God and His love

StillGods · Jan 21, 2020

tdidymas said:
So then, here are 2 people:
1. You
2. A man who plans evil on his bed
So when the scripture says that God hates person #2, you say that He loves that person the same as you? Do I get you straight?
TD

yes

StillGods · Jan 21, 2020

JM said:
So God loves everyone, can save everyone, but doesn't?

What kind of love has the power to act and doesn't?

He made the way of salvation available for whosoever will, but we all have the choice whether to accept what Jesus did on the Cross or not. many choose not to.

Hazelelponi · Jan 22, 2020

StillGods said:
He made the way of salvation available for whosoever will, but we all have the choice whether to accept what Jesus did on the Cross or not. many choose not to.

The Bible never describes a libertarian free will.

If salvation is by grace through faith, yet anyone can "choose" to have it, why is it considered a gift of God and not by works? The act of "choosing correctly" removes God from the equation completely and places all responsibility for ones salvation on the part of man. Now your teaching a works-salvation, one of making the right choice for salvation. Salvation would no longer be "Of the Lord" if that were the case.

Whosoever wills, is whosoever God chooses to will, in the end.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved." Ephesians 1:3-6

So long as people are hanging into their own fleshly will, they aren't hanging onto His.

Give people a false sense having been saved causes them to stop looking for what really saves them and can be detrimental to someone's eternal future.

If you think you've chosen right and so are saved, but haven't yet experienced the fullness of the gift of faith, then your not looking for it anymore and you stop asking God for the gift. Your no longer the persistent widow of Luke 18:1-8 your the worker hiding the coin you've been given.

tdidymas · Jan 22, 2020

StillGods said:
yes

So since you choose to accept Christ, and the other doesn't, then does that make you the better man making the better decision? Or is it random?
TD

StillGods · Jan 22, 2020

tdidymas said:
So since you choose to accept Christ, and the other doesn't, then does that make you the better man making the better decision? Or is it random?
TD

it does not make a better person only saved.

StillGods · Jan 22, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
The Bible never describes a libertarian free will.

If salvation is by grace through faith, yet anyone can "choose" to have it, why is it considered a gift of God and not by works? The act of "choosing correctly" removes God from the equation completely and places all responsibility for ones salvation on the part of man. Now your teaching a works-salvation, one of making the right choice for salvation. Salvation would no longer be "Of the Lord" if that were the case.

Whosoever wills, is whosoever God chooses to will, in the end.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved." Ephesians 1:3-6

So long as people are hanging into their own fleshly will, they aren't hanging onto His.

Give people a false sense having been saved causes them to stop looking for what really saves them and can be detrimental to someone's eternal future.

If you think you've chosen right and so are saved, but haven't yet experienced the fullness of the gift of faith, then your not looking for it anymore and you stop asking God for the gift. Your no longer the persistent widow of Luke 18:1-8 your the worker hiding the coin you've been given.

when one offers you a gift, you still have to reach out your hands to accept it from them, maybe putting down what you are already holding in order to do so.

Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs.

Hazelelponi · Jan 22, 2020

StillGods said:
when one offers you a gift, you still have to reach out your hands to accept it from them, maybe putting down what you are already holding in order to do so.

Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs.

Yes, you do still have to reach for it, the difference is, some people reach to God, others reach to self.

The question is, are the ones reaching out to self correct in what they are reaching to? Or are those who are reaching to God?

The Calvinist says we must be always reaching to God. Is faith lacking reach to him. Is fruit lacking we reach to Him. Is faith lacking we reach to Him.

He is the object of our worship because we know we cant do anything apart from Him.

If God says come near and we are feeling some quicksand around our feet, we shouldn't sit and try and extricate ourselves (as this struggling only serves to bog you further down), rather, we should beg God to extricate us...

This world and our flesh, is like quicksand. We can fight and fight and fight and only find ourselves more and more entrenched, deeper and deeper the more we struggle.

We need a Savior... the Bible says we are dead in our sins, well, dead men can't grab anything.... So God sent us a Savior who would bring us to life so we could grab the faith He's throwing for our rescue.

The rope is a gift as much as is the Grace that brought it. That rope represents faith, in my little analogy here, so if we find ourselves awake and no longer dead, we must also ask for the faith be given us in truth, so that we can hang onto it and be saved.

Otherwise, we are still dead, mired down in the bog and only fooling ourselves.

Faith is what we hang onto in all things. Faith. And its a gift.

faroukfarouk · Jan 22, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
Yes, you do still have to reach for it, the difference is, some people reach to God, others reach to self.

The question is, are the ones reaching out to self correct in what they are reaching to? Or are those who are reaching to God?

The Calvinist says we must be always reaching to God. Is faith lacking reach to him. Is fruit lacking we reach to Him. Is faith lacking we reach to Him.

He is the object of our worship because we know we cant do anything apart from Him.

If God says come near and we are feeling some quicksand around our feet, we shouldn't sit and try and extricate ourselves (as this struggling only serves to bog you further down), rather, we should beg God to extricate us...

This world and our flesh, is like quicksand. We can fight and fight and fight and only find ourselves more and more entrenched, deeper and deeper the more we struggle.

We need a Savior... the Bible says we are dead in our sins, well, dead men can't grab anything.... So God sent us a Savior who would bring us to life so we could grab the rope he's throwing.

The rope is a gift as much as is the grace that brought it. That rope represents faith, in my little analogy here, so if we find ourselves awake and no longer dead, we must also ask for the faith be given us in truth, so that we can hang on and be saved.

Otherwise, we are still dead, and only fooling ourselves.

Faith and grace: precious themes as we feed on the Word...

renniks · Jan 22, 2020

tdidymas said:
think this is a misconception. God can be angry at sinners but still love them in some way. However, if you come across someone who says that God does not love all people (in some sense), you should ask them why they think that, it may lead to how they interpret scripture.

Well if God created me only for damnation, why would I believe he loved me in any way?

StillGods · Jan 22, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
Yes, you do still have to reach for it, the difference is, some people reach to God, others reach to self.

The question is, are the ones reaching out to self correct in what they are reaching to? Or are those who are reaching to God?

The Calvinist says we must be always reaching to God. Is faith lacking reach to him. Is fruit lacking we reach to Him. Is faith lacking we reach to Him.

He is the object of our worship because we know we cant do anything apart from Him.

If God says come near and we are feeling some quicksand around our feet, we shouldn't sit and try and extricate ourselves (as this struggling only serves to bog you further down), rather, we should beg God to extricate us...

This world and our flesh, is like quicksand. We can fight and fight and fight and only find ourselves more and more entrenched, deeper and deeper the more we struggle.

We need a Savior... the Bible says we are dead in our sins, well, dead men can't grab anything.... So God sent us a Savior who would bring us to life so we could grab the faith He's throwing for our rescue.

The rope is a gift as much as is the Grace that brought it. That rope represents faith, in my little analogy here, so if we find ourselves awake and no longer dead, we must also ask for the faith be given us in truth, so that we can hang onto it and be saved.

Otherwise, we are still dead, mired down in the bog and only fooling ourselves.

Faith is what we hang onto in all things. Faith. And its a gift.

The continual striving thing in Calvinism is bizarre and exhausting.

Personally, once I experienced Gods love freeing me from things I thought I would never be free from, I have felt very secure in His love. I know I'm saved and I will never been taken from His hand either by my own or anyone else's actions God is stronger no one can snatch me from the palm of His hand. He says never will i leave you never will I forsake you, you are mine. that is a wonderful and incredible foundation to live ones life upon. no striving just the reality of salvation. Jesus and His love poured out on the Cross, the solid rock on which I stand. Praise God.

StillGods · Jan 22, 2020

renniks said:
Well if God created me only for damnation, why would I believe he loved me in any way?

yep.

Hazelelponi · Jan 22, 2020

StillGods said:
The continual striving thing in Calvinism is bizarre and exhausting.

Personally, once I experienced Gods love freeing me from things I thought I would never be free from, I have felt very secure in His love. I know I'm saved and I will never been taken from His hand either by my own or anyone else's actions God is stronger no one can snatch me from the palm of His hand. He says never will i leave you never will I forsake you, you are mine. that is a wonderful and incredible foundation to live ones life upon. no striving just the reality of salvation. Jesus and His love poured out on the Cross, the solid rock on which I stand. Praise God.

I have the same surety in my salvation.

I am not in some kind of exhausting struggle, quite the opposite.

from this post I've just quoted, your calvinist. You just don't understand it enough to say it, but you are sitting here believing in reformed theology.

faroukfarouk · Jan 22, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
I have the same surety in my salvation.

I am not in some kind of exhausting struggle, quite the opposite.

from this post I've just quoted, your calvinist. You just don't understand it enough to say it, but you are sitting here believing in reformed theology.

I myself would say that I would hold to sovereign grace, else I would never have come to Christ apart from His gracious drawing of me as a sinner. (This also fits with John 6.)

faroukfarouk · Jan 22, 2020

PS: @Hazelelponi FYI:

I know not why God’s wondrous grace
To me He hath made known,
Nor why, unworthy, Christ in love
Redeemed me for His own.

But “I know Whom I have believed
And am persuaded that He is able
To keep that which I’ve committed
Unto Him against that day.”
2
I know not how this saving faith
To me He did impart,
Nor how believing in His word
Wrought peace within my heart.
3
I know not how the Spirit moves,
Convincing men of sin,
Revealing Jesus through the Word,
Creating faith in Him.
4
I know not what of good or ill
May be reserved for me,
Of weary ways or golden days,
Before His face I see.
5
I know not when my Lord may come,
At night or noon-day fair,
Nor if I’ll walk the vale with Him,
Or “meet Him in the air.”

(Daniel Webster Whittle)

tdidymas · Jan 22, 2020

renniks said:
Well if God created me only for damnation, why would I believe he loved me in any way?

Who says that God creates anyone only for damnation? I said before this is a misconception, so your argument is a straw man.
TD

tdidymas · Jan 22, 2020

StillGods said:
it does not make a better person only saved.

I'm talking about before you're saved. You claim that you first choose to accept Christ and then God saves you, doesn't that make you wiser than the one who rejects him? Wiser is better, isn't it?
TD

StillGods · Jan 23, 2020

tdidymas said:
I'm talking about before you're saved. You claim that you first choose to accept Christ and then God saves you, doesn't that make you wiser than the one who rejects him? Wiser is better, isn't it?
TD

I wouldn't say its wiser, because it's what we were created for - relationship with the Father, that's simply the norm that we were made for. The oddity is to reject Christ.

tdidymas · Jan 23, 2020

StillGods said:
I wouldn't say its wiser, because it's what we were created for - relationship with the Father, that's simply the norm that we were made for. The oddity is to reject Christ.

I agree that to reject Christ is an oddity, not right. But then, if you believe in Augustine's Original Sin idea based on the apostle Paul's teaching, that all people are hopelessly in sin rejecting Christ, then doesn't it preclude that it takes an act of God to get someone back into the "norm" of accepting Him?
TD

renniks · Jan 23, 2020

tdidymas said:
Who says that God creates anyone only for damnation? I said before this is a misconception, so your argument is a straw man.
TD

Unconditional election means just that.

tdidymas · Jan 23, 2020

renniks said:
Unconditional election means just that.

That's what you say because of your bias. Your statement is supralapsarian by nature, which is hyper-calvinsim. It's a common fallacy to confuse hypercalvinism with calvinism. But reformed theology doesn't teach that, it teaches sublapsarianism, which is that election came after the fall in logical order and purpose. IOW, in the plan of God before the foundation of the world, God creates man to show His glory and image. But after that creation, man is foreseen to sin against God, and so for God to exercise His ultimate justice, He plans to judge wicked mankind. But also, He wants to express grace and kindness toward some of them, to save them, and Christ is the answer to that. All this plan was before the world was created. So, God did not create some people just to be condemned. Even wicked people who are ultimately condemned were created for glory, although they won't attain to it. Do you see the difference?
TD

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