Can we eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans? And what about blood in meat?

yeshuaslavejeff

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I read over the past years the information from Jewish believers acquainted, knowledgeable and experiences in the languages , and the customs, and the lives of the righteous Israelites/ Hebrews/ Jews all related to these Scriptures (and others). They explained the context quite simply, and showed both from Scripture (which was sufficient itself, and first), and then from the various customs, feasts, practices, and habits and thoughts of the Jewish people and the assemblies of Ekklesia
how there is really no reference and no commonality here.

Since it involves more understanding of all those things than I have become well-versed in, I leave it to those who want to know to seek for the truth themselves, and as Yahweh Promised, if they do, they find it.

Could you enlighten me about what I bolded?
The last supper was unleaven bread and wine the day before the traditional Passover meal. The cross was the last blood sacrifice was it not?
 
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Wayne Gabler

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I leave it to those who want to know to seek for the truth themselves, and as Yahweh Promised, if they do, they find it.
Apparently things go a lot smoother if you look for Him rather than waiting for Him to come and find you. Joel:2 is about the Angels He sends to gather the sinners.
M't:13:41:
The Son of man shall send forth his angels,
and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend,
and them which do iniquity;

Joe:2:1:
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion,
and sound an alarm in my holy mountain:
let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:
for the day of the LORD cometh,
for it is nigh at hand;
.
.
.
Joe:2:11:
And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army:
for his camp is very great:
for he is strong that executeth his word:
for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible;
and who can abide it?
 
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Soyeong

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I've been reading about the food laws. Some christians believes you may eat all meat and some believes you may only eat clean meat.

I don't know what is right. The christians I know eat all meat. Some arguments are that we are not under the law anymore and Peter's vision (but Peters visions was about the gentiles to my opinion).

But in the Old Testament God warns us about eating unclean meat, especially the shellfish and crustaceans where he repeats multiple times that it is an abomination. Now science also says pork, shellfish and crustaceans are full of toxins and bad for your health. So thats makes it more sense to keep the commandment and not eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans anymore.

Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he would have still taught full obedience to it by example even if he had said nothing, and as his followers we are told to follow his example, which includes refraining from eating unclean animals (1 Peter 2:21-22). Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of Christ, which again includes repenting from eating unclean animals.

In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from God's law, so anyone who tells you that it is fine to eat unclean animals is guilty of sin and needs to repent. Likewise, in Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying the Mosaic Law, so God simply did not leave any room for His followers to follow someone who teaches that we can eat unclean animals.

Acts 10:14-15 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” 15 And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.”

It should be noted that Peter did not just object by saying that he had never eaten anything that was unclean, but also added that he had never eaten anything that was common. Furthermore, God only rebuked Peter for his use of the word "common" and not for his use of the word "unclean". In other words, Peter had correctly identified the unclean animals as unclean and had correctly declined to eat them in obedience to God's commands in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14, but he had incorrectly identified the clean animals as common and had incorrectly declined to eat them in disobedience to God's command to kill and eat. So Peter's vision had nothing to do with a change in the status is unclean animals, but rather he interpreted his vision three times as being in regard to incorrectly identifying Gentiles.

And what about blood in meat? God has warned us about that a couple times in the Old Testament and also in the New Testament.

So what's right? I don't know it anymore.
I am actually more convinced to obey the food laws. But circumstances makes it difficult to obey the food laws. It's not a problem for me to not eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans anymore. The problem is that there are not really shops in my country that sells kosher meat to buy chicken and beef. There is actually only one kosher butcher in my country and the prices are expensive too. My husband would never agree with that. We are not rich. So that's not an option.

Does God mind that I still eat chicken and beef with blood in it, because I have no other choice?

In Exodus 12:7-11, the Israelites were instructed to eat the Passover lamb that night in haste, which means that they would have had time to drain out the hemoglobin, but did not have time to salt the meat to draw out the myoglobin, so it can be inferred that the command not to eat blood is referring to hemoglobin, which is drained out of animals before they are sold on the market in the US, though that might vary depending upon your country.
 
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Soyeong

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In the United States animals that are slaughtered usually have the blood drained for health reasons so it's normally not an issue.

The rest of the dietary laws are what Paul labeled "works of the law" and do not apply to Christians:

Col 2:20 - Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Col 2:21 - (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

Col 2:22 - Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Paul is consistent in all of his letters to the early Christians who had reverted back to keeping the Jewish law:

Gal 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law that was of works with a law that was of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said in Romans 3:27 that our faith upholds God's law, so he directly contrasted works of the law with the Mosaic Law. In Colossians 2:22, Paul specified that was he was speaking about in the previous verses as according to the commandments and doctrines of men, so he should not be interpreted as referring to the holy, righteous, and good commandments of God. Likewise, in Acts 10:28, Peter referred to a law that forbade Jews to visit or associate with Gentiles, however, this law is not found anywhere in God's law and is therefore a man-made law. It was this man-made law that Peter was obeying in Galatians 2:11-16 when he stopped visiting or associating with the Gentiles. Paul was not an enemy of God, so you should be more careful not to take things that were only said against the doctrines of men as teaching us to rebel against the commandments of God.
 
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HTacianas

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In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law that was of works with a law that was of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said in Romans 3:27 that our faith upholds God's law, so he directly contrasted works of the law with the Mosaic Law. In Colossians 2:22, Paul specified that was he was speaking about in the previous verses as according to the commandments and doctrines of men, so he should not be interpreted as referring to the holy, righteous, and good commandments of God. Likewise, in Acts 10:28, Peter referred to a law that forbade Jews to visit or associate with Gentiles, however, this law is not found anywhere in God's law and is therefore a man-made law. It was this man-made law that Peter was obeying in Galatians 2:11-16 when he stopped visiting or associating with the Gentiles. Paul was not an enemy of God, so you should be more careful not to take things that were only said against the doctrines of men as teaching us to rebel against the commandments of God.

Act 15:19 - Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Act 15:20 - But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
 
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Soyeong

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I believe that God has declared that all foods are now clean.

Do you think that Jesus should be interpreted as expressing disagreement about whether we should follow what the Father has commanded? Or as denying that Leviticus and Deuteronomy are Scripture? Or as sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2?

The separation between the clean and the unclean was to teach a spiritual lesson.

What good is a spiritual lesson that has no practical application that changes the way that we live? If someone thought that because they were taught a spiritual lesson on the principle of loving our neighbor that they no longer needed to obey God's commands to take physical actions that were examples of that principle, then they would be missing the point. Gaining knowledge only for the sake of knowing and not for the sake of doing only puffs up.
 
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Soyeong

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Act 15:19 - Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Act 15:20 - But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Do you think that the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God? Or that we should follow them instead of God if they had been trying to countermand Him? They were not enemies of God, so that is not what they were trying to do.

There are 1,050 commandments in the NT, so if the four commands listed in Acts 15:19-21 were an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of mature Gentile believers, then that would exclude over 99% of the commandments in the NT, including those expounded upon by Jesus. Clearly, it was not intended as an exhaustive list for mature believers, but as states, it was a list intended not to make things too difficult for new believers who are turning to God, which they excused in verse 21 by saying that they would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues. In other words, when you have a bunch of new believers coming out of paganism who are unfamiliar with Christianity, then in order to avoid overwhelming them it become important to be on the same page about which things are necessary to teach them right away and which things can be taught over time as they mature in their faith.


@Goodhuman
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Don't worry about it, I say, while sitting here eating my smoked oysters. Oysters with Doritos and Dr Pepper. Anyone else's taste buds change as they age? Some of the stuff I crave would make me think I was pregnant if I wasn't a male.
hmmm..... pregnant? Like these men ? >>>>
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What Does Psalms 7:14 Mean? "Whoever is pregnant with evil ...

Psalm 7:14 (CSB) See, he is pregnant with evil, conceives trouble, and gives birth to deceit. Psalm 7:14 (CJB) Look how the wicked is pregnant with evil; he conceives trouble, gives birth to lies. Psalm 7:14 (CEBA) But look how the wicked hatch evil, conceive trouble, give birth to ..
 
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HTacianas

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Do you think that the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God? Or that we should follow them instead of God if they had been trying to countermand Him? They were not enemies of God, so that is not what they were trying to do.

There are 1,050 commandments in the NT, so if the four commands listed in Acts 15:19-21 were an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of mature Gentile believers, then that would exclude over 99% of the commandments in the NT, including those expounded upon by Jesus. Clearly, it was not intended as an exhaustive list for mature believers, but as states, it was a list intended not to make things too difficult for new believers who are turning to God, which they excused in verse 21 by saying that they would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues. In other words, when you have a bunch of new believers coming out of paganism who are unfamiliar with Christianity, then in order to avoid overwhelming them it become important to be on the same page about which things are necessary to teach them right away and which things can be taught over time as they mature in their faith.


@Goodhuman

The Jerusalem Council did not countermand God. The Council met with the full authority of Jesus Christ:

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

And no one has claimed that the Council's decision was "an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of mature Gentile believers".
 
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Soyeong

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The food laws are part of an old dead covenant that was ended when Jesus died. You can't go back and just keep some of that law and think that it does you any good.

Galatians 5
"2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law

You can't just pick and chose, if you pick one, you pick them all including animal sacrifice to atone for sins.

That law was nailed to the cross. We're not under that law anymore. We're under obligation to keep the law of Christ (see James). And in some cases, the restrictions are even stricter. For instance, under the old law, murder was the taking of a life. Under Christ's law, murder is hating your brother.

But the dietary laws and circumcision and the rest of it are done away with and the old law has been replaced. You can't go back and be justified by that law anymore.

While we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same instructions for how to walk in the same ways and express the same character traits. For example, the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness is straightforwardly based on God's righteousness, not on any particular covenant, and God's righteousness is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to act in accordance with His righteousness are eternally valid regardless of which covenant we are under, and the same goes for God's other character traits.

For example, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, which includes refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11:44-45), so following those instructions is about testifying to the nations about God's holiness. Instructions for how to act in accordance with God's holiness can't be done away with without first doing away with God's holiness.

The Israelites needed to be taught about who God is and how to walk in His ways, so God's law was given for our own good for that purpose (Deuteronomy 10:12-13). God us trustworthy, so He law therefore is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7, Nehemiah 9:13), and a law that isn't trustworthy can't come from a God who is trustworthy, so if we believe that God can be trusted to guide us in how to rightly live through His law and that it was given for His people's own good in order to bless us, then isn't a positive thing to seek by faith to learn how to walk in His ways according to the wholeness of His law? David said repeatedly through out the Psalms that he loved God's law and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture, then we should consider him to be expressing a correct view of God's law, and should therefore share it.

So why would you think that it makes sense to interpret Galatians 5:2 was Paul warning us against doing that as though obedience to God were somehow a negative thing? All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that message, so it would make no sense whatsoever to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. Paul was not an enemy of God, so his problem in Galatians was not with God's law, but with people teaching that Gentiles had to obey their works of the law in order to become justified.

There were no laws nailed to the cross. In regard to Colossians 2:14, whenever someone was crucified, the people would write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This served as a perfect analogy for the list of our violations of God's law being nailed to the cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with ending any of God's laws, especially because they are all eternal (Psalms 119:160).

God is not in disagreement with Himself about which laws we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses. Christ set a sinless example for how to follow how how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practices, so it wouldn't make any sense to think that the Law of Christ was something other than what he taught by word and by example. In Leviticus 19:17, we are instructed not to hate our brother in our hearts, so that was nothing brand new in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2. We aren't justified by obeying God's law because it was never given for that purpose in the first place.
 
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Soyeong

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The Jerusalem Council did not countermand God. The Council met with the full authority of Jesus Christ:

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

When the Father has commanded something, then to command against obeying that command is to try to countermand the Father. Countermanding the Father with the authority of Christ would simply mean that Christ gave them the authority to countermand the Father, however, that was not the extent of the authority that Christ was granting them in Matthew 18:19, but rather it only extended as far making ruling about how to correctly implement what the Father has commanded.

And no one has claimed that the Council's decision was "an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of mature Gentile believers".

If you don't explain why you quoted a verse, then I'm left guessing as to why you quoted it. If you don't consider Acts 15:19-21 to be an exhaustive list, then then please explain why you quoted those verses and how that addresses the points that I made in the post that you were responding to.
 
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HTacianas

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When the Father has commanded something, then to command against obeying that command is to try to countermand the Father. Countermanding the Father with the authority of Christ would simply mean that Christ gave them the authority to countermand the Father, however, that was not the extent of the authority that Christ was granting them in Matthew 18:19, but rather it only extended as far making ruling about how to correctly implement what the Father has commanded.



If you don't explain why you quoted a verse, then I'm left guessing as to why you quoted it. If you don't consider Acts 15:19-21 to be an exhaustive list, then then please explain why you quoted those verses and how that addresses the points that I made in the post that you were responding to.

The OP asked about eating blood. You apparently said that eating blood is okay. I quoted the decision of the Jerusalem Council that eating blood is not okay. You then accused the Jerusalem Council of countermanding God, for some reason that I don't understand.
 
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Soyeong

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The OP asked about eating blood. You apparently said that eating blood is okay. I quoted the decision of the Jerusalem Council that eating blood is not okay. You then accused the Jerusalem Council of countermanding God, for some reason that I don't understand.

Thanks, it is common for people to interpret those verses as the Jerusalem Council countermanding God, so so sorry for misunderstanding the point you were making. I did say that eating blood was ok, but interpreted the prohibition against eating blood as being in regard to eating hemoglobin, not myoglobin.
 
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The christians I know eat all meat. Some arguments are that we are not under the law anymore and Peter's vision (but Peters visions was about the gentiles to my opinion).

I could come to no other conclusion. I believe that those who reach another conclusion, are biased by their own wills.

Context is everything.

Look at what happens right after his vision. Is this passage really about Kepha being hungry? Does he run right out to grab a swine burger with cheese, and wash it all down with a tall glass of its' blood? The answer is emphatically NO!
 
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www.biblestudytools.com › psalms › 7-14-compare

What Does Psalms 7:14 Mean? "Whoever is pregnant with evil ...

Psalm 7:14 (CSB) See, he is pregnant with evil, conceives trouble, and gives birth to deceit. Psalm 7:14 (CJB) Look how the wicked is pregnant with evil; he conceives trouble, gives birth to lies. Psalm 7:14 (CEBA) But look how the wicked hatch evil, conceive trouble, give birth to ..
Um, no. How does eating oysters make one evil?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I could come to no other conclusion. I believe that those who reach another conclusion, are biased by their own wills.
Yes, and in the world, the flesh, mankind, as in the days of Noah, The will of man is wicked.

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? “I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. "

Jeremiah 17:9-10 | ESV
KJV |
 
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Act 15:19 - Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Act 15:20 - But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
It was not an exhaustive list - they were given those commandments to start. That’s why in the next verse(which you conveniently left out), James mentions the law being read every sabbath.

The Gentiles coming into the fold would learn more of the law when they gathered with the assemblies every sabbath. Those are clearly not all the commandments that we are expected to obey, and I would assume that you don’t even think we are only responsible for those 4.

it’s like when someone is new to church - they have to be acclimated. You don’t just throw them in the deep end. They gotta learn.

I’m pretty sure you don’t teach that witchcraft, drunkenness and coveting are permissible(considering they were not commanded in the Jerusalem Council).
 
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