gift for a special purpose. This is also what happened on the Day of Pentecost. Read it again. Each devout Jew HEARD THEM speak in their own language. 'Them' means like a choir. God gave them all the interpretation in their own language.
 
Upvote 0

lismore

Maranatha
Oct 28, 2004
20,686
4,359
Scotland
✟245,136.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I have no doubt that the foreigners in that AOG church who were saved, HEARD their own language, even though they differ slightly. But that was the gift of interpretation of tongues, not that the tongue, itself, was their language.

Hello CharismaticLady. Thank you for your reply. I respectfully disagree. The man speaking in tongues was speaking French, Bulgarian and Romanian. Those people in the audience who knew a little French heard it but knew it was beyond what even a native speaker could speak. I did French to Higher level, he was speaking French. The meeting was recorded on DVD because it was a testimony dinner meeting (Not at AOG), everyone who has heard the DVD says the same, French, Bulgarian and Romanian. The people from those countries who were saved heard the same as the rest of us, only they understood every word of it. I understood a percentage of part of it.

As I said it was an awesome experience.

That happened at the Arizona AOG where there was a youth night and some Christian teens brought a girl they were witnessing to. One of the workers prayed over her in tongues, and she started to cry. Later when asked, she didn't hear tongues at all. All she heard was English.

Were you present? What did you hear?

That is how the gift of interpretation works. You don't have to have the office of interpreter to receive that gift for a special purpose. This is also what happened on the Day of Pentecost. Read it again. Each devout Jew HEARD THEM speak in their own language. 'Them' means like a choir. God gave them all the interpretation in their own language.

I disagree. All the people at Pentecost heard the gospel in their own language because the Apostles were speaking all those languages. Acts 2:4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit enabled them.

I think this is where the chicanery can come in, if the miracle is in the hearing, not in the speaking then it's unverifiable. Also it could be a cover, why some of these tongues do not seem to be real languages - because the miracle is in the hearing not the speaking. Ergo you could say anything and it's a tongue.

Another explanation- many of these people giving excited utterances have not been enabled to speak by the Holy Spirit and so are not speaking in understandable languages. They're sharing the delusions of their own minds, as indeed Jeremiah 14:14 states.

Although it's possible both could be true, the miracle could be in the speaking sometimes and in the hearing sometimes? But I think there is some skullduggery going on in churches with the speaking in tongues.

God Bless :)
 
Upvote 0

lismore

Maranatha
Oct 28, 2004
20,686
4,359
Scotland
✟245,136.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Reason being, if we are supposed to put our faith in these two things - there should be an application that should be shown (demonstrated). Is this perhaps why there is weakness in the Body? We are going after human wisdom instead of the power of God?

The supernatural power of the Lord, experienced even once it's life-changing. Nothing can shake you out of your faith in God when you've experienced his power. Everything seems different after that, nothing is the same. But I don't think the power of God itself alone is something we should be seeking.

Seek the Lord while he may be found the scriptures say (Isaiah 55:6-7)
Seek the Kingdom of God and his righteousness also (Matthew 6:33)

The Lord will empower a person when he thinks that person is ready. Perhaps the issue is that many Christians are seeking the wrong things. Desire the gifts but seek the giver. God Bless :)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Were you present? What did you hear?

Her four friends and the worker, who is a friend of mine, all spoke English, and all they heard was tongues.

I disagree. All the people at Pentecost heard the gospel in their own language because the Apostles were speaking all those languages. Acts 2:4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit enabled them.


Who gave the interpretation?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

lismore

Maranatha
Oct 28, 2004
20,686
4,359
Scotland
✟245,136.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Who gave the interpretation?

Hello CharismaticLady. If the Holy Spirit enabled Peter to speak Parthian to a Parthian or Arabic to an Arab then there would be no need for interpretation. I think interpretation would come into a situation where someone speaks tongues in a church-group situation, for example someone would stand up and say 'I'm an Armenian, that guy was talking Armenian and here's what he said'- for the edification of the entire church. This is unusual, but it does happen. Like gold, you don't see it every day but it's of tremendous value.

I'm a bit sceptical about what I have seen in some churches, someone gives an excited utterance (which may or may not be valid). The utterance will not be empirically verifiable. No-one understands what was said in the conventional sense. Someone, usually a certain type of person, gives an 'interpretation', not understanding what was said but believing they may have a gift. Again, not verifiable. That's three stages where it could all be pear shaped. I have seen this several times where outlandish, dubious or admittedly contrived 'interpretations' are given. Like gravel, you see this frequently but it's of less value than gold. God's standard for communication is perfection. This process is not perfection. To me it goes under Jeremiah 14:14.

God Bless :)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Hello CharismaticLady. If the Holy Spirit enabled Peter to speak Parthian to a Parthian or Arabic to an Arab then there would be no need for interpretation. I think interpretation would come into a situation where someone speaks tongues in a church-group situation, for example someone would stand up and say 'I'm an Armenian, that guy was talking Armenian and here's what he said'- for the edification of the entire church. This is unusual, but it does happen. Like gold, you don't see it every day but it's of tremendous value.

I'm a bit sceptical about what I have seen in some churches, someone gives an excited utterance (which may or may not be valid). The utterance will not be empirically verifiable. No-one understands what was said in the conventional sense. Someone, usually a certain type of person, gives an 'interpretation', not understanding what was said but believing they may have a gift. Again, not verifiable. That's three stages where it could all be pear shaped. I have seen this several times where outlandish, dubious or admittedly contrived 'interpretations' are given. Like gravel, you see this frequently but it's of less value than gold. God's standard for communication is perfection. This process is not perfection. To me it goes under Jeremiah 14:14.

God Bless :)

But that would go against 1 Corinthians 14:2

Praying in tongues doesn't have to be verifiable to you, just to God.

But what I meant with my question was who gave the interpretation at that church service you mentioned.
 
Upvote 0

lismore

Maranatha
Oct 28, 2004
20,686
4,359
Scotland
✟245,136.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
But that would go against 1 Corinthians 14:2

Unless that's before it's translated?

Praying in tongues doesn't have to be verifiable to you, just to God.

Giving a message in tongues does have to be verifiable to me. The bible says: "Test everything: retain what is good" (1 Thessalonians 5:21). To test is to verify. It's a command.

But what I meant with my question was who gave the interpretation at that church service you mentioned.

Which church service? The one where the speaker spoke in French, Romanian and Bulgarian? It was an evangelistic dinner meeting.

The message was for the young men from those countries, no-one was qualified enough in both their language and English to interpret. As I said the French was purer than even a native speaker could come up with. It was actually like listening to a heavenly tongue.

I was at an AOG convention in 2002 where someone spoke one sentence in 'tongues', someone else stood up and gave a very long-winded interpretation about the revival coming in 2003. He recanted in 2004. Well meaning but deluded people.

The first experience built my faith, the second experience made me cringe, become cynical.

:)
 
Upvote 0

topher694

Go Turtle!
Jan 29, 2019
3,828
3,038
St. Cloud, MN
✟186,960.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
People, your both right. The gift is "different kinds of tongues". There are different variations of it for different situations. God is big enough to use both. When it is used in error, the error comes from man operating in ignorance or the wrong heart... that happens with every single biblical principle, not just tongues. Man's error doesn't change God's heart or will.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Unless that's before it's translated?

That is referring to prayer and praise TO God. That is in Mark 16:16-18. Notice, no interpretation ability is listed in those because it isn't necessary. Those are for all who believe, individually, not corporately. For corporately you have to go to 1 Corinthians 12. These are not for us individually, but for the profit of all. That is why verse 30 is a 'no' answer. This tongues must be supernaturally interpreted. They are both supernatural and not understood by man, and the interpretation is not natural. I'm curious. Do you believe the gift of interpretation of tongues is Paul supernaturally understanding foreigners he witnesses to?

I hope to finish reading your post sometime tomorrow.
 
Upvote 0

Eha

Active Member
Jan 6, 2020
130
41
51
Tallinn
✟30,373.00
Country
Estonia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I've gone to two AOG churches. I remember the one in Arizona, there was a woman who frequently gave a word in tongues that I knew to be false tongues, and yet the pastor always gave the interpretation. But if false tongues were spoken in the Foursquare church I attended in California, Pastor Jack Hayford would stop them.

I have no doubt that the foreigners in that AOG church who were saved, HEARD their own language, even though they differ slightly. But that was the gift of interpretation of tongues, not that the tongue, itself, was their language. That happened at the Arizona AOG where there was a youth night and some Christian teens brought a girl they were witnessing to. One of the workers prayed over her in tongues, and she started to cry. Later when asked, she didn't hear tongues at all. All she heard was English. That is how the gift of interpretation works. You don't have to have the office of interpreter to receive that gift for a special purpose. This is also what happened on the Day of Pentecost. Read it again. Each devout Jew HEARD THEM speak in their own language. 'Them' means like a choir. God gave them all the interpretation in their own language.
i heard french woman once. i knew just few word, but clearly understood several minutes of speech and was wondering - how she knew Estonian?
thing is - in the spiritual world are not different languages - is one and she did talk in Spirit. So if i were from china, i would wonder - how she knew Chinese?
it is one of examples, how spiritual laws affect physical. how often we even dont notice it.
and maybe it explain, how so many people from different nations, could understand apostles in Acts, even they talked in choir... we understand choir in our language, right? but are lost in choir of different languages at once...
just thinking..
 
  • Like
Reactions: lismore
Upvote 0