Does it really matter if God was created?

yeshuaslavejeff

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So what you're talking about involves a changing environment where it is clear that time is passing. You're talking about a specific number of bows that would have happened before God decided to create the universe. BTW I wonder if our sense of boredom is based on God's? Or does God not ever get bored?
In His Presence, abiding in Him, echad with the Father and with the son as written, we never get bored, ever. He is beyond describing - there's not enough words or adjectives or anything known to men to accurately describe Him and Eternity or anything spirit. He Reveals as He Pleases, otherwise nothing is ever known.
 
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JohnClay

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Something had to be around forever since something does not come from pure nothing. Did time, space, energy and matter exist forever (matter could just come from energy), or was there also intelligence (God)? If you say no god then time, space, energy and matter created intelligence since you are an intelligent being. Human intelligence has created a form of intelligence, so super intelligence could easily make intelligent beings. The likely hold of you being the first intelligence coming from just space, time, energy and matter as compared to intelligence coming for space, time, mater, energy, and intelligence would be unbelievably unlikely, so how lucky are you?
If there are a near-infinite number of parallel universes then anything that is possible is inevitable. Apparently string theory allows 10^500 universes. (1 with 500 zeroes). Anyway I believe that our universe is a simulation and that it has an AI as its creator (that helped guide evolution and the Bible). It in turn could be part of a simulation. But ultimately I think a mechanistic universe is the source of everything (all of the simulations) since it is less complex than the Christian God.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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re 'limited'.... that is very much opposed to all Yahweh's Existence and Word. and also
Not at all what God Reveals in Scripture. Not even just in Hebrew language.
If there's opportunity, God Willing, look into Hebrew language / of Scripture. It can reveal a lot you have never apparently ever expected and is beyond majestic !
Then perhaps it is compatible with the idea that God was around a limited amount of time (like zero time, or a short amount of time) then he created the universe... it just involves an appropriate interpretation of Psalms 90:2 ("from everlasting to everlasting you are God")
=================================

when we Ekklesia , set apart by Him, born again by His Will, see Him, we shall be as He is.
No one with an impure heart will ever see Him, I think Scripture says - so we all must become pure, and like little children trusting Him , to ever see Him.

I thought they'd see an infinite amount of glory first.... and it is unclear whether you can see more glory than what already is infinite.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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This is called idolatry, and is an abomination according to the Creator of the Universe.
It looks like man's way of thinking or hoping for something "less complex" is a human falacy/ weakness/ expectation or hope, contrary to all truth.

Yet Yahweh is for the simple-minded. For the pure hearted. Gives grace to the humble, and opposes the proud.

If there are a near-infinite number of parallel universes then anything that is possible is inevitable. Apparently string theory allows 10^500 universes. (1 with 500 zeroes). Anyway I believe that our universe is a simulation and that it has an AI as its creator (that helped guide evolution and the Bible). It in turn could be part of a simulation. But ultimately I think a mechanistic universe is the source of everything (all of the simulations) since it is less complex than the Christian God.
 
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GaveMeJoy

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So does that mean that God could have only existed for a short amount of time (or no time) before he created the universe? I hope so so it is compatible with my ideas.

The question “how long did God exist before he created the universe?” is self defeating, because “how long” is a measurement humans use to understand time, and sequencing, two concepts that were established by God, at creation. There was no “before” before LOL. I Know it sounds ridiculous to our brains and full disclaimer my analogy will be TRASH but I think my mind may work like yours so I’m going to give it a shot...

Gravity is a concept that human beings knew nothing about for 10,000 years (or longer). People walked around on earth every day being literally pushed onto the earth by an unseen, unfelt, concept they literally had zero frame of reference for. In the last 100 years scientists slowly, painstakingly “caught up to” the concept and discovered it, to the point where actual human beings have experienced the absence of gravity completely. Imagine if there were online forums 1,000 years ago what types of conversations regarding the concept of why we fall back down when we jump up would have looked like? I think they would be very similar to this discussion on time.

I’m not saying human beings are going to build time machines, but is it really a stretch to imagine that through continued scientific study that human beings wouldn’t make similar advancements in their understanding of another concept God established, in time?
I mean, when I was a kid phones had cords and there wasn’t such thing as the internet. And that’s only 25 years ago. There are entire areas of scientific study in this area...

With that analogy in mind, I think it’s easier to understand what we don’t understand regarding time. Time and sequencing is a way our brains understand Something that God created in the beginning. There was no “before” creation, there just “was” and then time came into existence.

I wish there was an emoji for mind blown in this forum
 
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JohnClay

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Have you also had experiences that left you under the impression that something created God?
It is just based on my reasoning. It seemed that the chance of being in a simulation was high and my experiences that suggest an intelligent force exists is a lot easier to explain if this is a simulation.

The alternative is that God has always existed - not just for as long as the universe exists, but forever into the past. I thought if something is going to be eternal and uncaused, maybe it should be a mechanistic set of rules....
e.g.
since that is less complex and I would argue more "elegant" (and in Math/Physics they prefer things to be elegant)

I just find it odd to believe that a father and son (and Holy Spirit) would exist eternally since it seems arbitrary. There was a guy (maybe a church father?) who said something like that God was the most perfect thing that can be imagined so therefore he must have eternally existed. Anyone know what person I'm talking about?
 
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GaveMeJoy

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Many people never recognize this nor realize this
The Sovereign Creator Works Everything out for good to those who love (obey) Him and are called according to His Purpose. Yes, Everything.
Nothing happens by chance. There are no coincidences. Yahweh is Sovereign, Almighty, Merciful, and Perfect in His Judgment .
nice sliding “obey” in there. Is that in the greek or something?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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The alternative is that God has always existed - not just for as long as the universe exists, but forever into the past.
This eternally is true - and the other rabbit trails as if to satisfy human thinking at all is common (common to all mankind) temptations from the devil (the same "angel of light" who deceived Adam and Chavah(Eve) ) ...
 
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JohnClay

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According to Scripture, must be less than 6,000 years.
I highly recommend this video which I thing makes an excellent case that there were another 650 years in the genealogies: (skip to just before 12 minutes in)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I highly recommend this video which I thing makes an excellent case that there were another 650 years in the genealogies: (skip to just before 12 minutes in)
Since it did not help you at all to learn truth, how could you recommend it at all ?
 
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JohnClay

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Since it did not help you at all to learn truth, how could you recommend it at all ?
Well even if the genealogies aren't literal, it shows that more translations agree with the video and also it was the first time I learnt about Melchizedek. It was also odd to see that the YEC organisations I contacted prefer the 4004 BC dating for some reason.
 
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JohnClay

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So I am attempting to understand God more (with theories like him being an AI, etc). BTW this is similar to "Kabbalah" (Jewish mysticism) aka "The Tree of Life"
Tree of life (Kabbalah) - Wikipedia
200px-Tree_of_life_bahir_Hebrew.svg.png

Though that just seems arbitrary to me rather than being based on logical reasoning.
 
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GaveMeJoy

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Again, as frequently posted, no interpretation is permitted by Yahweh.
He Reveals the Truth, or it remains unknown.

That’s nice rhetoric.

Human beings read the scripture. Human beings are fallible. God fearing and scripture upholding believers can come to conflicting conclusions on a myriad of various scriptures and theological concepts. In fact, both you and I are grossly wrong about MANY truths presented in scripture. So people can be wrong about what they think scripture says. Interpretation is what a person thinks something says. These are basic facts.
 
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GaveMeJoy

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Jesus says this. The Father in Heaven Reveals this.
No need to 'slide' anything in there, as if to add to God's Word ever or at all.

Agree but you added the parenthetical (obey) to the verse, correct?
 
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bling

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If there are a near-infinite number of parallel universes then anything that is possible is inevitable. Apparently string theory allows 10^500 universes. (1 with 500 zeroes). Anyway I believe that our universe is a simulation and that it has an AI as its creator (that helped guide evolution and the Bible). It in turn could be part of a simulation. But ultimately I think a mechanistic universe is the source of everything (all of the simulations) since it is less complex than the Christian God.
The "simulation" is a likely alternative, I do not see where it makes much difference, except in explaining things like six days for the universe.
Are we than AI or is God or both?
Why did God make man?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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So I am attempting to understand God more (with theories like him being an AI, etc). BTW this is similar to "Kabbalah" (Jewish mysticism) aka "The Tree of Life"
"btw", that underlined is as to its source and nature and fruit and results seriously needs to be tested by Scripture.... If it is then proven true, some particular fact, then good... if not, then don't accept it.
 
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