Larniavc

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But don't tell me I post fairy tales.
I didn’t. I asked you to substantiate your claims.

If you infer any judgement of ridiculousness in my comment I can assure you that you are incorrect.
 
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Larniavc

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how do you know the velocimeter is accurate? After all it measures things you can't see.
You compare it with other wind measuring devices. If they all agree you can be reasonable sure that they are valid measurement devices.
 
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createdtoworship

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Can you substantiate these claims?
Just realize theism is believing something created the known universe. Atheism believes everything, came from nothing. It all poofed into existence either by spontaneous combustion or other scientifically alleged event, that no one has seen. without observation, you lack testing, without testing you can't have theory, and thus the scientific method fails to prove atheism.

so before you get into your "you have no evidence" step back and take a good look at your own position.

athiesm came from nothing.png


athiesm 956.png
 
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thomas_t

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There is literally no reason to expect this book was divinely inspired.
Hi Christopher, nice to meet you.
You want evidence? You get it.:cool:
But since I tend to think of only one evidence - and it's for a loving God - let me bring that one to the table:
Landscapes can be really beautiful. And sometimes, there is no evolutionary pressure for them to be beautiful. Palm trees under the sun always look beatiful. In my opinion, there is no evolutionary requirement for them to be beautiful like that. My explanation: God made them look beautiful.

I do it that way: since I believe in a loving God,... I also believe in the Bible...., and also in the book of Revelations.

Thomas
 
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GodsGrace101

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Yes he has. His character in the OT is very different from his character in the NT.
What do YOU know about the O.T.?
How would that change be explained?
I guess you're aware that the O.T. was written about 4,000 years ago.
God revealed Himself to this people.
That's all I'll say on this subject.

In The N.T. we deal with Jesus...
a real person that some of us are interested in knowing who He was and where He came from.

When the student is ready,
the teacher will appear.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Can you substantiate this?
That scientists are beginning to believe in Intelligent Design?
Gosh...don't you know any science at all?

But for the benefit of those reading along....
I will post Dr. Meyers.

Have fun.....




 
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renniks

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The Athiest believes in no god, therefore he cannot be condemned for worship of the beast 666. The same is NOT true for most of those who follow the Bible.

Revelation "He comes quickly, and his reward is with him, to give everyone according to his works." Faith without works is dead. Be not confused, for a man reaps what he sows.

The Beast 666:

1) Legacy of Original Sin: Adam and Eve became gods. Rulers throughout the ancient world were worshipped as gods. When we get to the Christian age, Romans 13, Paul says the rulers were appointed by God and must be obeyed. It's the same thing...

2) The God YHWH, Yahweh, is the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, which is the five sided star, the body of man. "The body is the temple of the Lord." The Kingdom of heaven is within.

3) Hosea 13:7-8 "I will be onto them as a LION, Observe them as a LEOPARD, and meet them as a BEAR." Revelation 13:1-8 "I beheld a beast rise from the sea, with the mouth of a LION, the body of a LEOPARD, and the feet of a BEAR. All shall WORSHIP him whose names are not written in the book of Life."

The Scriptures tend to answer themselves, yet no one, I MEAN NO ONE, will ever tell you about how the God of the Old Testament admits to being the Beast 666 in the Revelation. It's worth noting that the Gnostic Christians reject the Old Testament and it's god as being a wicked Demiurge, but I didn't see Gnostic as one of the possible denominations here.

However, remember that we just established how the God YHWH is really the body of man. Then the Beast 666 refers to a certain group of people, namely the Synagogue of Satan. The bloodline of the legacy of the original Sin: Becoming God Kings.

4) 666, the number of God? The Number 666 - God's Secret Place

Again, Hosea 13 = Revelation 13. The numbers are a perfect match.
This happens a lot. For instance, Job is book 18 of the OT. Chapter 41, 4+1=5.
The writings of Apostle Paul begin with Acts, NT book 5, to Philemon, NT book 18.

5) The Beast rose form the Sea: It refers to the Flood of Noah. Some say the descendants of Cain are still with us, but only the bloodline of Noah survived the flood. Scholars believe Cain killing Abel was based on the story of Seth Killing Osiris, and then we have a third son named Seth. Perhaps the mark of Cain was a new identity? It's worth noting the descendants of Seth and the descendants of Cain are each 8 and are similar variations of the same names. There are two Enochs, etc. It's really just the bloodline of Cain.

The Canaanites come from Noah's descendant Canaan, so no matter how you look at it, the Beast rose from the sea, which is the flood of Noah. The Flood that came from the Dragon's mouth in Revelation 12 when Michael fought against him.

Michael vs the Dragon may have been based on Osiris vs Apep and the Watchers.

Egyptian Religious Comparisons
https://www.amazon.com/Egyptian-Origin-Book-Revelation-Pippy/dp/0981257046

6) Received a deadly headwound: This is due to Christ, after which Tidus Flavius captured Jerusalem.

7) All shall WORSHIP him whose names are not written in the lambs book of life:
Worship implies the Beast is a God, one that the masses will worship. One cannot deny the plain fact that the scripture tells us the God of the Old Testament is the beast 666 in Hos 13.

B. The Second Beast from the Earth, with two horns like a lamb, who speaks as a dragon.

1) The Dragon, Leviathan: Do not be deceived into thinking Leviathan was a sea creature. Read Job 41. "Shall he speak soft words to you, will he make a covenant with you, will you take him as a servant forever."

Job 41:15 "His scales are his pride."
Acts 9:18 "Scales fell from his eyes, he rose and was baptised."

And that is the mystery of the thorn of Satan in Apostle Paul's flesh, lest he be exalted in the abundance of the Revelations. Paul speaks much truth, but Leviathan is also there. In fact, every verse in Job 41 has a perfect match somewhere in the NT. Of course Apostle Paul is the foundation for Christianity.

2) He does great wonders, making fire come down from heaven in the sight of men.

This refers to Emperor Constantine, who was considered a "Dragon King," and who conquered using Greek Fire which he claimed was given to him by Angels. Constantine created Church Christianity in 325 AD with the Council of Nicaea. The Nicene Creed.

3) The second beast from the Earth:

This refers to the ROCK, Apostle Peter, upon whom the church was built.

4) He exercises all the authority of the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

This is where we are today, for obvious reasons. (Go back and read number 6)
The New Faith of Christianity includes the Old Testament and it's God.
Therefore the Roman Church exercises the authority of the first beast.

Now the idea of the Roman Church being the beast or the harlot, is nothing new, but few have found it as the second beast.

C. The Son of Perdition:

He sits in the temple of God, showing or proving that he is God.
(Recap: Adam and Eve became Gods. The God YHWH is the body of man. The body is the temple of the Lord. The Lord is the Beast 666, the number of a man."

When you see the Abomination standing in the Holy Place...
(The place of Worship. Do you see it? The worship of Men as god, Celebrities, Rulers, etc)

D) The Marriage Supper

The Beast, the Dragon, the Son of Perdition, The Man of Sin, the second Beast, they all refer to the Hebrews and the Christians....

Come to Marriage Supper. For those who were invited did not come, therefore he will take anyone from off the streets. Where those invited were the Hebrews and the Christians, and taking anyone from off the streets who will come refer to the Atheists.

There are 10 bridesmaids, 5 wise and 5 foolish. The wise ones got Extra oil for their lamps. At the midnight hour, judgment day, the Oil of the foolish burns out, but the new oil shall endure. Those in the Churches are those who refuse "New Oil."

F) Plagues of Revelation 16: The Sea (The angel tell us the waters are peoples, nations, multitudes, and tongues.) Became as the blood of a dead man (Jesus Christ) and they were given blood to drink (The Eucharist.)

That's only the tip of the Iceberg. Want to learn more, come to my youtube channel
Emerald Eyes Esoteric Ministry.

G) Many as One...

Numbers 14:15, Jud 6:16, Rom 12:5, 1 Co 12:27. "If you will judge this people as ONE MAN." The body of Christ is many. The Body of the Beast is also many.

H) Golden Age of Saturn.

The perfect Garden of Eden, paradise. Eden in the Sumerian means house of judgment.
Saturn ruled over the Golden Age. An age of peaceful anarchy.

Saturn had 3 sons: Hades, Poseidon, Zeus
Adam had 3 sons: Abel, Cain, Seth
Geb had 3 sons: Osiris, Horus, Seth
El had 3 sons: Yam, Hadad, Mot

In each of these pantheons is a god of the dead. Hades, lord of the underworld. Mot, Canaanite god of the Dead. Osiris, lord of the dead after he was killed by Seth. The original Egyptian god of the dead was Anubis. And Abel slain by his brother Cain.

Adam was made from the Earth.
The Egyptian God GEB is the Lord of the Earth.

Satan / Set-An is based on Seth, who is a form of Apep, the black Dragon whom I would also call Acnologia. Set-AN. Anu of Mesopotamia from the Babylonian Pantheon. The original God of the Dead being Anu, or Anu-Ibis. The Ibis being the beast head of various Egyptian Gods, and IBLIS being the Devil in Islam.

666 The Carbon Atom, named after Adam. The legacy of Men becoming Gods.
The Legacy of Government after the peaceful anarchy of the golden Age of Saturn.
Saturn, Adam Geb, El, The SAGE of the 666 Paths. Welcome to the Faith of Ninshu :)
You need to quit smoking that stuff.
 
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Larniavc

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You want me to substantiate that apples fall DOWN,
That math FUNCTIONS,
and that Physics is learned in school?

You're funny.
No I do not. What I would be interested to see you substantiate is that God is responsible for them.

It’s fine if you can’t.
 
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Larniavc

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What do YOU know about the O.T.?
Six years ago I took it upon myself to read the KJV 1611 cover to cover (even the lineages). All told it took me about 6 months.

I assume that you have too so that should put us on an equal footing with our Biblical knowledge.

I would be interested in hearing your take for the difference in character. But I don’t want to badger you so if you don’t want to say, that’s fine.
 
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Larniavc

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That scientists are beginning to believe in Intelligent Design?
Gosh...don't you know any science at all?

But for the benefit of those reading along....
I will post Dr. Meyers.

Have fun.....




I’m well aware of Dr Meyer and have read ‘Signature in the Cell’ and ‘Darwin’s Doubt’.

Very interesting read. It is unfortunate that Dr Meyer’s is renowned for attempting to pass off original research carried out by others as challenging ToE. When contacted the the original others were unhappy that their work had been cited as their confirmed that their research did not call ToE into question.

He is also well known for lying to the state of Ohio education board claiming that it was a legal requirement to teach alternatives to ToE.

So yes, I am aware of him and a liar and unprincipled academic hardly seems a good person to recommend.

That said, I’ve not kept up with the man for a few years so if you are aware of any of his newer original research (as opposed to misrepresenting other people research in literature reviews) a I cannot state how eager I outdone be to read them.

I’d like to thank you for keeping such a cool head: all to often these conversations can lead down the wrong paste. See you tomorrow?

All the best.
 
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GodsGrace101

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I'd advise you to check out this link;
Physicists Debate Hawking’s Idea That the Universe Had No Beginning | Quanta Magazine

In any case, whether or not intelligent design is a valid theory would depend on how you classify intelligent design.
Why isn't ID a valid theory?
I thought you said you were a believer...that makes it more than a theory..that would make it the truth for you.

If the universe came into existence, which is the accepted theory right now,,,then the question does come up as to HOW it got created. It's accepted scientific, cosmological, knowledge that the universe is 3.8 billion years old. There is agreement on this.



If you acknowledge that God cannot be tested in a lab, that science does not provide ultimate truths, and that you cannot prove God exists with 'evidence'...why are you even using science in your arguments to begin with? Popular to contrary belief, the onus can be on both parties and not just one.

Similar to how in courts a case is presented by a claimant, and then is countered by a defendant. Both are required to give evidence for their side of the case.
What do YOU use to show that God is a viable alternative when speaking to an atheist? The bible? How can anything be proven? Even the Big Bang is a theory...it cannot be proven. However, it's a theory that makes sense to the vast majority of scientists. The BB, IMO, corresponds to LET THERE BE LIGHT.

As far as I'm aware, there is no tangible way to prove or disprove God. The argument used by 'Atheists' is actually 'absence of proof = proof of absence' which...doesn't really stand up on its own for very long. Furthermore, Atheists are simply indifferent to a God/gods. They do not claim that a higher power(for sure)does not exist; they just do not personally believe in one or care much for that matter. An Anti-theist would claim there is no God, which(As I've mentioned)requires proof in which they're not much better off than we are. The concept of a world/universe that is able to function without God doesn't count as evidence either, seeing as the Bible only makes claims to the origins of life and being; which, ironically, we still don't have an answer for either.
There is reasonable proof for the resurrection, for instance. Scholars of the bible believe the resurrection did happen and very few have their doubts.
But I would not care to discuss this with anyone except a Christian.

To sum it up, you shouldn't be using worldly means to prove God. It is inefficient and it does not make sense; apologetics is for questioning Christians, not Atheists. The best proof of Christianity will be found in powerful testimony, the rich history of Christianity & Judaism, how we live our lives, and the spiritual relationship maintained between God and His children.
Actually, I agree with you.
The problem is that the bible can be seen as not being logical. Sometimes the conversation does veer in the secular direction.

Plus, we do have to counter Darwinism in some way.
This, in effect, is another religion.




This page pretty much sums up why I think Pascal's wager is a bunch of rubbish;
What is Pascal’s Wager? | GotQuestions.org

Well, if you want to debate in worldly terms, there is the problem that we don't know which religions pre-date each other, which obviously creates problems of identifying the 'copy cats'.

You don't hear Atheists arguing over Zeus because there are no Zeus-worshipping-majority countries with polytheists trying to force their beliefs onto them.
Right. We are seen this way, aren't we?
And mostly because we keep bringing up the bible which is just another book to them. I like that some scientists, and very good top ones, are promoting ID.
 
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GodsGrace101

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No I do not. What I would be interested to see you substantiate is that God is responsible for them.

It’s fine if you can’t.
Oh, I see.
You want me to prove God exists again.
As soon as YOU prove everything came from nothing at all.
And while you're at it, perhaps you could explain what NOTHING looks like.
That would be nice to know too.

Anyway, why are you on a Christian site telling Christians that they're wrong about their beliefs and asking them to prove God to you when science has no proof for anything regarding the origin of life.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Six years ago I took it upon myself to read the KJV 1611 cover to cover (even the lineages). All told it took me about 6 months.

I assume that you have too so that should put us on an equal footing with our Biblical knowledge.

I would be interested in hearing your take for the difference in character. But I don’t want to badger you so if you don’t want to say, that’s fine.
I won't be speaking about the O.T. here.
As to the KJV,,,,perhaps you could get a version that is actually understandable and does not have to be translated as you're reading.
The NASB or the NRSV might be nice.

And because you've read the O.T. does NOT put us on equal footing.
I hate to bring up scripture, but:

1 Corinthians 2:14
14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
 
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GodsGrace101

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I’m well aware of Dr Meyer and have read ‘Signature in the Cell’ and ‘Darwin’s Doubt’.

Very interesting read. It is unfortunate that Dr Meyer’s is renowned for attempting to pass off original research carried out by others as challenging ToE. When contacted the the original others were unhappy that their work had been cited as their confirmed that their research did not call ToE into question.

He is also well known for lying to the state of Ohio education board claiming that it was a legal requirement to teach alternatives to ToE.

So yes, I am aware of him and a liar and unprincipled academic hardly seems a good person to recommend.

That said, I’ve not kept up with the man for a few years so if you are aware of any of his newer original research (as opposed to misrepresenting other people research in literature reviews) a I cannot state how eager I outdone be to read them.

I’d like to thank you for keeping such a cool head: all to often these conversations can lead down the wrong paste. See you tomorrow?

All the best.
I'm very cool.
But I must say that it does disturb me that you require ME to prove something that cannot be proven while at the same time YOU also believe something that cannot be proven. There are different models for the O of Life exactly because the BB cannot be proven; although it is widely accepted.

I feel that a believer has a logical belief...it is NOT illogical.
I'd be interested in knowing why you think anyone believes in God.

Sure. Tomorrow is fine.
 
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dlamberth

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Oh, I see!
You make up your own rules.

SCIENTISTS say there was nothing before the Big Bang.
And they really can't go back before that.
Interesting, isn't it?
As muichimotsu wrote in another thread:
"Big Bang is not claiming that prior to it there was nothing, that's a gross misunderstanding of what the singularity entails."
 
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theoneandonlypencil

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Why isn't ID a valid theory?
I thought you said you were a believer...that makes it more than a theory..that would make it the truth for you.

As I previously stated, it depends on how you go about explaining ID. If by ID you mean the theory that all life was created/engineered by God; then yes, I agree with that. But when you go any further than that, like claiming creationism(as the two are often used as a pair), then ID starts to lose credibility.

Also, whether or not I believe in scientific or even pseudo-scientific theories does not qualify nor disqualify me from being a believer. Nice ad hominem.

If the universe came into existence, which is the accepted theory right now,,,then the question does come up as to HOW it got created. It's accepted scientific, cosmological, knowledge that the universe is 3.8 billion years old. There is agreement on this.

Dunno why you're pulling this, since I never questioned the age of the universe and already stated we don't know how the universe was created.

What do YOU use to show that God is a viable alternative when speaking to an atheist? The bible? How can anything be proven? Even the Big Bang is a theory...it cannot be proven. However, it's a theory that makes sense to the vast majority of scientists. The BB, IMO, corresponds to LET THERE BE LIGHT.

A good Christian should use their testimony, God's word, and above ALL else their KINDNESS and 'light' when talking to ANYONE; Atheist or not. The Christians obsessed with 'winning' secular/worldy debates only make it seem like we're out to get everyone because we're losing ground.

Did God go 'hey guys, I'm still here!' to the nonbelievers whenever the Apostles were martyred for their faith? No. If you feel the need to appease all of the skeptics with 'scientific proof of God' and don't believe His word and personal relationships with us--even just the effect they have on us as people--are enough, then I don't know what to tell you.

There is reasonable proof for the resurrection, for instance. Scholars of the bible believe the resurrection did happen and very few have their doubts.

Nice straw man you have there. Last time I checked, we were talking about proof of God; not proof of the resurrection. From an Atheistic standpoint, even if the resurrection happened; who's to say what supernatural power caused it? This is my whole point of not bothering with 'evidence'. It's pointless--even if God presented himself on a silver platter, as far as I know there's no way to study a supernatural force.

When I speak of 'evidence', I don't mean that 'there is no evidence, so God isn't real'. I mean there will be no evidence by the WORLD's standards. For pity's sake, the evidence is only one piece of the puzzle. Does history cease to exist the moment we don't have any 'evidence' of it happening? All of the undocumented lives and events we haven't dug up yet; did they simply not happen because we have no physical proof of it at this moment?

I think you give Atheists a little more credit than is due. Being an Atheist doesn't suddenly make you educated or scientifically inclined.

But I would not care to discuss this with anyone except a Christian.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't passively calling me a nonbeliever. Because if you were, that would be absolutely disgusting behavior from someone talking on behalf of God.

Actually, I agree with you.
The problem is that the bible can be seen as not being logical. Sometimes the conversation does veer in the secular direction.

And whenever an Atheist pulls a 'the onus is on the one making the claim', it is on YOU to be smart enough to not fall into the trap. Seriously, you people think that you can just waltz in on their territory of knowledge and convert them with your 'woke Christian science'? No--you might as well be a ten-man-army approaching a fully armed stronghold.

Plus, we do have to counter Darwinism in some way.
This, in effect, is another religion.

Darwin was a theist, in the same manner that Einstein was a theist--both either believed or acknowledged the possibility of a nonpersonal higher power. Darwin wasn't even that big of an atheist.

Darwinism is also NOT a religion by any stretch. The fact that you seem to talk so much about topics you know so little about only proves how petty and atheist-obsessed the apologetics circle is becoming. It's not bad enough that we have a good chunk of apologetics who either don't understand the material they speak about(Frank turek, ken ham)but they also downright lie about it to get ahead(such as the example @Larnievc gave).

Yeah, the atheists are totally going to respect the God who's people don't trust Him enough to reveal Himself and have to cover their own rear ends with made-up 'facts' just so they don't have to feel the sting of being persecuted and called illogical :dontcare:

Right. We are seen this way, aren't we?
And mostly because we keep bringing up the bible which is just another book to them. I like that some scientists, and very good top ones, are promoting ID.

Maybe if you stopped caring so much about what the nonbelievers think, you could better let the Holy Spirit speak to people through YOU with your actions and kindness. Constantly debating will only have people thinking you're obnoxious and disingenuous(coming from someone who's still trying to get over that habit).

I also love the irony of your stance primarily being about how Atheists will perceive the bible as illogical, lest we do something to counter the evil 'darwinist' religion when in post #55 you just brought up the verse...

"1 Corinthians 2:14
14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."


Just sayin' bud, sounds like you're beating a dead horse if the atheists literally can't understand scripture.
 
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GodsGrace101

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As muichimotsu wrote in another thread:
"Big Bang is not claiming that prior to it there was nothing, that's a gross misunderstanding of what the singularity entails."
I'm posting the following link, but there's a lot on the internet about this.
You might be alluding to the multiverse theory, or something else...however, even IF those were the correct explanation, we'd still have to explain HOW "they" originated. IOW, HOW did ANYTHING originate? Not to mention LIFE.

Could you please post the theory or theories YOU are speaking of?
 
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thomas_t

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Yes he has. His character in the OT is very different from his character in the NT.
Hi Larnie, nice to meet you.
In my opinion, God did not change. Situations did. God reacted differently in different situations. That's all.
Thomas
 
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