Why Christians Should Embrace Partial Preterism

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Andrewn

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At least 2 things that can't be true about this 42 months. 1)---it can't occur while satan is bound in the pit, thus none of it can parallel the thousand years.
If satan is a spirit, one can't bind it with a chain. We talked about him being thrown out of heaven but roaming in the earth and the sea. The Church can be protected in the wilderness (Rev 12).

2) It can't occur both before and after the thousand years.
But revelation talks about antichrists both before and after the Millennium!!

Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

When do you think these were initially martyred? Do you think they were martyred during the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13?
Yes, I do.

If we look back in Revelation 14 we do see this. I would think verse 9 is being based on what is recorded in Revelation 13. Where verse 12 below is meaning the martyrs who don't worship the beast, neither his image, etc.
It makes sense to me that these passages represent the entire history rather than an actual period of 42 months. The 3 1/2 years, being 1/2 x 7, are a symbol for limitation of satan's authority that God decrees so that Christianity would not be wiped out.
 
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sovereigngrace

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It seems to me that there is only one 42 month period that the beast in Revelation 13 reigns during. It doesn't matter if literal months are meant or if something symbolic is meant. None of that changes a thing one way or the other. At least 2 things that can't be true about this 42 months. 1)---it can't occur while satan is bound in the pit, thus none of it can parallel the thousand years. 2) It can't occur both before and after the thousand years.

There are only two places it can fit then. Either before the thousand years, or after the thousand years. That is the only 2 times satan is not in the pit.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

What I have underlined there is no way in a million years that their martyrdom did not occur during the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13. So where does what I have underlined in Revelation 20:4 tell us that the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13 fits then? Before the thousand years? Or after the thousand years?

Here is an afterthought on my part to add to what I submitted above.

Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

When do you think these were initially martyred? Do you think they were martyred during the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13?

Any reason none of these-----and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name(Revelation 15:2)------would not be any of these martyrs here----and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands(Revelation 20:4)?


If we look back in Revelation 14 we do see this. I would think verse 9 is being based on what is recorded in Revelation 13. Where verse 12 below is meaning the martyrs who don't worship the beast, neither his image, etc.

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

But the reign of the beast and Satan’s little season represent hell’s final throw before eternity. They indicate a final release of evil before the second coming. The great white throne is the one and only future coming of the Lord and his final judgment.
 
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DavidPT

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If satan is a spirit, one can't bind it with a chain. We talked about him being thrown out of heaven but roaming in the earth and the sea. The Church can be protected in the wilderness (Rev 12).

Couldn't one argue as well, if satan is a spirit, one can't literally cast him into an actual place, the lake of fire in this case, and expect that he can stay confined in it for forever in order to be tormented the same amount of time?

Speaking of the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


This says he was cast into. Should we take this literally or in some other sense? Should we take it to literally mean he is cast into a literal place?

To remain consistent, depending on how one reasons the above, let's now look at Revelation 20:2-3 and see if one reasons that in the same manner they do in regards to Revelation 20:10.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Verse 3 also has him cast into somewhere. Should we take this literally or in some other sense? Should we take it to literally mean he is cast into a literal place?


When he is cast into the lake of fire, what is the purpose for that? So that he can be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

When he is cast into the bottomless pit, what is the purpose for that? To shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled

When he is cast into the former, the confinement is for forever. When he is cast into the latter, the confinement is for a thousand years. As to the former, this for ever, should that be taken to literally mean for forever? To remain consistent, how ever one takes that, literal or in some other sense, one should take this thousand years in the latter in the same manner.


But revelation talks about antichrists both before and after the Millennium!!

As to the 42 months in Revelation 13 though, that can only fit in one place. Either it fits before the thousand years, or it fits after the thousand years.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

There is not a single mention of saints being martyred here. It's nowhere in this text. Clearly, in Revelation 13, there are saints being martyred during that time. Clearly, in Revelation 20:4 there is the mentioning of martyrs by this same beast in Revelation 13. This should also tell us that the events of Revelation 13 can't occur after the thousand years if they already occurred before the thousand years. The fact, before the thousand years this results in martyred saints, and after the thousand years it doesn't.

And if the 2nd coming follows the fulfillment of the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13, like many Amils conclude, how could Amil be plausible per that version of Amil?
 
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parousia70

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You have a different understanding, different interpretations of scripture than I do.
yes.
Why don't you use the scriptures I cited (there were several explicit citations) and explain why they don't mean what I contend they do, and offer your alternate interpretation of them?
The Church is the BODY of CHRIST. It had its beginning at Pentecost.

So the 3000 Israeli Jews who accepted Christ on that Day ceased being "Israel"?

ISRAEL is a place, a nation filled with Jews, with cities like TEL Aviv, Jerusalem.

However today, none of those "Jews" have any verifiable relationship to a single pre-desolation Hebrew person.
Which should be an insurmountable problem for those who hold your view.. but oddly it's simply dismissed as irrelevant, even though the ability to demonstrate such a relationship is critical to the defense of your view...
How do you personally reconcile this?

Actually Jesus will return there and put his feet on the ground. He will descend from the clouds as He ascended, as many watched Him, He will return.

I live in Oregon, USA.
Exactly how are my physical eyes going to see him descend from the clouds over Jerusalem and touch His feet down there?
 
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DavidPT

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I live in Oregon, USA.
Exactly how are my physical eyes going to see him descend from the clouds over Jerusalem and touch His feet down there?

As an example. Do you have a tv? Is there such a thing as filming events taking place in real time that are taking place in another part of the world and then being able to view these events in real time as well from other locations outside of the region the events are occurring?
 
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Christian Gedge

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Chris, does a kippah identify a Jew?

If it does, then God will revive all kippah wearers, according to your claim that God will revive the Jews.

But if it does not, then what does God look for to identify those whom He revives?
Repentance in their case, I would have thought.

Physical DNA and all other identifiers are irrelevant. (Galatians 3:28)
Sure, but there are many historical examples of 'people groups' that God has targeted for spiritual awakenings despite of their sins. I believe that national Israel will get such a turn.

PS Thanks for The Atonement Clock. It is an unsurpassed exposition.
Thanks Jgr. I spent over 10 years writing and praying about this. So, it means a lot when folk like me, who have struggled to understand these things, appreciate my book.
 
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Andrewn

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Clearly, in Revelation 13, there are saints being martyred during that time. Clearly, in Revelation 20:4 there is the mentioning of martyrs by this same beast in Revelation 13. This should also tell us that the events of Revelation 13 can't occur after the thousand years if they already occurred before the thousand years.
I already addressed this and mentioned that Rev 13:5 & Rev 20:4 already took place at beginning of the Millennium.

But there is another beast to lead the war of Gog & Magog at end of the Millennium. He is mentioned in Rev 16:12-21; Rev 19:17-21; and Rev 20:7-10. In the Premil scenario it is rather ridiculous to have another global war against the physically reigning Christ.
 
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DavidPT

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I already addressed this and mentioned that Rev 13:5 & Rev 20:4 already took place at beginning of the Millennium.

Yes, I realize you did, yet there are still Amils that apparently disagree with you about that. Even though I might be discussing things with you at the time, I'm addressing Amil in general since there are apparently multiple versions of it.


In the Premil scenario it is rather ridiculous to have another global war against the physically reigning Christ.

In my mind Zechariah14:16-19 is undeniably meaning post the 2nd coming. These can't be meaning the saved who put on immortality at the last trump, therefore must be meaning unsaved mortal survivors. No mortal can live forever though, so that obviously means something has to put an end to their mortality eventually, post the 2nd coming. The only thing that can possibly do that is the same thing you find to be ridiculous above.

Before satan initially fell, he knew God personally and had face to face encounters with Him. Yet he still rebelled, regardless. Why doesn't anyone find that idea ridiculous, but find it ridiculous that many, post the 2nd coming, can also rebel against God, even though they also would know God personally and be seeing Him face to face for the past thousand years? And since Christ is God, and if He is physically dwelling and ruling on the planet during the thousand years, how can they not know of Him personally and see Him face to face? But it's not ridiculous if satan rebelled against God under similar circumstances, but it's ridiculous if there was a rebellion against God after the thousand years if that thousand years means post the 2nd coming?
 
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jgr

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Repentance in their case, I would have thought.

Amen, yes. Repentance, and faith unto salvation. (2 Timothy 3:15; 1 Peter 1:5,9)

Sure, but there are many historical examples of 'people groups' that God has targeted for spiritual awakenings despite of their sins. I believe that national Israel will get such a turn.

God targets all humanity for spiritual awakening. (John 3:16; 2 Peter 3:9)
He does not favor any group over another. (Acts 10:34,35)
Sadly, much of humanity does not respond to Him, and is lost. Only a subset, or remnant, is saved.
The same is true of Israel. (Isaiah 10:22; Romans 9:27)
Their Jewishness will not save them.
Only their repentance and faith unto salvation will.
Sadly, only a remnant will repent and believe, and receive that salvation.
 
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claninja

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As to Mark 3:27, since it's not a good idea to use lone verses to establish doctrine, let's look at that verse in context.

That's just a tad bit ironic, where else besides revelation 20, is the 1,000 year reign mentioned?

The doctrines of a literal 1,000 year reign upon earth are solely built on revelation 20, with no outside scriptural support.

Can you show why and how Revelation 20:1-3 fits any of that? The fact you used Mark 3:27 specifically to make your point, what does that verse mean when this part happens---and after that he must be loosed a little season(Revelation 20:3)?

The context of the parable of the strong man is Jesus casting out demons and being wrongly accused of as working for Beelzebub. Jesus corrects the scribes and states a house divided cannot stand, and then goes into the parable of the strongman. Reading the parallel accounts show us that Christ is the one who bound the strong man. Christ is the one who took away the armor of the strongman in order to plunder his house. Specifically, looking at Matthew, Christ is able to cast out demons because He entered the strong man house and bound him. Thus the evidence of satan being bound is found in Christ casting out demons.

Mark 3:27 But no one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.

Luke 11:21-23 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe; but when one stronger than he attacks him and overcomes him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoil. Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

Matthew 12:29 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

I have yet to find one serious Bible commentary that disagrees that Jesus bound the strongman through His work. Commentaries pretty much agree that Christ is the one who bound the strongman during his ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and sending of the Spirit. Some examples, that show that Christ bound the strong man at his 1st coming:

Elliot's commentary
(29) How can one enter into a strong man’s house.—The parable implied in the question appears in a fuller form in Luke 11:21-22. Here it will be enough to note that the “strong man” is Satan. The “house” is the region which is subject to him—i.e., either the world at large, or the spirits of individual men; the “goods” or “instruments” (comp. the “armour” of Luke 11:22) are the demons or subordinate powers of evil by which he maintains his dominion; the “binding of the strong man” is the check given to the tyranny of Satan by emancipating the possessed sufferers from their thraldom; the “spoiling of the house” implies the final victory over him.

Benson Commentary
Matthew 12:29-30. How can one enter, &c. — How could I cast out Satan, and destroy his works, if I did not first overcome him? “The house of the strong man (or, strong one, as του ισχυρου should rather be rendered) into which Christ entered, was the world, fitly called Beelzebub’s house, or palace, because there he is served by luxury, lust, covetousness, pride, anger, and the other evil passions of men. The goods or vessels belonging to the strong one are the wicked, called Satan’s vessels metaphorically, as Paul is called Christ’s chosen vessel, Acts 9:15.

Barnes Commentary
A man could not break into the house of a strong man and take his property unless he had rendered the man himself helpless. If he had taken his goods, it would therefore be sufficient proof that he had bound the man. So I, says he, have taken this "property - this possessed person" - from the dominion of Satan. It is clear proof that I have subdued "Satan himself," the "strong" being that had him in possession. The words "or else" mean "or how:" "How, or in what way, can one, etc."


There are additional verses that show that Christ, at his first coming, destroyed the works of the devil. Thus, "binding" the strong man in order to plunder his house.

Hebrews 2:14-15 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


I would argue this same understanding of Christ binding the strong man at his 1st coming should be used to interpret the symbolic language of revelation 20.

Revelation 20:1-3 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.

Thus, the understanding of the dragon being bound and thrown into a pit for 1,000 years and then released for a "brief period of time" refers to Christ's ministry in which He bound the strongman in order to plunder the house (mark 3:27, matthew 12:29, Luke 11:21-23), and cast satan out has his ascension (John 12:31, revelation 12:9), which lead to satan's little season (John 14:30, revelation 12:12, revelation 20:3)

I'm not seeing it. Clearly when he is loosed he is not still bound. I don't see the alleged connection to Revelation 20:1-3 with that of Mark 3:13-30 . Where is it if you still insist it's there? Unless you can show that the context involving Mark 3:13-30 supports your theory about this connection to Revelation 20:1-3, I don't see you having an argument at all.

Revelation 20 is a vision, and thus must be interpreted. We should look to the gospels and epistles as to how interpret revelation.

According to the NT scripture, when Christ bound satan, he destroyed his works and cast him out of heaven, which resulted in "the prince of this world coming" and a "little season".

The hangup on your end seems to be the taking of the 1,000 years as literal and linear. However, this belief has no scriptural support outside of revelation , and even contradicts the gospels and epistles

From my position, which takes revelation 20 as a vision that is of symbolic language, which can find its interpretation in the gospels and epistles, you appear to have no argument at all, as you cannot provide any other scripture outside of revelation that shows satan being bound for a literal 1,000 years nor satan having 2 "little season" nor Christ reigning on earth for a literal 1,000 years......









 
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sovereigngrace

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I already addressed this and mentioned that Rev 13:5 & Rev 20:4 already took place at beginning of the Millennium.

But there is another beast to lead the war of Gog & Magog at end of the Millennium. He is mentioned in Rev 16:12-21; Rev 19:17-21; and Rev 20:7-10. In the Premil scenario it is rather ridiculous to have another global war against the physically reigning Christ.

... and also the glorified saints!
 
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claninja

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It seems that has been brought up several times in this thread, and yet each time it is brought up I still do not even remotely comprehend what this even means.

The Davidic Monarchy over Israel ended as a result of Solomon's sin
1 Kings 11:11-13 Then the LORD said to Solomon, “Because you have done this and have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded you, I will tear the kingdom away from you and give it to your servant. Nevertheless, for the sake of your father David, I will not do it during your lifetime; I will tear it out of the hand of your son. Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom away from him. I will give one tribe to your son for the sake of My servant David and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen.”

Thus the "tent of David" had fallen. However, it was promised that it would one day be rebuilt by God.
Amos 9:11 In that day I will restore the fallen tent of David. I will repair its gaps, restore its ruins,
and rebuild it as in the days of old,

God had promised that David would never lack a man to sit on the throne.....
Jeremiah 33:17 For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel

.....And that he would place one of his descendants on the throne forever.
2 Samuel 7:13-16
He will build a house for My Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his Father, and he will be My son.b When he does wrong, I will discipline him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men.But My loving devotion will never be removed from him as I removed it from Saul, whom I moved out of your way. Your house and kingdom will endure forever before Me,c and your throne will be established forever.”

Thus God promised one day that he would restore the David Monarchy, through a descendant of David.

The NT reveals that this was fulfilled in Christ:


The angel declares that Jesus is the one to fulfill the promises of the descendant of David
Luke 1:32-33 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”

James declares the gospel was being received by the gentiles in fulfillment of David's fallen tent being rebuilt. The gospel going to the gentiles comes AFTER David's fallen tent being rebuilt.
Acts 15:13-18
When they had finished speaking, James declared, “Brothers, listen to me! Simona has told us how God first visited the Gentiles to take from them a people to be His own. The words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written:‘After this I will return and rebuild the fallen tent of David.
Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,so that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things that have been known for ages.’

Peter declares God fulfilled his promise of putting a descendant on the throne of David, by resurrecting Christ.
Acts 2:30-31 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that He would place one of his descendants on his throne. Foreseeing this, David spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His body see decay.

Paul declares that Jesus is presently reigning
1 corinthians 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

John declares Jesus is the Ruler of the kings of the earth
revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

It is at Christ's ascension that He would receive a kingdom.
Luke 19:12 So He said, “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to lay claim to his kingdom and then return.

Thus, Christ's ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and sending of the Spirit, restored the David Monarchy that had been taken away as a result of Solomon's sins.

How many years was it from the time of David to the time of Christ?........1,000 years.

Thus the parabolic 1,000 years of revelation 20 is symbolic for the restoration of the David monarchy through Christ's 1st coming and what did this result in?

1.) Satan being bound (matthew 12:29, revelation 20:1-3)
2.) Satan having a little season (John 14:30, Romans 16:20, revelation 12:12, revelation 20:3)
3.) Those on thrones given authority to Judge (matthew 19:28, titus 3:5, revelation 20:4)
4.) Those parting in the 1st resurrection becoming a kingdom of priests (ephesians 2:5, 1 Peter 2:9 revelation 20:4).




 
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DavidPT

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That's just a tad bit ironic, where else besides revelation 20, is the 1,000 year reign mentioned?

Ill try and take this one on for now. Getting ready to eat lunch here in a bit.

It has to be somewhere in the Bible though, wouldn't you think? Most Amils claim we are in the thousand years presently, and have been in them for the past 2000 years since the cross. Take 70 AD, for instance. That was obviously prophesied in the Bible, therefore if we have been in the thousand years since the cross, that obviously means we would have been in the thousand years during the events of 70 AD. Yet, where does it even mention the thousand years one single time, in regards to those prophecies?

If you are following my logic here, this example shows, assuming we have been in the thousand years since the cross, the Bible doesn't need to mention the thousand years in other portions of the Bible in order to be in the time of the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20. It should be a given, depending on where one places the thousand years.

In the same way, if a Premil uses Scripture from the OT as proof text for this thousand years in question, it doesn't need to mention the thousand years in any of those OT texts in order for any of those events to be taking place during the thousand years, any more than it would need to mention the thousand years in prophesies having to do with 70 AD, as per that example, in order for that event to be taking place during the thousand years.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Ill try and take this one on for now. Getting ready to eat lunch here in a bit.

It has to be somewhere in the Bible though, wouldn't you think? Most Amils claim we are in the thousand years presently, and have been in them for the past 2000 years since the cross. Take 70 AD, for instance. That was obviously prophesied in the Bible, therefore if we have been in the thousand years since the cross, that obviously means we would have been in the thousand years during the events of 70 AD. Yet, where does it even mention the thousand years one single time, in regards to those prophecies?

If you are following my logic here, this example shows, assuming we have been in the thousand years since the cross, the Bible doesn't need to mention the thousand years in other portions of the Bible in order to be in the time of the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20. It should be a given, depending on where one places the thousand years.

In the same way, if a Premil uses Scripture from the OT as proof text for this thousand years in question, it doesn't need to mention the thousand years in any of those OT texts in order for any of those events to be taking place during the thousand years, any more than it would need to mention the thousand years in prophesies having to do with 70 AD, as per that example, in order for that event to be taking place during the thousand years.

The coming of Titus and AD70 is not central to Amil, only Preterist thinking. But most Amils are not Preterists and would oppose many of their beliefs. Premil has an even bigger problem. They have no corroboration for all their fundamental theories. They force 1,000 years in countless passages where it doesn't exist.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Yes, I realize you did, yet there are still Amils that apparently disagree with you about that. Even though I might be discussing things with you at the time, I'm addressing Amil in general since there are apparently multiple versions of it.

I have already explained this to you, but you seem determined to misrepresent Amil, in order to try and aid Premil.

There is normal Amil and then a distorted quasi-Full Preterist view, that wants to parade itself as Amil to add credibility to its error, but it is not Amil. The millennium is really an illusion. It has recently been forbidden on this forum according to recent Mod statements. That is because of their views on the second coming, resurrection and the NHNE being fulfilled already in AD70. This is heretical!
 
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parousia70

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As an example. Do you have a tv? Is there such a thing as filming events taking place in real time that are taking place in another part of the world and then being able to view these events in real time as well from other locations outside of the region the events are occurring?

Its says EVERY Eye Shall see.. TV's can't supply the vision of the event for every eye on the earth... nor can cell phones or computers... none of them can account for for every eye seeing..... especially the Blind.

What else ya got?
 
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parousia70

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In the same way, if a Premil uses Scripture from the OT as proof text for this thousand years in question, it doesn't need to mention the thousand years in any of those OT texts in order for any of those events to be taking place during the thousand years, any more than it would need to mention the thousand years in prophesies having to do with 70 AD, as per that example, in order for that event to be taking place during the thousand years.

Interesting.
What prophesies do you believe were fulfilled in the 70AD event?
 
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parousia70

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But revelation talks about antichrists both before and after the Millennium!!

Rather, Revelation makes no mention of antichrist(s), anywhere in the book.
 
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mkgal1

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Maybe it'd be helpful to back up a bit and take a more "aerial 10,000 ft view" in describing the main millennial views and their characteristics? I feel as if this discussion is quickly getting bogged down by details (and all the different and conflicting opinions).

For one thing - it's difficult for me to delineate "when Christ reigns" when I believe He ALWAYS has....and always will (no plans or behavior of the ungodly have ever stopped His plan). This verse in Rev 20 (in my belief) is about when Christ Jesus was *revealed as reigning King & High Priest* (the accurate title of John's vision is "the revelation of Christ") - which was the whole purpose (again.....IMB) of the incarnation.....to reveal God's love and mercy for His People (a title know as "Israel"). However.....from that....there are these different views that have been extrapolated from that one verse. I found that Blue Letter Bible has a summary that seems to be fairly thorough but not lengthy (I'll just quote a few general and applicable parts):

Quoting from BLB:
Why Is This Millennium in Question?
Some see this as a future earthly theocracy by which Christ will rule over the nations for a thousand years. Others see it as a time during which Christ will rule earth from heaven through the life-changing power of the Gospel.

Dispensational Premillennialism
Definition:


Dispensational premillennialists hold that Christ will come before a seven-year period of intense tribulation to take His church (living and dead) into heaven. After this period of fulfillment of divine wrath, He shall then return to rule from a holy city (i.e., the New Jerusalem) over the earthly nations for one thousand years. After these thousand years, Satan, who was bound up during Christ's earthly reign, will be loosed to deceive the nations, gather an army of the deceived, and take up to battle against the Lord. This battle will end in both the judgment of the wicked and Satan and the entrance into the eternal state of glory by the righteous. This view is called premillenialism because it places the return of Christ before the millennium and it is called dispensational because it is founded in the doctrines of Daniel 9:24-27). This tribulational period contains the reign of the AntiChrist.



    • Millennium: Christ will return at the end of the great tribulation to institute a thousand-year rule from a holy city (the New Jerusalem). Those who come to believe in Christ during the seventieth week of Daniel (including the 144,000 Jews) and survive will go on to populate the earth during this time. Those who were raptured or raised previous to the tribulational period will reign with Christ over the millennial population.


    • Miscellaneous:


      • Higher degrees of interpreting present-day events in the light of end-times prophecy.
      • The Millennium will see the re-establishment of temple worship and sacrifice as a remembrance of Christ's sacrifice.
      • From the millennium-ending "white throne" judgment (by which Satan and all unbelievers will be thrown into the lake of fire) Christ and all saints will proceed into eternal glory.



    • Major proponents: John Walvoord, Charles Ryrie, Louis Sperry Chafer, J. Dwight Pentecost, Norman Geisler, Charles Stanley, Chuck Smith, and Chuck Missler.

Historical Premillennialism
Definition
:


Historical premillennialists place the return of Christ just before the millennium and just after a time of great apostasy and tribulation. After the millennium, Satan will be loosed and Gog and Magog will rise against the kingdom of God; this will be immediately followed by the final judgment. While similar in some respects to the dispensational variety (in that they hold to Christ's return being previous the establishment of a thousand-year earthly reign), historical premillennialism differs in significant ways (notably in their method of interpreting Scripture).

Features and Distinctions:




    • Favored method of interpretation: grammatico-historical.
    • Israel and the church: The church is the fulfillment of Israel.
    • Kingdom of God: present through the Spirit since Pentecost - to be experienced by sight during the millennium after Christ's return.
    • The Rapture: The saints, living and dead, shall meet the Lord in the clouds immediately preceding the millennial reign.
    • The Millennium: Christ will return to institute a thousand-year reign on earth. The Millennium will see the re-establishment of temple worship and sacrifice as a remembrance of Christ's sacrifice.
    • Major proponents: George Eldon Ladd, Walter Martin, John Warwick Montgomery, and Theodore Zahn.
Synopsis:

View the visual interpretation

The historical premillennialist's view interprets some prophecy in Scripture as having literal fulfillment while others demand a semi-symbolic fulfillment. As a case in point, the seal judgments (Revelation 6) are viewed as having fulfillment in the forces in history (rather than in future powers) by which God works out his redemptive and judicial purposes leading up to the end.

Rather than the belief of an imminent return of Christ, it is held that a number of historical events (e.g., the rise of the Beast and the False Prophet) must take place before Christ's Second Coming. This Second Coming will be accompanied by the resurrection and rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:15-18); this will inaugurate the millennial reign of Christ. The Jewish nation, while being perfectly able to join the church in the belief of a true faith in Christ, has no distinct redemptive plan as they would in the dispensational perspective. The duration of the millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:1-6) is unsure: literal or metaphorical.


Postmillennialism
Definition
:


The postmillennialist believes that the millennium is an era (not a literal thousand years) during which Christ will reign over the earth, not from an literal and earthly throne, but through the gradual increase of the Gospel and its power to change lives. After this gradual Christianization of the world, Christ will return and immediately usher the church into their eternal state after judging the wicked. This is called postmillennialism because, by its view, Christ will return after the millennium.
Features and Distinctions:

Favored method of interpretation: covenant-historical.

      • Israel and the church: the church is the fulfillment of Israel.
      • Kingdom of God: a spiritual entity experienced on earth through the Christianizing affect of the Gospel.
      • The Millennium: a Golden Age previous to Christ's second advent during which Christ will virtually rule over the whole earth through an unprecedented spread of the Gospel; the large majority of people will be Christian.
      • Miscellaneous:
        • Higher degrees of interpreting First Century events in the light of prophecy; preterism often goes hand-in-hand with postmillennialism.
        • Of the several versions of postmillennial eschatology, the reconstructionist's seems to be gaining the most popularity in the world today.
    • Major proponents: Rousas J. Rushdoony, Greg L. Bahnsen, Kenneth L. Gentry Jr., David Chilton, and Gary North.

Amillennialism
[ also termed nunc-millennialism or inaugurated millennialism ]
Definition:


The amillennialist believes that the Kingdom of God was inaugurated at Christ's resurrection (hence the term "inaugurated millennialism") at which point he gained victory over both Satan and the Curse. Christ is even now reigning (hence the term "nunc-millennialism" — nunc means "now") at the right hand of the Father over His church. The term "amillennialism" is actually a misnomer for it implies that Revelation 20:1-6 is ignored; in fact, the amillennialist's hermeneutic interprets it (and in fact, much of apocalyptic literature) non-literally.

Features and Distinctions:




      • Favored method of interpretation: redemptive-historical.
      • Israel and the church: The church is the eschatological fulfillment of Israel.
      • Kingdom of God: a spiritual reality that all Christians partake in and that is seen presently by faith, but will be grasped by sight at the consummation.
      • The Rapture: The saints, living and dead, shall meet the Lord in the clouds and immediately proceed to judge the nations with Christ and then follow Him into their eternal state.
      • The Millennium: inaugurated with Christ's resurrection. In an "already/not yet" sense, Christ already reigns over all and is already victorious over Satan.
      • Miscellaneous:
        • Higher degrees of interpreting prophecy in light of Christ's advent, death, resurrection, and glorification.
        • Relies heavily on a two-age theology.
    • Major proponents: Meredith Kline, Richard Gaffin, Robert B. Strimple, Gregory K. Beale, and John Murray.

 
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