Who Wrote the Qumran Scrolls?

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Is that a problem somehow, if she is right ?

Shabbat shalom, Jeff. It's good to hear from you again.

Far be it! If she is correct; her arguments provide answers to questions that have been puzzling me for quite some time. If true however (and I believe it is) I'm left with many more questions.

The God Culture presents similar arguments:


 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Far be it! If she is correct; her arguments provide answers to questions that have been puzzling me for quite some time. If true however (and I believe it is) I'm left with many more questions.
COOL, and likewise Yeshua's Shabbat Shalom (Peace, Joy, Healing ) to you and your household today....

Were the questions that puzzled you important questions , and not answered in Scripture ?
 
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COOL, and likewise Yeshua's Shabbat Shalom (Peace, Joy, Healing ) to you and your household today....

Were the questions that puzzled you important questions , and not answered in Scripture ?

These questions are many which are not blatantly answered answered by canonical scripture. However, with the aid of historical references, and Qumran writings, add clarity to canonical scripture.

For example, there are quotes of scripture referenced in the Brit Chadasha, which cannot be found in the canonical Torah. They can however be found in the Qumran scrolls.

Another question: How was Yahshua lawfully anointed king? I believe that as Zechariah was John the Baptists' father; the Zadok priesthood was transferred to John; and that John, as High priest, anointed Yahshua near Qumran.

1024px-Sapsaphas_Madaba.jpg
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I don't think those are necessarily accurate quotes/referenced mentioned/ of Yahweh's Word.
They may be, subject of course to testing as the Bereans were noted for.

For example, there are quotes of scripture referenced in the Brit Chadasha, which cannot be found in the canonical Torah. They can however be found in the Qumran scrolls.
=============================================

The first thing I thought of was not about His being anointed King,
but being High Priest by Promise (re Hebrews, maybe elsewhere?) ...

As Yahweh has nothing higher than Himself to swear by, His Word , His Promise, is higher than any other possible 'guarantee', and is unchangeable eternally, perfect in every way and always accomplished.

Being anointed King, perhaps some other reader knows a bit ?

There is no question at all that it is perfectly righteous in every way, with no shadow at all, with no iniquity, but only pure holiness and righteousness ... as revealed by Yahweh to "little children", as written.

Another question: How was Yahshua lawfully anointed king?
 
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I don't think those are necessarily accurate quotes/referenced mentioned/ of Yahweh's Word.
They may be, subject of course to testing as the Bereans were noted for.

Here's a good one:

Matthew 11 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

4 Yeshua answered, “Go and tell Yochanan what you are hearing and seeing — 5 the blind are seeing again, the lame are walking, people with tzara’at are being cleansed, the deaf are hearing,a]">[a] the dead are being raised,b]"> the Good News is being told to the poor


Qumran scroll 4Q521.
Also known as the messianic apocalypse.
[...for the

heav]ens and the earth will listen to his anointed one, [and all] that is in them will not turn away from the precepts of the holy ones. Strengthen yourselves, you who are seeking the Lord, in his service! Will you not in this encounter the Lord, all those who hope in their heart? For the Lord will consider the pious and call the righteous by name, and his spirit will hover upon the poor, and he will renew the faithful with his strength. For he will honor the pious upon the throne of an eternal kingdom, freeing prisoners, giving sight to the blind, straightening out the twis[ted.] And for[e]ver shall I cling to [those who] hope, and in his mercy [...] and the fru[it of ...] not be delayed. And the Lord will perform marvellous acts such as have not existed, just as he sa[id, for] he will heal the badly wounded and will make the dead live; he will proclaim good news to the poor and [...] he will lead the [...] and enrich the hungry. [...] and all [....]



Nowhere in canonical scripture can a reference for the bold red be found.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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? To clarify, what makes it good ? By what purpose or comparison in and for Yahweh's Kingdom ? (as in seek first Yahweh's Kingdom, and His Righteousness being what is important....

Here's a good one:
=========================================================

And this helps, hurts, or matters why ? Specifically or generally...... ? Is it part of seeking truth, and keep seeking truth ? (which of course includes these questions and more: test everything until it is proven true, or don't accept it nor rely on it)
Nowhere in canonical scripture can a reference for the bold red be found.
 
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? To clarify, what makes it good ? By what purpose or comparison in and for Yahweh's Kingdom ? (as in seek first Yahweh's Kingdom, and His Righteousness being what is important....


=========================================================

And this helps, hurts, or matters why ? Specifically or generally...... ? Is it part of seeking truth, and keep seeking truth ? (which of course includes these questions and more: test everything until it is proven true, or don't accept it nor rely on it)

Most of what Yahshsua was written to have said, was quoting the Torah. He was teaching us the Torah. The more examples we have, of what he taught; the more opportunities we have to learn a lesson.
 
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Most of what Yahshsua was written to have said, was quoting the Torah. He was teaching us the Torah. The more examples we have, of what he taught; the more opportunities we have to learn a lesson.
What do you mean by Torah? Because Jesus contradicted the books of Moses several times, regarding hating the enemy, regarding divorce etc.
 
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What do you mean by Torah? Because Jesus contradicted the books of Moses several times, regarding hating the enemy, regarding divorce etc.
Shabbat shalom



By Torah, or, תורה, I mean instruction. I reject that any of the תורה given to Moshe was contradicted by Yahshua at any time.

I can think of three possibilities for any purported contradiction:

I.) The purported contradiction was given to Moshe; but it was omitted from the Canon. Just because some men came after Yahshua, and rejected scripture in their Canon; does not mean that Yahshua rejected scripture.


Matthew 22:23-32

On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him, asking, "Teacher, Moses said, 'IF A MAN DIES HAVING NO CHILDREN, HIS BROTHER AS NEXT OF KIN SHALL MARRY HIS WIFE, AND RAISE UP CHILDREN FOR HIS BROTHER.' "Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother;read more.
so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. "Last of all, the woman died. "In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her." But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. "But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Did Jesus Quote from the Book of Enoch ?
It is possible Jesus confirmed the Book of Enoch by calling it Scripture, even quoting from it. There is a phrase in Matthew 22:30 which is close to a quote from the Book of Enoch. Jesus teaches a principle that angels in heaven don’t marry, but this principle isn’t found anywhere in the Old Testament. It is found only in the book of Enoch. Since the book of Enoch was found with the Qumran Texts (Dead Sea Scrolls), we know it was in existence during the time of Christ. Is it conceivable that Christ was quoting from the Book of Enoch?

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven”. (Mat 22:30)
But you were ⌈formerly⌉ spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling”. (Book of Enoch 15:6-7)

2.) The Torah, as given to Moshe was changed:

Jeremiah 8 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise;
Adonai’s Torah is with us,”
when in fact the lying pen of the scribes
has turned it into falsehood?

3.) Either the translator or the reader, has misinterpreted the Torah given to Moshe.
 
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Shabbat shalom



By Torah, or, תורה, I mean instruction. I reject that any of the תורה given to Moshe was contradicted by Yahshua at any time.

I can think of three possibilities for any purported contradiction:

I.) The purported contradiction was given to Moshe; but it was omitted from the Canon. Just because some men came after Yahshua, and rejected scripture in their Canon; does not mean that Yahshua rejected scripture.


Matthew 22:23-32

On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him, asking, "Teacher, Moses said, 'IF A MAN DIES HAVING NO CHILDREN, HIS BROTHER AS NEXT OF KIN SHALL MARRY HIS WIFE, AND RAISE UP CHILDREN FOR HIS BROTHER.' "Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother;read more.
so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. "Last of all, the woman died. "In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her." But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. "But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Did Jesus Quote from the Book of Enoch ?
It is possible Jesus confirmed the Book of Enoch by calling it Scripture, even quoting from it. There is a phrase in Matthew 22:30 which is close to a quote from the Book of Enoch. Jesus teaches a principle that angels in heaven don’t marry, but this principle isn’t found anywhere in the Old Testament. It is found only in the book of Enoch. Since the book of Enoch was found with the Qumran Texts (Dead Sea Scrolls), we know it was in existence during the time of Christ. Is it conceivable that Christ was quoting from the Book of Enoch?

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven”. (Mat 22:30)
But you were ⌈formerly⌉ spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling”. (Book of Enoch 15:6-7)

2.) The Torah, as given to Moshe was changed:

Jeremiah 8 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise;
Adonai’s Torah is with us,”
when in fact the lying pen of the scribes
has turned it into falsehood?

3.) Either the translator or the reader, has misinterpreted the Torah given to Moshe.
So, how do you define Torah, exactly? From what verse to what verse? Or is it something everybody must choose for themselves?
 
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So, how do you define Torah, exactly? From what verse to what verse? Or is it something everybody must choose for themselves?

2 Timothy 2:15 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
15 Do all you can to present yourself to God as someone worthy of his approval, as a worker with no need to be ashamed, because he deals straightforwardly with the Word of the Truth.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
21 But do test everything — hold onto what is good,


John 16:13 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
13 However, when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative but will say only what he hears. He will also announce to you the events of the future.


I pray to YHWH that his Ruach give me discernment for his truth. Others trust to choose for themselves; yet others trust to choose men to choose for them.
 
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2 Timothy 2:15 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
15 Do all you can to present yourself to God as someone worthy of his approval, as a worker with no need to be ashamed, because he deals straightforwardly with the Word of the Truth.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
21 But do test everything — hold onto what is good,


John 16:13 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
13 However, when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative but will say only what he hears. He will also announce to you the events of the future.


I pray to YHWH that his Ruach give me discernment for his truth. Others trust to choose for themselves; yet others trust to choose men to choose for them.
Is there the word "Torah" somewhere in the whole New Testament? If not, why?
 
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Is there the word "Torah" somewhere in the whole New Testament? If not, why?

The word Torah (תורה) is Hebrew. Most of the oldest copies of the Brit Chadasha (The Renewed Covenant) are translated in Greek. We don't have the autographs. The Greek translation for the word for Torah (תורה) is Nomos (νόμος).
 
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The word Torah (תורה) is Hebrew. Most of the oldest copies of the Brit Chadasha (The Renewed Covenant) are translated in Greek. We don't have the autographs. The Greek translation for the word for Torah (תורה) is Nomos (νόμος).
Nomos means "law". But you seem to teach that torah does not equal to the law of moses?
 
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Nomos means "law". But you seem to teach that torah does not equal to the law of moses?

I'm not teaching anything.

Matthew 23 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
8 “But you are not to let yourselves be called ‘Rabbi’; because you have one Rabbi, and you are all each other’s brothers.

These folks give a fairly decent explanation:

Definition:
What Do We Mean by the Term "Torah?"

The Hebrew word, torah (תורה), is derived from a root that was used in the realm of archery, yareh (ירה). Yareh means to shoot an arrow in order to hit a mark. The mark or target, of course, was the object at which the archer was aiming. Consequently, torah, one of the nouns derived from this root, is, therefore, the arrow aimed at the mark, The target is the truth about God and how one relates to Him. The torah is, therefore, in the strict sense instruction designed to teach us the truth about God. Torah means direction,teaching, instruction,or doctrine.

We should note that the usual translation of this word as law is not quite accurate.[1] One of the most common ways that torah (תורה) is rendered in the Septuagint (LXX)[2] is by using the word nomosv, nomo?. The Greek word nomos, however, has a variety of uses, among which, to be sure, is law, but it is certainly not limited to law. Following the precedent set by the LXX, the Newer Covenant Scriptures consistently render the Hebrew torah by the term nomos. This is where things begin to become confusing. Sometimes, in the Newer Covenant Scriptures, it is appropriate to translate nomos as law. However, other times it is more appropriate to render it as God's teaching/instruction, or simply to transliterate the term as Torah. The context of the word is always the final determiner of its meaning.
There are at least two other related Hebrew words derived from the same root as torah. The first is the word for teacher, moreh (מורה). A moreh is one who imparts instruction to his/her students. The second important word is parent, horeh (הורה). This indicates to us that one of the primary roles for a parent is to teach and instruct the child.[3]

Torah - Definition

It's interesting to note that a more direct translation for the Greek word for "sinning" is "missing."
 
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I'm not teaching anything.

Matthew 23 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
8 “But you are not to let yourselves be called ‘Rabbi’; because you have one Rabbi, and you are all each other’s brothers.

These folks give a fairly decent explanation:

Definition:
What Do We Mean by the Term "Torah?"

The Hebrew word, torah (תורה), is derived from a root that was used in the realm of archery, yareh (ירה). Yareh means to shoot an arrow in order to hit a mark. The mark or target, of course, was the object at which the archer was aiming. Consequently, torah, one of the nouns derived from this root, is, therefore, the arrow aimed at the mark, The target is the truth about God and how one relates to Him. The torah is, therefore, in the strict sense instruction designed to teach us the truth about God. Torah means direction,teaching, instruction,or doctrine.

We should note that the usual translation of this word as law is not quite accurate.[1] One of the most common ways that torah (תורה) is rendered in the Septuagint (LXX)[2] is by using the word nomosv, nomo?. The Greek word nomos, however, has a variety of uses, among which, to be sure, is law, but it is certainly not limited to law. Following the precedent set by the LXX, the Newer Covenant Scriptures consistently render the Hebrew torah by the term nomos. This is where things begin to become confusing. Sometimes, in the Newer Covenant Scriptures, it is appropriate to translate nomos as law. However, other times it is more appropriate to render it as God's teaching/instruction, or simply to transliterate the term as Torah. The context of the word is always the final determiner of its meaning.
There are at least two other related Hebrew words derived from the same root as torah. The first is the word for teacher, moreh (מורה). A moreh is one who imparts instruction to his/her students. The second important word is parent, horeh (הורה). This indicates to us that one of the primary roles for a parent is to teach and instruct the child.[3]

Torah - Definition

It's interesting to note that a more direct translation for the Greek word for "sinning" is "missing."
So, are you saying that the term torah is so uncomprehensible that you are not able to define which texts are and which texts are not "torah"?
 
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So, are you saying that the term torah is so uncomprehensible that you are not able to define which texts are and which texts are not "torah"?
No. I don't find the term "Torah" incomprehensible. It is under YHWH's authority alone to define which texts are, and which texts are not ,"Torah." He gave his Torah from the beginning. When men stayed; he wrote it in stone, with his own finger; and he gave it to Moshe. When it was corrupted by men; he decried the corruptions through his prophets. When men didn't heed the words of his servants; he sent his own son; and put his words on his son's lips. When men murdered his son, for speaking the truth; he sent his Ruach to lead each of us, who loves him, to his truth.

I believe that YHWH is leading me to his truth, through his Ruach. I don't have the whole truth; but I have the evidence that the Ruach is leading me closer to YHWH's truth; as I humbly submit my discernment to where the Ruach leads.

The Complete Jewish Bible
Matthew 7:7

"Keep asking, and it will be given to you; keep seeking, and you will find; keep knocking, and the door will be opened to you.

Now, my question to you:

Do you believe what you believe; because you sought and studied all of the evidence; and you could arrive at no other conclusion; or do you believe what you believe; because some men told you what to believe; and you believed them?

I've provided the evidence. Use it how you will. I pray that it be according to YHWH's will.
 
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These questions are many which are not blatantly answered answered by canonical scripture. However, with the aid of historical references, and Qumran writings, add clarity to canonical scripture.

For example, there are quotes of scripture referenced in the Brit Chadasha, which cannot be found in the canonical Torah. They can however be found in the Qumran scrolls.

Another question: How was Yahshua lawfully anointed king? I believe that as Zechariah was John the Baptists' father; the Zadok priesthood was transferred to John; and that John, as High priest, anointed Yahshua near Qumran.

1024px-Sapsaphas_Madaba.jpg

Actually, that's not completely correct. As a priest, John the baptist anointed Jesus as an official Sacrifice, not as a king. Jesus's kingship comes from the David. David and Saul's son, Jonathan, made a covenant. The kingship transferred from Saul to Jonathan, and since Jonathan died with no child, the kingship transfers to David through the covenant. The it transfers from David to Jesus.
 
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