Christian God encourages abstaining from sexual relations

BigV

Junior Member
Dec 27, 2007
1,093
267
47
USA, IL
✟41,804.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It's no secret that Jesus was not married and he is considered a perfect human being, at a level all Christians are striving to or are supposed to be striving to.

Note what Jesus said:
Matthew 5:28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29. If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

This means that a young man who is looking to get married can not look at his future wife with lust, or sexual desire, lest he be committing adultery!

Sounds like a nearly impossible level to attain, except you resort to radical means of "fixing" yourself.

Matthew 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

That bolded comment is not really practiced today, but God only knows how many men have permanently damaged their reproductive function based on a literal reading of the Bible.

And, what about Paul? What does he say on the subject?

1 Cor. 7:17 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

....
7 Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.

8 But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Paul echoes the teaching of Jesus, albeit in a milder form. He is not promoting castration, but permits marriage, albeit he is saying it's really for those who do not self control.

Btw, what is one fruit of the Spirit? Self Control!

FYI, just thought I'd share the teachings you won't hear in today's Bible studies. I'm glad they are not taught or practiced, but why claim to follow God and Jesus while ignoring these bits?
 

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
This means that a young man who is looking to get married can not look at his future wife with lust, or sexual desire, lest he be committing adultery!

Not.
Adultery is cheating on your spouse.
So this doesn't apply to singles.

And eunuchs can be non-sexual by choice without bodily violence.
Just as circumcision is discussed as an idea rather than a surgery.

God encourages monogamy and permanent commitment to ones partner.
God also allows for the reality of marriage to the wrong person
and remarriage for whatever reasons.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

dzheremi

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian
Aug 27, 2014
13,500
13,648
✟426,176.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
It's no secret that Jesus was not married and he is considered a perfect human being, at a level all Christians are striving to or are supposed to be striving to.

Certainly.

Note what Jesus said:
Matthew 5:28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29. If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

This means that a young man who is looking to get married can not look at his future wife with lust, or sexual desire, lest he be committing adultery!

Uh...do you know what the word adultery means? It's sex between a married person and and a person other than their spouse. Obviously if neither are married, they can't commit adultery. It's still sin, it's fornication, but it's not adultery.

Sounds like a nearly impossible level to attain, except you resort to radical means of "fixing" yourself.

Which the Church has rejected since forever; see here the condemnation of Origen of Alexandria for (among other things) self-mutilation.

Matthew 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

Again, the Church since basically forever has rejected the literal interpretation of passages like this, so this is not and has not been understood as advocating self-mutilation, but rather becoming a 'eunuch' by the death of the passions -- among them the sexual passions.

That bolded comment is not really practiced today

Monastics and people participating in the liturgical fasts in all of Eastern Christianity would beg to differ.

but God only knows how many men have permanently damaged their reproductive function based on a literal reading of the Bible.

Yeah. Again, that's why the Church condemned Origen for taking it literally when it's not meant to be taken literally.

And, what about Paul? What does he say on the subject?

1 Cor. 7:17 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

....
7 Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.

8 But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Paul echoes the teaching of Jesus, albeit in a milder form. He is not promoting castration, but permits marriage, albeit he is saying it's really for those who do not self control.

What of it?

Btw, what is one fruit of the Spirit? Self Control!

Yes. What's wrong with self control? Maybe if we had more of it as a society, there wouldn't be so many babies born to unwed mothers, so many fathers (and some mothers, though that's less common) skipping out on their chldren, etc.

FYI, just thought I'd share the teachings you won't hear in today's Bible studies. I'm glad they are not taught or practiced, but why claim to follow God and Jesus while ignoring these bits?

What planet are you living on where churches don't teach these things? Whether or not people follow them is certainly another matter, but they are still taught, and practiced however imperfectly by millions upon millions of people.
 
Upvote 0

zippy2006

Dragonsworn
Nov 9, 2013
6,780
3,379
✟242,037.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
FYI, just thought I'd share the teachings you won't hear in today's Bible studies. I'm glad they are not taught or practiced, but why claim to follow God and Jesus while ignoring these bits?

It is understandable that a modern person can only see these passages in relation to sexual relations, but they are probably more properly about marriage and celibacy. Either way the verses haven't been ignored. The celibate state has always been esteemed in Christianity, and a natural consequence of celibacy is the absence of sexual relations.
 
Upvote 0

HTacianas

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2018
8,459
8,968
Florida
✟321,876.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
It's no secret that Jesus was not married and he is considered a perfect human being, at a level all Christians are striving to or are supposed to be striving to.

Note what Jesus said:
Matthew 5:28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29. If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

This means that a young man who is looking to get married can not look at his future wife with lust, or sexual desire, lest he be committing adultery!

Sounds like a nearly impossible level to attain, except you resort to radical means of "fixing" yourself.

Matthew 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

That bolded comment is not really practiced today, but God only knows how many men have permanently damaged their reproductive function based on a literal reading of the Bible.

And, what about Paul? What does he say on the subject?

1 Cor. 7:17 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

....
7 Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.

8 But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Paul echoes the teaching of Jesus, albeit in a milder form. He is not promoting castration, but permits marriage, albeit he is saying it's really for those who do not self control.

Btw, what is one fruit of the Spirit? Self Control!

FYI, just thought I'd share the teachings you won't hear in today's Bible studies. I'm glad they are not taught or practiced, but why claim to follow God and Jesus while ignoring these bits?

The Council of Nicea prohibited castration among Christian clergy. It has now been generally accepted to prohibit castration also to laymen.

The Didascalia Apostolorum has Matthew 5:

As also in the Gospel He renews and confirms and fulfils the Ten Words of the Law, (saying) : For it is written in the Law: Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you this,-- who in the Law spake through Moses, but now myself say unto you: Whosoever shall look upon the wife of his neighbour to desire her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart [Mt 5.27-28].
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Hazelelponi
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It's no secret that Jesus was not married and he is considered a perfect human being, at a level all Christians are striving to or are supposed to be striving to.
But . . . I would say . . . perfection is not measured by if a person is married or not. By itself, celibacy is not an ideal. What matters is how devoted to God a person is. And both single and married people can become like Jesus.

We could have fun debating if Jesus was married. The Bible, if I remember correctly, does not directly say He ever was or never was. And we do have how Jesus >

"was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin." (in Hebrews 4:15)

So, even if Jesus was never married, still He has been tempted as married people have been, "yet without sin."

Now, if Jesus could be tempted like married people, why would it be a big deal if He had been married?? God created sex; He lives in and through it, keeping it in existence; so what would be wrong with Him doing it? There are people who somehow feel sex to be dirty so Jesus so holy could not possibly ever be intimate with a lady. But Jesus accepted how at least one woman washed His feet with her tears and dried them with her hair and she kissed His feet . . . pretty intimate behavior, I would say > Jesus is not conceited or afraid of intimacy!!! :)

Even so > I accept that Jesus' mission was not marriage. But He did have family experience so now He can feel for people who are married and members of families.
 
Upvote 0

Aryeh Jay

Gone and hopefully forgotten.
Supporter
Jul 19, 2012
15,312
14,321
MI - Michigan
✟498,114.00
Country
United States
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
It's not like Christians aren't doing that, Aryeh Jay. The OP's interpretation of Christianity and the relevant passages of its scriptures is quite simply wrong.

I know. like I said, it is quite an interesting idea. The Skoptsy Sect from Imperial Russia may have come to the same conclusion.
 
Upvote 0

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,592
5,732
Montreal, Quebec
✟248,004.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This means that a young man who is looking to get married can not look at his future wife with lust, or sexual desire, lest he be committing adultery!
I think there are other interpretations. First, I believe that "adultery" - the word Jesus uses - refers to a situation the "target" is a married person (other than your own spouse, of course). Second, for a range of reasons, I believe that by "lust", Jesus is referring not to sexual desire per se, but the intent to steal the person from their spouse.

Now, of course, many, especially the fundamentalists, will howl in disagreement. In any event, I see no reason not to read the text in the far less restrictive sense I am.

After all, as a man at least, it is difficult to believe that something so primal and uncontrollable as "sexual desire" - in a sense where you merely experience certain feelings and do not intend to act - is a sin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BigV

Junior Member
Dec 27, 2007
1,093
267
47
USA, IL
✟41,804.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Uh...do you know what the word adultery means? It's sex between a married person and and a person other than their spouse. Obviously if neither are married, they can't commit adultery. It's still sin, it's fornication, but it's not adultery.

You are right when it comes to adultery. I have a Christian background and this verse was used on us as a lesson against viewing sexual material or generally seeking relations with the opposite sex until we are married.

Just to clarify further, do you believe that it's not a sin for an unmarried man to lust after unmarried woman?

Interesting idea considering that the first words to humans in the Bible were “Be fruitful and multiply”…

I know that, that's why I titled my post as "A Christian God...". Old Testament is very different. You can, for example, rape an unmarried virgin and pay her father 50 shekels and the girl will be yours for life.

God instructed Moses to tell the Israelites to keep young Midianite virgins for themselves, etc... (Numbers 31).
 
Upvote 0

BigV

Junior Member
Dec 27, 2007
1,093
267
47
USA, IL
✟41,804.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It is understandable that a modern person can only see these passages in relation to sexual relations, but they are probably more properly about marriage and celibacy. Either way the verses haven't been ignored. The celibate state has always been esteemed in Christianity, and a natural consequence of celibacy is the absence of sexual relations.

Of course. I'd say based on the book of Revelations and other texts I've quoted, that the celibate state was the preferred state in Christianity.

Revelations 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps. 3 And they *sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. 4 These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste.

 
Upvote 0

Silmarien

Existentialist
Feb 24, 2017
4,337
5,254
38
New York
✟215,724.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
FYI, just thought I'd share the teachings you won't hear in today's Bible studies. I'm glad they are not taught or practiced, but why claim to follow God and Jesus while ignoring these bits?

Eh, some of us actually do still think celibacy is preferable and practice it. Honestly, your posts here are a large part of why I think these teachings are correct, since you seem to be saying that lust (i.e., sexual objectification) is not at all problematic, and that is clearly not the case.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid
Upvote 0

BigV

Junior Member
Dec 27, 2007
1,093
267
47
USA, IL
✟41,804.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Eh, some of us actually do still think celibacy is preferable and practice it. Honestly, your posts here are a large part of why I think these teachings are correct, since you seem to be saying that lust (i.e., sexual objectification) is not at all problematic, and that is clearly not the case.

Of course, personal choices are fine. But religion has a way of forcing people into doing what they would not necessarily choose for themselves. Imagine a young boy who is just entering his later teens, who also wants to be very devout to Jesus Christ. He may resort to doing things to his body to stay 'pure' that he would never do had he not read the New Testament.
 
Upvote 0

Silmarien

Existentialist
Feb 24, 2017
4,337
5,254
38
New York
✟215,724.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Of course, personal choices are fine. But religion has a way of forcing people into doing what they would not necessarily choose for themselves. Imagine a young boy who is just entering his later teens, who also wants to be very devout to Jesus Christ. He may resort to doing things to his body to stay 'pure' that he would never do had he not read the New Testament.

That sounds more like a mental health issue than anything else. Honestly, there are so many genuine problems with the way purity culture plays out in certain parts of the Christian world, focusing on something that isn't actually an issue instead is a little weird.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

2PhiloVoid

Yes, you're right! I'm not Gandalf!
Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
21,125
9,947
The Void!
✟1,126,193.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It's no secret that Jesus was not married and he is considered a perfect human being, at a level all Christians are striving to or are supposed to be striving to.

Note what Jesus said:
Matthew 5:28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29. If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

This means that a young man who is looking to get married can not look at his future wife with lust, or sexual desire, lest he be committing adultery!

Sounds like a nearly impossible level to attain, except you resort to radical means of "fixing" yourself.

Matthew 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

That bolded comment is not really practiced today, but God only knows how many men have permanently damaged their reproductive function based on a literal reading of the Bible.

And, what about Paul? What does he say on the subject?

1 Cor. 7:17 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

....
7 Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.

8 But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Paul echoes the teaching of Jesus, albeit in a milder form. He is not promoting castration, but permits marriage, albeit he is saying it's really for those who do not self control.

Btw, what is one fruit of the Spirit? Self Control!

FYI, just thought I'd share the teachings you won't hear in today's Bible studies. I'm glad they are not taught or practiced, but why claim to follow God and Jesus while ignoring these bits?

... they're implied in MY bible studies ......................... :dontcare:
It's no secret that Jesus was not married and he is considered a perfect human being, at a level all Christians are striving to or are supposed to be striving to.

Note what Jesus said:
Matthew 5:28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29. If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

This means that a young man who is looking to get married can not look at his future wife with lust, or sexual desire, lest he be committing adultery!

Sounds like a nearly impossible level to attain, except you resort to radical means of "fixing" yourself.

Matthew 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

That bolded comment is not really practiced today, but God only knows how many men have permanently damaged their reproductive function based on a literal reading of the Bible.

And, what about Paul? What does he say on the subject?

1 Cor. 7:17 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

....
7 Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.

8 But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Paul echoes the teaching of Jesus, albeit in a milder form. He is not promoting castration, but permits marriage, albeit he is saying it's really for those who do not self control.

Btw, what is one fruit of the Spirit? Self Control!

FYI, just thought I'd share the teachings you won't hear in today's Bible studies. I'm glad they are not taught or practiced, but why claim to follow God and Jesus while ignoring these bits?

You make it sound like men could just casually stroll in at a moments notice and, like today, gawk at any one single naked lady they'd like to peer upon ........but did they have the printing press or the internet back then? I could be wrong, but I'm kind of thinking they didn't, so 'lusting' would have to be doing something more than just passively doing what Paul himself felt he occasionally did, 'BURNING.'
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Yes, you're right! I'm not Gandalf!
Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
21,125
9,947
The Void!
✟1,126,193.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Of course. I'd say based on the book of Revelations and other texts I've quoted, that the celibate state was the preferred state in Christianity.

Revelations 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps. 3 And they *sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. 4 These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste.

It is a post like this one of yours that is why I keep harping on the importance of Hermeneutics, Big V. Y'know, if what they taught you in your former church is/was this simplistic, no wonder you're showing up here with an ax to grind with the Christian Faith. I'd probably do so too.
 
Upvote 0

BigV

Junior Member
Dec 27, 2007
1,093
267
47
USA, IL
✟41,804.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You make it sound like men could just casually stroll in at a moments notice and, like today, gawk at any one single naked lady they'd like to peer upon ........but did they have the printing press or the internet back then? I could be wrong, but I'm kind of thinking they didn't, so 'lusting' would have to be doing something more than just passively doing what Paul himself felt he occasionally did, 'BURNING.'

Good to know that hermeneutics help you read MORE THAN the text actually says.
It is a post like this one of yours that is why I keep harping on the importance of Hermeneutics, Big V. Y'know, if what they taught you in your former church is/was this simplistic, no wonder you're showing up here with an ax to grind with the Christian Faith. I'd probably do so too.

I think Christians here would have a field day with each other's beliefs. Everyone uses their own system, it seems to decide which text to follow and what the text actually means. We've been through that already, no need to rehash.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

2PhiloVoid

Yes, you're right! I'm not Gandalf!
Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
21,125
9,947
The Void!
✟1,126,193.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Good to know that hermeneutics help you read MORE THAN the text actually says.
Interpretion, which is the central idea of the term, is something inescapable, and we ALL do it since it's part of the process of reading. So, it's NOT a matter of whether or not you or I apply hermeneutics, but rather whether or not any one of us does it well.

This is lesson #1, and you need to let this sink down into your brain, BigV. Otherwise, if you think you aren't doing your own "hermeneutics" every time you engage human communication, you're just living in a solipsistic bubble of your own persistent creation.

I think Christians here would have a field day with each other's beliefs. Everyone uses their own system, it seems to decide which text to follow and what the text actually means. We've been through that already, no need to rehash.
Right. There are a number of mediating factors in any interplay of communication between human beings. This has always been the case, so this is also why we all want to become increasingly aware and educated about the complexities and variables that go into human communication of any kind, anywhere, and at any time among different people groups.
 
Upvote 0