The Truth About Abortion

SPF

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and that’s just wrong what you have is a fertilized egg that if it doesn’t implant within a few days will just disintegrate or might grow into a small mass and just die. Coffee seems to think that’s murder even though up to 50% of fertilized eggs will die naturally due to developmental issues. I wonder if she thinks she murders every time she had her period and those unfertilized eggs disintegrate.
Responding to you is often like talking to the air because you tend to ignore responses that actually provide substance, but here goes anyway.

Sin entering the world messed a lot of things up. So the fact that miscarriages happen doesn’t somehow excuse the intentional and purposeful killing of unborn children.

Also, unfertilized eggs are not human beings, they are unfertilized eggs.

Again, the developmental period of a human being lasts about 25 years. Yet at no point during our development are we not a human being.

As a Christian, I assume you believe that all humans are created in the image of God and possess inherent moral worth and value.

The fact that you shrug your shoulders and support abortion is tragic. There is no valid reason to discriminate against humans because of their level of development, dependency, or location of residence.

You’ve never been able to actually defend that position, and I don’t suspect you’ll be able to now.
 
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redleghunter

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and that’s just wrong what you have is a fertilized egg that if it doesn’t implant within a few days will just disintegrate or might grow into a small mass and just die. Coffee seems to think that’s murder even though up to 50% of fertilized eggs will die naturally due to developmental issues. I wonder if she thinks she murders every time she had her period and those unfertilized eggs disintegrate.
Perhaps you are conflating a bit here between what is human life and the survival.

Also conflating what happens when there is human intervention (abortion) and with no human intervention. The Jedi mind trick does not work here.

I explained earlier. Just because 90% of all pedestrian deaths occur due to cars going off the road and killing pedestrians does not constitute justification for people to intentionally drive on the sidewalk and plow people to their deaths.
 
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redleghunter

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all mammals suffer during the birth process . Other species do as well. Humans are mammals. why do you have the mistaken idea that this painful birth process is something special or unique to humans?
Have to call in an expert here in @Mountainmanbob I have witnessed several human births and have seen farm animals give birth. Unless there is a complication with the female animal there is no comparison to human birth. I witnessed a pregnant goat I just hand fed turn away moments later and give birth. And then see a male try to mate with her moments later.
 
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redleghunter

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Christians live by the New Testament. We are not of this world.
Yes. Is not an innocent life dependent on their mother to be? Are they not considered our neighbor and we are to do unto them as we would want them to do unto us?
 
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SamanthaAnastasia

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Yes. Is not an innocent life dependent on their mother to be? Are they not considered our neighbor and we are to do unto them as we would want them to do unto us?
Yes but we cannot force them. It makes me sad they don’t care
 
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Robert6671

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Life in all forms is a blessing, no matter the suffering one may experience. Even "normal, healthy people" will suffer.

You know I was gonna let it go..do you know how foolish that sound..life in all its forms is a blessing. Tell me is the person with dememtia who does not know who what or where he or she is..who scream in fear from nurses taking care of them or the slow painful prosses of there body shutting down. I know a story about a guy caught in a fire and had most of his body burned to a crisp..freggy kruger level burns. His family all fought for him to keep living...he wanted to be allowed to die, he had to fight suffer horribly to get the right. I have seen people born with the most horrible disablities and sickeness, every moment of there life agony, you might think life is blessing but to many who are suffering horrible lives because some person like you decideds that there life is worth something. If I got burned like that guy I read about..I would want to die. The fact that the burns did not kill him in the first place was a miracle or cruel joke. My mom finally said enough, all but two of her kids were grown and her two yougest were taken care of...she gave up the fight..she allowed her self to be medicated so she would not suffer anymore and a few days later passed. Know one fought that because she was in so much pain. All forms of life are not a blessing..maybe thats your oppinion...and the oppinion has actually some basis in law so people are suffering horribly are forced to suffer to make you feel like righteous
 
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tryphena rose

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You know I was gonna let it go..do you know how foolish that sound..life in all its forms is a blessing. Tell me is the person with dememtia who does not know who what or where he or she is..who scream in fear from nurses taking care of them or the slow painful prosses of there body shutting down. I know a story about a guy caught in a fire and had most of his body burned to a crisp..freggy kruger level burns. His family all fought for him to keep living...he wanted to be allowed to die, he had to fight suffer horribly to get the right. I have seen people born with the most horrible disablities and sickeness, every moment of there life agony, you might think life is blessing but to many who are suffering horrible lives because some person like you decideds that there life is worth something. If I got burned like that guy I read about..I would want to die. The fact that the burns did not kill him in the first place was a miracle or cruel joke. My mom finally said enough, all but two of her kids were grown and her two yougest were taken care of...she gave up the fight..she allowed her self to be medicated so she would not suffer anymore and a few days later passed. Know one fought that because she was in so much pain. All forms of life are not a blessing..maybe thats your oppinion...and the oppinion has actually some basis in law so people are suffering horribly are forced to suffer to make you feel like righteous
“For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.” Romans 8:22

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us." Romans 8:18

Are you God that you can determine the value of another's life? Your reasoning is reminiscent of an athiest's who argues that because there is so much pain and suffering in the world, that there lies the very reason a loving and just God could not possibly exist, leaving our very existence in a relative and meaningless state. Every single person and creature on this earth is going to experience suffering to one extent or another due to the fall of sin. I'm sure you've experienced such pain, just as have I, just as has everyone else in this forum. You say that I speak these things to feel as sort of self righteousness, well thank you for speaking such false witness against a sister in Christ.

Anything I post on here, I do so with the intent of keeping a Biblical and sound world view and hopefully to help others from adopting a worldly, unChrist-like point of view. Staying on topic, pain and suffering in the world does not give justification for a woman to end her babies life via abortion. And that's the end of the argument for me.
 
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Llewelyn Stevenson

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Why do we always end up discussing such matters as risk when talking of abortion when it is obvious that the church's disgust with it was when it became for purely cosmetic reasons or to cover up infidelity and like things?

Yes, in the case of risk there are testimonies from both sides, and one is sympathetic in such circumstances but when it becomes purely for selfish advantage and because you do not want to keep God's morals it is just plain sin, the same as greed. The Bible does not condone either.
 
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Kenny'sID

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.my mom had one..she didnt want to but she had cancer and the chemo aside she could not have carried to term..the child would have died and she might have died and she still had several children under the age of 5. And when I hear a preacher going on about how its against gods law and how anyone who has an abortion will burn in hell. I lost my mom 2 years ago she finally lost her battle with cancer. My intention was to rant.

As I began to suspect, this was about your being somehow attached to an abortion case.

It's not so easily done when you're angry, but you need to realize those against abortion, most of them realize there are cases like your mothers where abortion is justified.

Those that feel it is not ever justified and that we'll go to hell no matter what if we abort are...can I say "idiots" here? Those are the fanatics and people that are unable, or refuse to use a logical thought process or have compassion towards others....they are nut cases that often love feeling superior at the expense of others. You only need to separate their ideas from the ideas that matter.

So don't worry about your Mom, her reasons were justified to anyone in their right mind.

I'm sorry you lost your Mom.
 
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Brightmoon

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Have to call in an expert here in @Mountainmanbob I have witnessed several human births and have seen farm animals give birth. Unless there is a complication with the female animal there is no comparison to human birth. I witnessed a pregnant goat I just hand fed turn away moments later and give birth. And then see a male try to mate with her moments later.
non human mammals tend to have faster labors because humans have oversized heads. That doesn’t mean they aren’t painful or life threatening to the mother.
 
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Brightmoon

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This is to all those people who think an abortion is done for “convenience“ and that it’s ok to force a woman to undergo a pregnancy when she doesn’t want it.
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Brightmoon

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I didn’t photo the Huge list of common Temporary ailments associated with pregnancy but they’re also on that webpage. I’m not ever going to join the women-can-just pop-out-children-and-give-em-up-for-adoption crowd. And denigrating women with real problems with pregnancy as doing abortions for “convenience“ is simply cruel and it’s also misleading
 
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SPF

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I didn’t photo the Huge list of common Temporary ailments associated with pregnancy but they’re also on that webpage. I’m not ever going to join the women-can-just pop-out-children-and-give-em-up-for-adoption crowd. And denigrating women with real problems with pregnancy as doing abortions for “convenience“ is simply cruel and it’s also misleading
Yes, we know you’re perfectly content with the idea that God is OK and supports women intentionally and purposefully having His Creation made in His own Image possessing inherent moral worth and value killed for their own convenience reasons.

For anyone else less closed minded reading, please understand these points:

1. All human beings, regardless of their level of development, dependency, or place of residency are equally created in the image of God and possess inherent moral worth and value.

2. Thanks to advancements in science, we now know that a new human being comes into existence and begins their 25 year developmental period at fertilization.

3. 98.5% of abortions are committed for non-medical emergency reasons, and based upon 1 and 2 are therefore immoral and wrong.

As a foster parent and someone very involved in this area, I regularly work with DFCS and can tell you there are more people willing to adopt newborns than there are newborns available.
 
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Brightmoon

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There are thousands of adoptable children who haven been adopted because they aren’t newborns or have medical problems or are just older. . It’s still wrong to force an unwanted pregnancy on a woman . Women aren’t just vessels for babies even though for centuries we were treated like that due to religious based misogyny


I recently ( a year before this thread started) found out that this was how my paternal grandmother died- during childbirth after having 2 healthy children. A maternal great grandmother had about 15 children and she wasn’t legally allowed to tell her husband no. If birth control had been legal in the late 1800s and early 1900s I used to wonder what her life would have been like. she got sick with every single one of those 15 pregnancies (My grandmother said her father wasn’t abusive) It’s not just abortion rights that are at risk . The access to birth control is also at risk . And they’re passing ridiculous burdensome laws on women over reproductive health They have a proposed law in another state (thankfully not mine) that ectopic pregnancies have to be reimplanted ( which is medically impossible) . Despite all the noise coming from the so called pro lifers most people ( 8 out of 10) want to leave Roe alone because we don’t want to see “coat hanger abortions” come back
 
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redleghunter

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SPF

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It’s still wrong to force an unwanted pregnancy on a woman
But it is morally acceptable to kill an innocent, dependent human being that possesses the same inherent moral worth and value as you do?

Your problem is that you disregard the life of the unborn as less valuable than those located outside the womb. A position that might be defensible in a world with no God, but we know God IS real and we know that God made human beings unique and morally valuable because we are made in His Image.

You deny this truth every time you disregard the unborn as morally worthless and promote their death for any reason the mother wants.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Women aren’t just vessels for babies



even though for centuries we were treated like that due to religious based misogyny


I recently ( a year before this thread started) found out that this was how my paternal grandmother died- during childbirth after having 2 healthy children. A maternal great grandmother had about 15 children and she wasn’t legally allowed to tell her husband no. If birth control had been legal in the late 1800s and early 1900s I used to wonder what her life would have been like. she got sick with every single one of those 15 pregnancies (My grandmother said her father wasn’t abusive) It’s not just abortion rights that are at risk . The access to birth control is also at risk . And they’re passing ridiculous burdensome laws on women over reproductive health They have a proposed law in another state (thankfully not mine) that ectopic pregnancies have to be reimplanted ( which is medically impossible) . Despite all the noise coming from the so called pro lifers most people ( 8 out of 10) want to leave Roe alone because we don’t want to see “coat hanger abortions” come back

Then unless wanted maybe they should be careful to not get pregnant.

Men also share in the same responsibility.

Saves a lot of later in life sorrow.

M-Bob
 
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Greengardener

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This is to all those people who think an abortion is done for “convenience“ and that it’s ok to force a woman to undergo a pregnancy when she doesn’t want it. View attachment 270934 View attachment 270935 View attachment 270936 View attachment 270937
The risk of health issues is real, and all the more in our inadequate American diet. The risk of surgical intervention is real, and the risk of complications once a surgeon starts cutting on the body is also real (and thankfully rare). Women should take all of this into consideration before planning a pregnancy, since this is the first big opportunity to either set that child up for an effective life or place the first huge hurdle in the way of that life. The responsibility for that child's life starts before conception, and the ability to birth a person made in the image of God is not something to be taken lightly by anyone with their brain cells working. Still, many people don't consider that when they are intentionally or unintentionally making new humans.

From my work history I feel I can say that the lack of foresight created the situation where women chose abortion in most of the abortion cases I knew. In some cases, abortion was offered where there was concerning fetal testing, but even where the prenatal testing predicted dire results, I've known of cases that were not nearly as dire as predicted. One case that touched my heart was a woman who delivered a child who only lived 11 days. When she told me the story, I knew that she would never have considered cutting that child's life short for her own convenience by a preterm delivery, certainly not something as awful as cutting up the child inside her body. As her situation played out, she went through it with no regret in any of her actions, even in grieving the loss of her firstborn. She birthed, she held the baby, she tried all she could to encourage the child to live until she became aware that it just wasn't to be. In my mind, when someone who chose as she did faces questions, her mind will remind her that she did all she could. For the woman who chose the abortion, my concern is that she will always face the "what if?" - what if the child had been less dire, even normal? And since this is a Christian forum, we need to consider that for the Christian woman, the Scripture is clear that in love we lay down our lives for our beloved. As Brightmoon pointed out, women do this with every pregnancy. In cases of rape or assault, my prayer would be that this victimized woman have someone to help her through the situation. Even in an anticipated and normal pregnancy with a strong, healthy woman, I'm not a fan of any woman having to take on the changes and vulnerability of pregnancy alone.

I appreciate the list of difficulties that Brightmoon shared, but one must also consider that abortions put the woman's body through much, if not all, the same risk. The way I see it, once pregnant, there is no easy resolution. I could share about botched abortions and mishandled deliveries - suffice it to know that these also exist.

God arranged for the protection of women in the Scriptures. Living the way He says would keep most of us from experiencing an unwanted pregnancy. Even if the pregnancy is unwanted or unintended, of all the people involved it's not the child's fault, so the child shouldn't have to be punished with the death penalty for it. For those who decide not to walk that careful path, forethought and preventive measures (keep oneself safe, don't trust strangers, guard your drink, don't get so high that you can't watch out for yourself, use a barrier and spermicide if you do choose to have sex but think it through and realize what that risk is really costing you before you are in the situation) could keep any woman from facing an unwanted or inconvenient pregnancy. That would take care of more than 90% of the abortions performed since Roe vs. Wade. I can only imagine that most of those 54 million would have been nice people had we met them.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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I will deal with facts here, look at a fetus at 12 weeks you can google it, tell me thats not a human being..if you can say thats not a human being there your either dillusional or a professional liar. Many of the practices in the abortion industry are an abomination.

Now I am going to tell other Christians here a simple fact, god does not acknowlege an unborn child as a human being in the bible. Gods says it, if you cause a woman to lose her child you have to pay her a fine for the loss, if you kill a human being god says you are to be put to death. So Christians I am sorry according to the bible its not murder.

Now my stance, a fetus is a human being and and abortion is murder in my personal oppinon.
It should stay legal in only two cases, one if a woman is a victim of rape and even then it to be in the first 2 or 3 months, take into account shock but if you wait 6 months then decide you want an abortion..thats sick because at 6 months the child can survive with medical assistancce.

Secondly for medical reason such as the mother not being able to carry to term...case in point a woman in ireland was miscarrying and they would not remove the baby cause the heart was beating, the child was dead short of jesus christ coming down from the heavens that baby was going to die. But they waited for heart to stop..she got an inffection because of it and died.

Abortion should not be a form of brith control. If you do not want kids uses condoms and the pill or better yet keep your legs closed and pants zipped.

Christians your stance on abortion is not a religious issue...its moral personal one so get over the god says it abortion bit cause he done not consider and unborn child a human being according to the bible..sorry

Cool. If you feel that way, I encourage you to make choices for yourself based off of these personal principles.
 
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