I do not know why i have to believe in Jesus

Gup20

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Okay, it seems that you are mostly interested in the Universalist idea.

What I thought the main point you were asking about was whether Jesus, in his instructions, was saying to refer to the Father or to him (Jesus). If the former, it might mean that Jesus was only some sort of representative of God (or of the Father). I think the verses I mentioned have to be tortured in order to make them be said by Jesus but not referring to himself.

Be that as it may, I also think that the issue has two parts. Is Jesus God? If that is established, then whom he was referring to in such verses as those mentioned answers itself. It's Jesus.

That however, doesn't take up the Universalist issue.

There are several verses in Scripture, about a half-dozen, which suggest universal salvation, but there are a mountain of others that point the opposite way. It is impossible IMHO to discount these others, so that is where I am forced to come down on this question.
Universalism is an incorrectly applied idea.

Sin and death are universal. Adam's judgement is universal - because of 1 sin, God judged all of humankind, all of the animals, all of the plants, even the ground. Because of Jesus, however, that universal, corporate judgment has to be rescinded, and in it's place we need individual judgments. That is what the Great White Throne judgement is - an individual judgement.

Universalists stop at the rescinding of Adam's judgment, but never finish the story by talking about the 2nd judgment - the great white throne judgment which will be an individual judgement.

Some will certainly have a second death after being resurrected from Adam's judgement. There is no resurrection from the second death judgement.

Acts 24:15
having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.


John 5:28
“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”


Daniel 12:1
Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt
.

Rev 20:11-14
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one [of them] according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.


Faith qualifies us as descendants of Abraham, and God promised Abraham that all of his descendants (from many nations) would inherit the righteousness he was given for his faith. When we have the same faith in the gospel that Abraham had, we are considered Abraham's descendants and heirs according to the promise.

[Gal 3:6-9 NASB] 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, [saying,] "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. ... 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

[Rom 4:9-17 NASB] 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation. 16 For this reason [it is] by faith, in order that [it may be] in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17 (as it is written, "A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU") in the presence of Him whom he believed, [even] God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.​

So the REASON -- the WHY -- as to why we need to have faith (in the gospel of Jesus Christ) is because having the same faith in The Gospel as Abraham had qualifies us as a descendant of Abraham, and all descendants of Abraham INHERIT Christ's righteousness as an inheritance by promise.

[Luk 19:9 NASB] 9 And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham.

Hebrews 2:16
For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.

Romans 9:6
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.”
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Isaiah 54:1
“Shout for joy, O barren one, you who have borne no child; Break forth into joyful shouting and cry aloud, you who have not travailed; For the sons of the desolate one will be more numerous Than the sons of the married woman,” says the LORD.

 
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GodsGrace101

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Okay, it seems that you are mostly interested in the Universalist idea.
I don't believe in universalism.
I said that I believe as YOU do.
God offers his grace and salvation to all...
but we have to accept it.

What I thought the main point you were asking about was whether Jesus, in his instructions, was saying to refer to the Father or to him (Jesus). If the former, it might mean that Jesus was only some sort of representative of God (or of the Father). I think the verses I mentioned have to be tortured in order to make them be said by Jesus but not referring to himself.
No. The point I was making is that even Jesus referred to GOD...the Father, the 1st person of the Trinity. I'm trying to make the point that people that believe in God but do not know Jesus will be saved since they are worshipping the one and only God. I don't know how else to say this after so many posts.
I know that we Christians believe the Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one goes to the Father except through Him...what if a person doesn't know Him?? Are they lost forever? (they would have to be worshipping and serving God however).

Be that as it may, I also think that the issue has two parts. Is Jesus God? If that is established, then whom he was referring to in such verses as those mentioned answers itself. It's Jesus.
1. Jesus is God.
2. In some parts of the N.T. Jesus is referring to God. To whom was He praying in the Garden? To Himself? No, He was praying to the Father.


There are several verses in Scripture, about a half-dozen, which suggest universal salvation, but there are a mountain of others that point the opposite way. It is impossible IMHO to discount these others, so that is where I am forced to come down on this question.
Universalism is not biblical...it was never believed by the church from the very beginning.
 
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Albion

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No. The point I was making is that even Jesus referred to GOD...the Father, the 1st person of the Trinity. I'm trying to make the point that people that believe in God but do not know Jesus will be saved since they are worshipping the one and only God.

Those people might be saved. I am reluctant to make an absolutist statement to the effect that I know exactly how God's judgment will come down, whether in this situation or some other.

However, the overwhelming evidence from Scripture is that they will not be saved.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Those people might be saved. I am reluctant to make an absolutist statement to the effect that I know exactly how God's judgment will come down, whether in this situation or some other.

However, the overwhelming evidence from Scripture is that they will not be saved.
I agree that we should never make a statement as to a person's salvation since that is only for God to know.

However, we can make general statements...
Of course, we cannot be sure of anything, but based on what I know about God, I'd tend to believe that He will have mercy on many.

If Jesus is rejected, there is a problem.
Otherwise, we cannot say for sure that they are lost....

From scripture, I base my belief on:
Romans 1:19-20
Romans 2:10-15
 
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Albion

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I agree that we should never make a statement as to a person's salvation since that is only for God to know.

However, we can make general statements...
Of course, we cannot be sure of anything, but based on what I know about God, I'd tend to believe that He will have mercy on many.
As I said, he may. But we do not know, and therefore we cannot commit ourselves to it. In the meantime, we have the testimony of Scripture, and the weight of the relevant Bible verses is overwhelmingly negative about the idea.

Even the Papacy, which has been toying with the idea, has had to work it around so that non-believers amount to de facto Christians, and that's supposed to make the many references in Scripture to salvation being only in Christ...somehow "fit."
 
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GodsGrace101

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As I said, he may. But we do not know, and therefore we cannot commit ourselves to it. In the meantime, we have the testimony of Scripture, and the weight of the relevant Bible verses is overwhelmingly negative about the idea.

Even the Papacy, which has been toying with the idea, has had to work it around so that non-believers amount to de facto Christians, and that's supposed to make the many references in Scripture to salvation being only in Christ...somehow "fit."
Agreed. But it's for those that Know the Lord.
I was reading Acts 17:26......recently, but I need to read it in some different bibles.

As to the Papacy...this is interesting. Here everyone is Catholic and persons that are familiar with their faith do not care for this Pope,,,,and the others don't know what's going on.

How can a non-believer be a de-facto Christian!!
What's happening to Christianity!

John 3:3, 5

We must surely be in the end days.
 
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Blade

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Kostilaks just ask Him. Jesus is REAL! Ask from your heart.. and He alone will answer. NO OTHER so called god out there will ever answer. They are not real. If getting to heaven was so easy then no real need to go into all the earth to every creature and preach the Gospel would have been needed.

Its one thing to be bind as Christ said "if you were blind you would have no sin. You say you see your sin remains." And when Christ or GOD through Christ said "I am the way the truth and the life and no man gets to the Father buy by me". He is the ONLY way to the Father. To hear the Gospel and reject it.. then as Christ said.. they will not get it. Christ said many try to climb in "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."

See I personally believe "everyone gets a choice".
 
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