Bill Wiese twenty three minutes in hell?

Do you believe that Bill Wiese is a credible witness of hell?

  • No

    Votes: 17 68.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 4 16.0%
  • Maybe..... .but if so this is scary!

    Votes: 4 16.0%

  • Total voters
    25

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
No he doesn't.

Perhaps he had some sort of vision, but that is all. Once demons apparently torture people, you've left Bible land and entered folklore.

Gives him a good excuse to show horror clips in a church, though.

But Matthew 5
leave the door open to that possibility or why else would the Messiah warn people so clearly about the danger of going downward after death?
 
Upvote 0

Norbert L

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 1, 2009
2,856
1,064
✟560,360.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Hi, Norbert. I don't have the answer to that question, but I would guess it relates to the fact that "paradise" is a rather imprecise term that is understood in quite different ways by different Christians and Christian churches. Some say it's a synonym for Heaven, others that it refers to a kind of Limbo, others to the afterlife in general, and so on. The translators of the ESV may well have wanted to dampen or sidestep that speculation.
Thank you, I asked because I'm a bit lazy and would of liked you to do some homework for me. ^_^ Other than the topic of this thread I'm mainly curious because that word also appears at the crucifixion towards one of the thieves. It is also associated with the tree of life in Revelation 2:7. Given the Genesis account about the tree of life on Earth where then is paradise located? It's a question I haven't fully fleshed out.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: DennisTate
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Thank you, I asked because I'm a bit lazy and would of liked you to do some homework for me. ^_^ Other than the topic of this thread I'm mainly curious because that word also appears at the crucifixion towards one of the thieves.
Indeed it does, but when people read that passage they are divided on what it is telling us. It could mean that the Good Thief was being assured by Christ that he was going to be saved ("in Paradise). OR, it could mean something that's less exciting--that both of them will be passing into the next life shortly and their pain will be over ("this day you will be with me in Paradise.") So this is an example of what I was saying about the word when I answered you earlier.
 
Upvote 0

Blade

Veteran
Supporter
Dec 29, 2002
8,165
3,989
USA
✟629,996.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The man is not here so... what I do is look at what people say and compare to the word of God. There are things some have said that go against the word of God. Case in point is .. we will be standing before the great white throne of God and those found not of God demons will drag you to hell. <---this is not written. Things like this.

For ME in this world we know FEAR works. Case in point "scared straight". Yet we know fear is not of God. God will never use fear to get anyone to believe. It HAS to be a free choice. And then comparing stories about things like this... they do not match up and so many do no fall in line with the word of God.
 
Upvote 0

HatGuy

Some guy in a hat
Jun 9, 2014
1,008
786
Visit site
✟123,338.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But Matthew 5
leave the door open to that possibility or why else would the Messiah warn people so clearly about the danger of going downward after death?
There's nothing in Matthew 5 about demons torturing people.

But Revelation is explicit that any torture hell may be, both Satan and his angels will suffer in it. Not enjoying themselves (Bill Weise's phrase), getting to torture people.

I find generally all these sorts of testimonies into hell that I've heard get this one obvious biblical fact wrong. But it's not a little fact.

Even if one believes the lake of fire and hell are two different things (which can be the case), Peter writes about how these spirits in hell (Tartarus) are themselves in prison. Matthew 5 cannot (and does not) in the slightest indicate that demons torture people in this "prison".
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
There's nothing in Matthew 5 about demons torturing people.

But Revelation is explicit that any torture hell may be, both Satan and his angels will suffer in it. Not enjoying themselves (Bill Weise's phrase), getting to torture people.

I find generally all these sorts of testimonies into hell that I've heard get this one obvious biblical fact wrong. But it's not a little fact.

Even if one believes the lake of fire and hell are two different things (which can be the case), Peter writes about how these spirits in hell (Tartarus) are themselves in prison. Matthew 5 cannot (and does not) in the slightest indicate that demons torture people in this "prison".

You can believe whatever you wish but when you put people who forsake their Creator together with demons who think that the Creator forsook them together...... .stuff happens that is not difficult to predict.


Matthew 5

21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.

29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell.

If I had read this discussion back in 1988 I would have thought that you were correct but....

You really should read or listen to the near death experience account of former Skeptic Howard Storm who now preaches all the time....... and think about what he reports in the light of these scriptures...... .as well as in the light of the ones that Bill Wiese quotes during his sermon.


Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience
Howard Storm's Near-Death Experiencewww.howardstorm.com was a Professor of Art at Northern Kentucky University, was not a very pleasant man by his own admission. He was an avowed atheist and was hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it. He often would use rage to control everyone around him and he didn’t find joy in anything. Anything that wasn’t seen, touched or felt, he had no faith in. He knew with certainty that the material world was the full extent of everything that was. He considered all belief systems associated with religion to be fantasies for people to deceive themselves with. Beyond what science said, there was nothing else. But then on June 1, 1985, at the age of 38, Howard Storm’s had a near-death experience due to a perforation of the stomach and his life was since forever changed. His near-death experience is one of the most profound, if not the most profound, afterlife experience I have ever documented. His life was so immensely changed after his near-death experience, he resigned as a professor and devoted his time attending the United Theological Seminary to become a United Church of Christ minister. Today, Howard Storm is presently happily married to his wife Marcia and was Pastor of the Covington United Church of Christ in Covington, Ohio. During his past time he has maintained his passion for painting but now, unlike in his past, he paints with a God state of mind which raises his paintings to a whole other level. On this website Pastor Storm shares a unique look at his paintings and the effect Jesus Christ has on his daily life and on his paintings. The following is the account of Pastor Howard Storm's near-death experience reprinted by permission.




Table of Contents

1. An Invitation to Hell from Strange Beings
2. A Rescue from Hell by Jesus Christ
3. The Life Review of Howard Storm
4. The Future of the U.S. and the World
5. Howard Storm Learns What Happens After Death
6. Howard Storm Learns He Must Return to Earth
 
Upvote 0

HatGuy

Some guy in a hat
Jun 9, 2014
1,008
786
Visit site
✟123,338.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You can believe whatever you wish but when you put people who forsake their Creator together with demons who think that the Creator forsook them together...... .stuff happens that is not difficult to predict.
Sure, but that is speculation, not the Bible. The Bible literally never says demons torment anyone in hell. Anywhere. Literally no scripture says that. Matthew 5 says nothing of the sort. ThIs isn't a matter of interpretation - Matthew 5 literally says nothing about demons tormenting people in hell.

I can speculate too in many ways, but speculation isn't direct revelation from God and I don't have to pretend as if it is.

In fact, much of this speculation contradicts the Bible, ergo Revelation saying the devil and his angels are tormented themselves in the Lake of Fire, whereas Weise's sort of testimony claims the devil and his angels do the tormenting. That's a contradiction. Moreso, as I already stated, Peter claims the Spirits are locked in Tartarus, he does not claim they torture human beings. Once again, Weise's testimony contradicts Peter's biblical revelation.

Happy to look at Howard Storm for interest, but I do think it's healthy to take extra-biblical testimony for what it is... extra-biblical.
 
Upvote 0

alan650

Junior Member
Oct 19, 2006
328
99
38
✟25,263.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I am surprised at how many people don't believe God would give certain people visions of heaven and hell. I only believe the ones that can align with scripture. Hell is described as a horrifying and eternal place of fire and terror so I still don't understand those who argue against it! They are in such denial and making God into their own image by saying "God wouldn't send people to such a place." Let us repent of trying to know better than God. Thank the Lord Jesus Christ for his sacrifice and salvation!
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I am surprised at how many people don't believe God would give certain people visions of heaven and hell.
I believe it's more the case that "many people" are not persuaded that everybody who claims to have had a vision or to have prophesied must--simply must--be correct about that.

Yet if anyone dares to mention that such events are rare, they are called names and described as being of little faith, against Scripture, or etc.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: DennisTate
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Sure, but that is speculation, not the Bible. The Bible literally never says demons torment anyone in hell. Anywhere. Literally no scripture says that. Matthew 5 says nothing of the sort. ThIs isn't a matter of interpretation - Matthew 5 literally says nothing about demons tormenting people in hell.

I can speculate too in many ways, but speculation isn't direct revelation from God and I don't have to pretend as if it is.

In fact, much of this speculation contradicts the Bible, ergo Revelation saying the devil and his angels are tormented themselves in the Lake of Fire, whereas Weise's sort of testimony claims the devil and his angels do the tormenting. That's a contradiction. Moreso, as I already stated, Peter claims the Spirits are locked in Tartarus, he does not claim they torture human beings. Once again, Weise's testimony contradicts Peter's biblical revelation.

Happy to look at Howard Storm for interest, but I do think it's healthy to take extra-biblical testimony for what it is... extra-biblical.


This stuff would have offended me if I had read it back in 1988 and I must admit that as I waded through more and more of these accounts I went through a pretty serious theological and philosophical crisis.

But the more I research this... the better the pieces of the puzzle fit together.


Matthew 5
"21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire."

So.... people who are angry with their brother without a cause are headed in the direction of hell.......
that sure fits with this account:

Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience
d. His Description of the Horrors of Hell

They were still somewhere on the surface of the Earth; but no living person or beings of light could be seen. Before them was a plain jammed with hordes of spirits who are the most miserable and angriest beings he has ever seen. Many were engaged in hand-to-hand combat with no weapons - trying in vain to hurt and kill those who didn't agree with them. A lot of verbal abuse could be heard between them as their thoughts could be heard by everyone around them the moment they are thought. Ritchie is horrified as he wonders what living in such a realm would be like - a place where you cannot hide from who you really are. These spirits were locked into destructive thought-patterns, rage and uncontrollable lust. Some were trying in vain to get sexual gratification from each other. The wailing coming from the hordes of unsatisfied spirits was tremendous. Other spirits were in despair saying things such as, "I always knew!" and "Didn't I warn you!" Ritchie realizes this place is truly hell. Their obsessive thoughts and emotions extended beyond the physical realm and into the spiritual realm where they cannot be satisfied. Yet there was nothing preventing any of the poor spirits in these realms from leaving. There was no condemnation coming from Jesus either - only compassion for these miserable spirits. Ritchie realizes Jesus hadn't abandoned any of them here. Instead they fled from the light to escape from having the darkness of their heart from being revealed.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
I believe it's more the case that "many people" are not persuaded that everybody who claims to have had a vision or to have prophesied must--simply must--be correct about that.

Yet if anyone dares to mention that such events are rare, they are called names and described as being of little faith, against Scripture, or etc.


I found this information profoundly offensive at first but I did run into an explanation of why they seemed to be rather rare.


 
Upvote 0

jimmyjimmy

Pardoned Rebel
Supporter
Jan 2, 2015
11,556
5,728
USA
✟234,973.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Do you believe that Bill Wiese described what he experienced to the very best of his ability?

Back in 1988 I would have thought that he was making this up because back then I was a firm believer in the Soul Sleep theory.

Since beginning to study near death experience accounts in 1990 I have changed my mind and I no longer believe in Soul Sleep.

Bill Wiese does an exceptional job of going through all the scriptures related to the subject of hell.


23 Minutes in Hell With Guest Speaker Bill Wiese



Hogwash meant for indiscriminate fools.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: DennisTate
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Hogwash meant for indiscriminate fools.

In 1988 before beginning the study of near death experience accounts that is pretty much what I thought myself.... .but now I am convinced that back in those days I was terribly in error on the full meaning of many powerful scriptures.

So then what exactly was Jesus warning us about in Matthew 5 ?


29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell.
 
Upvote 0

jimmyjimmy

Pardoned Rebel
Supporter
Jan 2, 2015
11,556
5,728
USA
✟234,973.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
In 1988 before beginning the study of near death experience accounts that is pretty much what I thought myself.... .but now I am convinced that back in those days I was terribly in error on the full meaning of many powerful scriptures.

So then what exactly was Jesus warning us about in Matthew 5 ?


29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell.

Hell is real. Returning from eternal condemnation is not.
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Hell is real. Returning from eternal condemnation is not.

Thank you for that clarification of your beliefs at this time.

I would suggest a study on Ezekiel 37
if you would like to increase your level of hope for the lost.

Multiverse Theory, multiple Ezekiel 37 events and the unification of Calvinism with Universalism?

37 The hand of Jehovah was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of Jehovah, and set me down in the midst of the valley; and it was full of bones.

2 And he caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord Jehovah, thou knowest.

4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy over these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of Jehovah.

5 Thus saith the Lord Jehovah unto these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live.

6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am Jehovah.

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and, behold, an earthquake; and the bones came together, bone to its bone.

8 And I beheld, and, lo, there were sinews upon them, and flesh came up, and skin covered them above; but there was no breath in them.

9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are clean cut off.

12 Therefore prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, O my people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am Jehovah, when I have opened your graves, and caused you to come up out of your graves, O my people.

14 And I will put my Spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I will place you in your own land: and ye shall know that I, Jehovah, have spoken it and performed it, saith Jehovah.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

nonaeroterraqueous

Nonexistent Member
Aug 16, 2014
2,915
2,724
✟188,987.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
...much of this speculation contradicts the Bible, ergo Revelation saying the devil and his angels are tormented themselves in the Lake of Fire, whereas Weise's sort of testimony claims the devil and his angels do the tormenting.

Those two ideas are not mutually exclusive. We see a shadow of things to come in the world we live. We see a little Paradise and a little Hell. We have the food chain, where the animals of creation devour each other as monsters. We have our planet, on an irreversible descent into higher levels of entropy, saved only by the life bestowed upon us from above.

What we see in Weise's Hell is the worst of our world, minus it's salvation. We see life destroying life, to steal what morsel that might be scraped from the bones of one who has not yet lost everything. A man who enters there is the only source of life trickled over from a world where blessings abounded. The monsters of Hell torment because they are tormented. It's analogous to saying that they destroy and devour because their own hunger destroys and devours them.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: DennisTate
Upvote 0

JSRG

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2019
1,400
786
Midwest
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I agree, "colorsblend." And it is worth noting that NDE's overwhelmingly deal with perceptions, experiences, etc. that 1) relate to THIS world 2) WHILE the person was dead or thought to be dead and 3) are verifiable.

The people who tell us what hell is like--and they do not agree with each other about that, which itself casts doubt upon their tales--are far fewer in number.
This second paragraph of yours is something that needs to be especially stressed. Here is the simple problem I have with the experiences of Bill Wiese and others regarding NDEs (or those who, while not near death, have experiences where they either see or are temporarily transported to the afterlife). They contradict. A lot. Their descriptions of the afterlife don't match up with each other.

So why should I give credence to Bill Wiese over the various testimonies that, in one way or another, contradicts his account? Why shouldn't I be listening to them instead? Since there's no way to figure out which afterlife experiences (if any) are true, I feel one might as well just ignore them altogether when trying to determine the truth. Maybe Bill Wiese's experience was real, maybe it wasn't, but since there's no way for me to tell if it was more or less real than any experiences that contradict his, I can't trust it any more than those.
 
Upvote 0

LightLoveHope

Jesus leads us to life
Oct 6, 2018
1,473
458
London
✟79,581.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
You can believe whatever you wish but when you put people who forsake their Creator together with demons who think that the Creator forsook them together...... .stuff happens that is not difficult to predict.


Matthew 5

21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.

29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell.

If I had read this discussion back in 1988 I would have thought that you were correct but....

You really should read or listen to the near death experience account of former Skeptic Howard Storm who now preaches all the time....... and think about what he reports in the light of these scriptures...... .as well as in the light of the ones that Bill Wiese quotes during his sermon.


Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience




Table of Contents

1. An Invitation to Hell from Strange Beings
2. A Rescue from Hell by Jesus Christ
3. The Life Review of Howard Storm
4. The Future of the U.S. and the World
5. Howard Storm Learns What Happens After Death
6. Howard Storm Learns He Must Return to Earth

Torturing demons?
Job was given illness, sores, boils, but not a torturing demon.
And for what purpose is torture done in this way? What does it achieve?

Gods judgement is normally simple, destroy the people who have been warned.
Gone, out of the way. Lets get on with what is important.

Torturing with demons seems to be a fascination with revenge, bringing about pain and suffering to a degree that is disproportionate to the crime.

As humans when someone upsets us, a teacher in school, our boss, a spouse, what is our response? To say a few words or to physically respond and do something?

So emotionally we are totally disproportionate. Jesus teaches us to turn the other cheek, to stand back and let love and the actual situation speak to what is appropriate.
So a life lived as a normal individual lost and never quite getting things together will be rewarded with an eternity with evil demons, torturing you in the worst ways possible for their own devious reasons. Sounds like nothing to do with God, love and righteousness at all.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: DennisTate
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
This second paragraph of yours is something that needs to be especially stressed. Here is the simple problem I have with the experiences of Bill Wiese and others regarding NDEs (or those who, while not near death, have experiences where they either see or are temporarily transported to the afterlife). They contradict. A lot. Their descriptions of the afterlife don't match up with each other.
My point was a bit different from that, however. I was saying that most NDEs do not produce accounts of the person having travelled to any state in the afterlife, such as heaven or hell or anywhere else like that. At best, they tell of meeting Jesus or some other such figure. But this is not the detailed travelogue-type account of "what hell (or heaven) is like" that makes for book sales.

Overwhelmingly, they report on experiences that their souls (apparently) experienced while still in this realm, such as having heard what the doctors and nurses said while the person supposedly lay dead or what was seen in other places on Earth.

So why should I give credence to Bill Wiese over the various testimonies that, in one way or another, contradicts his account? Why shouldn't I be listening to them instead? Since there's no way to figure out which afterlife experiences (if any) are true, I feel one might as well just ignore them altogether when trying to determine the truth. Maybe Bill Wiese's experience was real, maybe it wasn't, but since there's no way for me to tell if it was more or less real than any experiences that contradict his, I can't trust it any more than those.
That's a valid point.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: DennisTate
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Torturing demons?
Job was given illness, sores, boils, but not a torturing demon.
And for what purpose is torture done in this way? What does it achieve?

Gods judgement is normally simple, destroy the people who have been warned.
Gone, out of the way. Lets get on with what is important.

Torturing with demons seems to be a fascination with revenge, bringing about pain and suffering to a degree that is disproportionate to the crime.

As humans when someone upsets us, a teacher in school, our boss, a spouse, what is our response? To say a few words or to physically respond and do something?

So emotionally we are totally disproportionate. Jesus teaches us to turn the other cheek, to stand back and let love and the actual situation speak to what is appropriate.
So a life lived as a normal individual lost and never quite getting things together will be rewarded with an eternity with evil demons, torturing you in the worst ways possible for their own devious reasons. Sounds like nothing to do with God, love and righteousness at all.


There is a saying that Favor is not Fair..... well guess what.......
vengeance is not exactly fair either.


In my opinion at this time.... TIME is an invention..... comparable to a canoe, bicycle, car, Beoing 747, yacht or oil tanker...... TIME is like a vehicle invented by our Creator to take Souls from point A to point B to point C........



For the record it has taken me from 1990 until now to have an answer to this question and this discussion begins to give hints at that answer.


Multiverse Theory, multiple Ezekiel 37 events and the unification of Calvinism with Universalism?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0