Why did Jesus choose 12 men.

Carl Emerson said:

Yes I agree, and that steep probability increased as others were appointed with the title in scripture..

It is hard to avoid the purposeful intent of His appointing.

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Ok, fine. I thought you were going the other way with that, like in terms of Junia.

Carl Emerson said:

If He was 'gender blind' why did He appoint 12 men?

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Perhaps the evangelists were not as gender blind as Jesus was.

Carl Emerson said:

Explain... ??

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I do not regard the gospels as literal histories but rather as interpretive narratives written one or two generations after the fact by people who were not eyewitnesses. They frequently employed Jewish/Hebrew symbolism and literary techniques to give meaning to the stories that were passed on to them.

Carl Emerson said:

Is there an inherent functional difference between the genders that God created, that gave rise to His choice.

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We have a sex, not a gender. Articles of speech have gender. People do not.

If you rephrase the question, I'd have to say no, but that's because I don't see the ministerial priesthood as being one of function.

Why did Jesus choose 12 Jewish men? Why not 15 or 25? Why not ANY Gentiles? In fact, why did the church choose only Jewish people to be Deacons or "helpers" so that the apostles could spend time preaching and teaching? Why did Jesus's brother James end up leading the Jerusalem church rather than Peter when James brother of Jesus was never one of the twelve?

Since both women and Gentiles were obviously also leading and preaching and teaching in the 1st century churches as well, it would be reasonable to suggest that demographics isn't the important factor, but rather who the Spirit calls in spite of race, religious sect, gender, etc.

JackRT said:

I do not regard the gospels as literal histories but rather as interpretive narratives written one or two generations after the fact by people who were not eyewitnesses. They frequently employed Jewish/Hebrew symbolism and literary techniques to give meaning to the stories that were passed on to them.

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Jesus is real, and i was presented the gospel to know him, enough proof for me that the gospels have some accurate history in them, and are not just literature.

theoneandonlypencil said:

Some actually say Mary Magdalene was an Apostle; either way, it seems as though Jesus favored her highly. There was another possible female apostle named Junia(rumor has it that her name was changed to 'Junias' in order to insinuate she was actually male).

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"2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him." (Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 10:2 - New International Version) or any authorized version

Are my eyes going bad or I do not see those two names in the account given many, many years ago, (before the rewriting of history to accommodate current feelings or societal/cultural trends.)

I don't see Jesus chosing anything because of being culturally appropiate though.

gender ----
noun
1. either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated by social and cultural roles and behavior: the feminine gender
Compare sex(def 1
3. Grammar.
(in many languages) a set of classes that together include all nouns, membership in a particular class being shown by the form of the noun itself or by the form or choice of words that modify, replace, or otherwise refer to the noun, as, in English, the choice of he to replace the man, of she to replace the woman, of it to replace the table, of it or she to replace the ship. The number of genders in different languages varies from 2 to more than 20; often the classification correlates in part with sex or animateness. The most familiar sets of genders are of three classes (as masculine, feminine, and neuter in Latin and German) or of two (as common and neuter in Dutch, or masculine and feminine in French and Spanish).

Carl Emerson said:

Is there an inherent functional difference between the genders that God created, that gave rise to His choice.

I you believe this, can you give scriptural support for this assertion.

Or did Jesus just follow what was culturally appropriate?

Subsequent Apostles in the early church were also men.

My aim is not to be a protagonist - I am hoping for constructive respectful dialogue.

May His Love cover this thread.

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12... because the 12 tribes of Israel. Men... my guess is cultural.

Carl Emerson said:

Is there an inherent functional difference between the genders that God created, that gave rise to His choice.

If you believe this, can you give scriptural support for this assertion.

Or did Jesus just follow what was culturally appropriate?

Subsequent Apostles in the early church were also men.

My aim is not to be a protagonist - I am hoping for constructive respectful dialogue.

May His Love cover this thread.

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Women had not yet gained the right to vote. They had not been liberated. Today there are women teachers, managers and politicians as role models for other women.

For the number of primary group members of 12 I offer this:

"What Does the Number 12 Mean in the Bible?
Number 12, as indicated in this article, typically means perfection or authority—often used in a context of government. For instance, because Jacob has 12 sons, they form the 12 tribes of Israel. There are also 12 minor prophets that dot the text of the Old Testament.

Found 187 times in the Bible, the number 12 makes a special appearance in Revelation, showing the authority and perfection of God’s kingdom at last.

We see Jesus chose 12 disciples, and the disciples later replaced Judas Iscariot with Matthias to keep the number at 12 (Acts 1)—to show the perfection and authority of those who followed Jesus.

Similar to the number three, it’s likely not every instance of the number 12 is a ‘good’ kind of perfection. Jesus heals a woman who had been bleeding for 12 years, for instance (Matthew 9:20-22). The 12 years could possibly symbolize just how bad her condition was, signifying the malady as a ‘perfect storm,’ with seemingly no possible cure. Or, it could signify that this was completion of a difficult timeframe and God would be doing a new thing now.

However, 12, more often than not, tends to represent something good. The new Jerusalem, for instance, is stocked full of the number 12 (gates, angels, foundations, etc., Revelation 21)." (pasted from: Interesting Facts about the Meaning & Importance of the Number 12 in the Bible)

For the 12 all being men, so far yet, history not having been rewritten here, yet. Jesus clearly loved and cherished woman and did not hesitate to dialog with them, even against extreme cultural taboo, Samaritan woman at the well. He, CLEARLY, was not allowing culture to dictate His choices concerning woman. I do not think the Bible tells us why so I cannot say; but it appears to definitely be an an intentional choosing of all being men as it is also clear that there were many woman followers whom He loved also constantly and faithfully in His midst.

DamianWarS said:

12... because the 12 tribes of Israel. Men... my guess is cultural.

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Agree...12 tribes...12 apostles. Yeshua said each one would judge one of the 12 tribes.

paul1149 said:

What does that mean? There were 12 "apostle" apostles, 13 including Matthias, 14 including Paul. There is a broader use of the term 'apostle' which brings more into the fold, but they are not of the Twelve and do not affect the steep probabilities I cited.

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Yes, that's right.

It's not unlike the word "elder." When we say that someone is an elder in the church we do not mean just that the person is old, i.e. elderly.