Which of the following people are saved?

mcarans said:

For the following people, please specify if you think they are saved or not and what leads you to think so. Also please indicate if you believe in single or double predestination or not.

1. A miscarried baby
2. A 5 year old who dies before becoming a Christian
3. A 15 year old who dies before becoming a Christian
4. A Christian who develops Alzheimer's or other dementia, rejects that they were ever a believer and passes away
5. A Christian who injures their brain, suffers permanent amnesia, forgets they were ever a Christian, dying many years later having never remembered
6. A person with split personality where one personality identifies as Christian and the other rejects Christianity
7. A Christian who drinks too much one day, while drunk rejects their faith and is killed in an accident before they can remember and repent

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1 yes
2 maybe ( maybe because it depends if he/she is alredy aware or not , myself was aware at that age for sure )
3 if he has mentall ilness yes if not no
4 yes
5 yes
6 yes
7 yes

mcarans said:

For the following people, please specify if you think they are saved or not and what leads you to think so. Also please indicate if you believe in single or double predestination or not.

1. A miscarried baby
2. A 5 year old who dies before becoming a Christian
3. A 15 year old who dies before becoming a Christian
4. A Christian who develops Alzheimer's or other dementia, rejects that they were ever a believer and passes away
5. A Christian who injures their brain, suffers permanent amnesia, forgets they were ever a Christian, dying many years later having never remembered
6. A person with split personality where one personality identifies as Christian and the other rejects Christianity
7. A Christian who drinks too much one day, while drunk rejects their faith and is killed in an accident before they can remember and repent

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Let's just hope they all make it but,
it's a narrow road
so apparently most won't.
M-Bob

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

mcarans said:

For the following people, please specify if you think they are saved or not and what leads you to think so. Also please indicate if you believe in single or double predestination or not.

1. A miscarried baby
2. A 5 year old who dies before becoming a Christian
3. A 15 year old who dies before becoming a Christian
4. A Christian who develops Alzheimer's or other dementia, rejects that they were ever a believer and passes away
5. A Christian who injures their brain, suffers permanent amnesia, forgets they were ever a Christian, dying many years later having never remembered
6. A person with split personality where one personality identifies as Christian and the other rejects Christianity
7. A Christian who drinks too much one day, while drunk rejects their faith and is killed in an accident before they can remember and repent

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On their merits of their works? You could add mother teresa and the apostles of Jesus Christ and the answer would be the same. None.

However Through the Grace and mercy given to us by God through the cross All Can be saved.

heb 4:10-end of the chapter explains the word of God as in John 1:1 the word=christ is out judge and knows what it is like here and will judge out word thoughts and deeds by slicing everything down into transparent pieces, so nothing is hidden and nothing is kept from him. it is this righteousness that we will be judged. it is at this point where we are saved as well if we are to be saved.

Again not of our works/beliefs so no man can boast. it is a work of christ through his pure and correct judgement that determine the fate of all men not just the scenarios you posted above. as there is not enough to judge a whole life based on one or two instances.

mcarans said:

Yes exactly, that's the point of the post.

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Part of the problem though, at least as I see it, and I suspect many others agree as well, is an underlying idea that salvation is mechanical and formulaic.

Our faith in Christ is a hope in God's word and promises to us, and an assurance that God is faithful and keeps His promises. That's why we can point to God's saving actions: Christ died for all, and so all are included in what He accomplished by His death and His resurrection. That's why St. Paul can actually say that literally all have been justified in Romans 5:18. But the application of Christ's work to us as individuals is also a gracious working of God, it is why Christ commissions His Church to preach the Gospel and to baptize, because God works through His word and His Sacraments to join us the work and the person of our Lord Jesus Christ. It's why throughout the New Testament we see statements about how we have been buried with Christ, we have died with Christ, we have been raised with Christ, clothed with Christ, crucified with Christ, new creations in Christ, etc. God comes to us and joins us to Christ and thus all which Christ has accomplished once and for all becomes ours as a pure gift, grace.

It's not about meeting certain criteria, or checking certain boxes. It's about God graciously and lovingly coming down and meeting the world--all of us--in precisely all the messy, complicated, weak, and broken conditions we all are in, and saying, "Come to Me all you who are weary and burdened, I will give you rest." The word God speaks to us in the Gospel is not a condemnation of our sin, but the forgiveness of our sin, and the rest we have with Him, being reconciled and set at peace with God in and through Christ and what Christ has done. And so we can in this present, with faith, boldly call Christ our Savior for He has saved us and is saving us; and we can look forward to what God has promised He will do--for the day is coming when this present age with all its injustice and suffering shall come to an end, and God makes all things new. There is resurrection after the grave, there is a world that will never die. What God has shown us through His Incarnate Son is what He intends for all creation, and so we can look forward, with vibrant hope and anticipation of what God has promised, and that is life everlasting and world without end.

-CryptoLutheran

Jamdoc said:

I think we differ here, I think even if they lived on the other side of the planet and were never preached the gospel, say Native Americans before Columbus came over, no way they heard the gospel (I guess Mormons believe that they did but..). So all of those people, never really had a chance for salvation, but they're still convicted for the sins that they did.

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They will still do things wrong, and may say 'sorry' to each other and whoever they believe in.
But if they've never heard of God, do not know that mankind has sinned against him and that they themselves have sinned against a God they don't know about, how can they be judged in the same way as those who do know?

Jamdoc said:

You have to understand what a gift the gospel really is that we WERE given a chance to be spared from the punishment for our sins. Not everyone has gotten that chance.

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That offer is open to everyone; everyone can have that chance. But some people still do not know about it.
That's why Jesus told his disciples that they must be his witnesses to the ends of the earth, Acts of the Apostles 1:8, and elsewhere said that before the end came, the Gospel would be preached all over the world.

Jamdoc said:

It kind of sucks, but we will see they all get just punishment.

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I doubt they'll be punished for rejecting God's Son when no one told them about him.
God's not like that; he's merciful and compassionate.

Jamdoc said:

So can't you just see the man, being christian, getting drunk, renouncing his faith and getting side swiped by a car and killed, destroying the flesh so the soul might be saved, in the next instant looking at Jesus shaking his head.. how's that for a rebuke?

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I've no idea if that scenario would ever happen.
Like I said, God is compassionate. He knows the difference between someone deliberately and knowingly rejecting their faith, and someone saying something stupid when they had no control over what they were saying - and didn't mean it anyway.

It does also say: '...he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.' (John 3.18)

mcarans said:

For the following people, please specify if you think they are saved or not and what leads you to think so. Also please indicate if you believe in single or double predestination or not.

1. A miscarried baby
2. A 5 year old who dies before becoming a Christian
3. A 15 year old who dies before becoming a Christian
4. A Christian who develops Alzheimer's or other dementia, rejects that they were ever a believer and passes away
5. A Christian who injures their brain, suffers permanent amnesia, forgets they were ever a Christian, dying many years later having never remembered
6. A person with split personality where one personality identifies as Christian and the other rejects Christianity
7. A Christian who drinks too much one day, while drunk rejects their faith and is killed in an accident before they can remember and repent

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Based on what I know of Scripture and my walk with God:


Note: Those who are born with a mental disorder (that prevents them from accepting Jesus or rejecting Him) are saved because they never had a chance at accepting Jesus and in living faithful to Him. Oh, and yes; I believe a person can accept Christ on their deathbeds and be saved.

Ultimately Jesus will judge on these cases (of course) and He has the final word on their lives (and not me). So while I could be wrong, Jesus will be 100% correct on His judgement of these individuals. I am only making my best educated guess based on what knowledge I do have of the Scriptures. For we look through a glass darkly.

Strong in Him said:

They will still do things wrong, and may say 'sorry' to each other and whoever they believe in.
But if they've never heard of God, do not know that mankind has sinned against him and that they themselves have sinned against a God they don't know about, how can they be judged in the same way as those who do know?



That offer is open to everyone; everyone can have that chance. But some people still do not know about it.
That's why Jesus told his disciples that they must be his witnesses to the ends of the earth, Acts of the Apostles 1:8, and elsewhere said that before the end came, the Gospel would be preached all over the world.



I doubt they'll be punished for rejecting God's Son when no one told them about him.
God's not like that; he's merciful and compassionate.



I've no idea if that scenario would ever happen.
Like I said, God is compassionate. He knows the difference between someone deliberately and knowingly rejecting their faith, and someone saying something stupid when they had no control over what they were saying - and didn't mean it anyway.

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Eternal punishment is not for rejecting Jesus, although there might be extra eternal punishment for that, God does promise a "strange punishment" for "workers of iniquity" which could be something extra on top of being cast into the lake of fire.
But eternal punishment is earned just for your own sins, telling lies, being covetous, etc. We've all earned it. We don't have to reject Christ to earn it.
How it works is we're in the book of life from the beginning of the entire universe, we are conceived, born, still alive spiritually, then we learn right and wrong, good and evil, do evil, spiritually die and earn eternal punishment. That's the state of the natural man.
If they never hear about the opportunity for salvation, after losing their place in the book of life, they get the lake of fire.
We're told of a way out of that, told there's a way to quicken the spirit, become a new creature in God, and be saved from the punishment we've EARNED with a GIFT from God.
If we don't accept it, we remain out of the book of life and go into the lake of fire.
If we accept it, we're in the book of life again as a new creature, with Jesus substituting His righteousness as our righteousness. That's a change on the default.
But the default is lake of fire unless you die before sinning.

as for the drunk, I'm thinking of 1 Corinthians 5, particularly 1 Corinthians 5:5. They deliver a sinful Christian to Satan so that his flesh would be destroyed so that his soul is saved. It's one of the scriptures I see as showing a saved by grace and once saved always saved doctrine because, once having faith in Jesus, once saved, God's punishment is on the flesh rather than on the soul. You sin as a Christian and your flesh is gonna suffer, maybe even be killed. But the soul is saved through Jesus Christ.

Bible Highlighter said:

Based on what I know of Scripture and my walk with God:

1. Babies who die go to Heaven (David said he would see his son again who died in a miscarriage).
2. Most likely saved. (Jesus said children are of the kingdom).
3. Not exactly clear. They could be saved. The age of accountability of a child who learns of right and wrong according to God may differ. So there may not be a definitive set age that we are aware of when this happens. Only Jesus can judge in this situation. But if a child reaches an age where God does feel that they are accountable to right and wrong, and they reject Jesus, they will not be saved.
4. This appears to be a form of judgment; So they are not saved (Believers who live out their faith need both Justification and Sanctification for salvation - 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:24, and John 5:24).
5. This appears to be a form of judgment; So they are not saved (Believers who live out their faith need both Justification and Sanctification for salvation - 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:24, and John 5:24).
6. This appears to be a form of judgment; So they are not saved (Believers who live out their faith need both Justification and Sanctification for salvation - 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:24, and John 5:24).
7. This is either an example of a once saved believer who fell away from Jesus and died spiritually or an unsaved professing believer who accepted an Antinomian version of Jesus from the beginning of their faith; In either case, in the end (in this kind of scenario), neither of them are saved (Believers who live out their faith need both Justification and Sanctification for salvation - 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:24, and John 5:24).​

Note: Those who are born with a mental disorder (that prevents them from accepting Jesus or rejecting Him) are saved because they never had a chance at accepting Jesus and in living faithful to Him. Oh, and yes; I believe a person can accept Christ on their deathbeds and be saved.

Ultimately Jesus will judge on these cases (of course) and He has the final word on their lives (and not me). So while I could be wrong, Jesus will be 100% correct on His judgement of these individuals. I am only making my best educated guess based on what knowledge I do have of the Scriptures. For we look through a glass darkly.

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Explain 1 Corinthians 5:5 using your works based salvation doctrine.
As for the Alzheimer's, that is biology, that is the flesh failing and this flesh IS failing ever since sin entered the world it goes right down to our DNA, no flesh lives forever, and everyone gets sick and many people have things just in their DNA that will develop into sickness over time whether they are saved or not, whether they live a good life or not (although living a bad life is MORE likely to cause illness, it can always just be a biological thing). When you are saved, your spirit is quickened but your flesh is the same old rotten sinful flesh. Sometimes a disease can be scourging or chastisement from the Lord for walking contrary to Him as a bad child of God (it doesn't mean you aren't a child of God though, in fact it can be evidence that God is dealing with you "as a son" all by itself if whenever they sin their flesh is afflicted and bad things happen to them) Hebrews 12:5-8 but also remember John 9:3, not all afflictions and disabilities are punishment, sometimes its for the glory of God, maybe that affliction is what draws a person to God in the first place (in the case of Alzheimers probably not unless he makes a miraculous recovery and it glorifies God, but I was just talking affliction in general)
The traumatic brain injury isn't always a punishment either, it could have been caused by someone else's action, their free will. God does not protect you from the free will of others to do evil. When the Great Tribulations come, there's going to be a lot of Christians hunted down and killed, that doesn't mean they weren't true Christians because God didn't protect them, quite the opposite. Revelation 6:9-11 So we can't really judge that because something bad happened to him, that he's not a son of God. he could be a son of God walking in the flesh, someone else could have used their free will wrongly and resulted in an accident (or intentional malice) and once that injury has happened, that's the failing and weakness of the flesh.
The mentally ill, that can be a failure of the flesh, either something just naturally in their DNA, it can be an affliction for walking contrary to God once saved again a chastisement of the Lord, and if they were not saved, it could also be demonic possession. So it really depends on the nature of the mental illness.
The drunk.. I really think that's a 1 Corinthians 5 moment. Killing the flesh to save the soul. Or he could never have been really saved.

mcarans said:

For the following people, please specify if you think they are saved or not and what leads you to think so. Also please indicate if you believe in single or double predestination or not.

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I think the most important question to discuss is this view of predestination. If we are talking predestination of people's wills to salvation or damnation, neither is orthodox teaching.

St. John of Damascus:
"We ought to understand that while God knows all things beforehand, yet He does not predetermine all things. For He knows beforehand those things that are in our power, but He does not predetermine them. For it is not His will that there should be wickedness nor does He choose to compel virtue. So that predetermination is the work of the divine command based on fore-knowledge. But on the other hand God predetermines those things which are not within our power in accordance with His prescience (NPNF Series 2 Vol. IX p. 42)."

mcarans said:

What about a 10 year old or a 5 year old who rejected the Gospel? Is it a case of the age at which they full understand what they are rejecting?
For 3, yes I was thinking of someone who normally drinks in moderation, but for whatever reason drinks too much or perhaps a better example would be someone who has an adverse reaction to medication.

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Do any of us "fully understand" the Gospel? It is not the integrity of our decision, but of God's work in us, that saves. He does the regenerating --we respond.

Oh and as for predestination, I don't believe in predestination at all, I believe in free will.

Jamdoc said:

Oh and as for predestination, I don't believe in predestination at all, I believe in free will.

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You will have to cut out a lot of verses out the bible, maybe like the 'Jefferson bible', where he just kept the verses he liked!

As for the OP, we were alive once, as a baby, then sin comes, & unless you are chosen by God Jn15v16, you will not be saved. Only believers are predestined, everyone else are ordained 'elsewhere'.

Jamdoc said:

Eternal punishment is not for rejecting Jesus, although there might be extra eternal punishment for that, God does promise a "strange punishment" for "workers of iniquity" which could be something extra on top of being cast into the lake of fire.
But eternal punishment is earned just for your own sins, telling lies, being covetous, etc. We've all earned it. We don't have to reject Christ to earn it.

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Yes, all have sinned against God, Romans 3:23.
Without Christ, forgiveness, reconciliation and peace with God are not possible. We cannot get rid of our sin on our own, and cannot cover, or atone for it by good deeds. Only Jesus, and his saving death on the cross, can do this for us.
If someone rejects Jesus, there is no other way their sin can be forgiven, Acts of the Apostles 4:12; they have rejected the only Way to God, John 14:6. So when they die and stand before God, they will stand before him as an unforgiven sinner.

But if people have never heard the Gospel, never been told that Jesus is the only Saviour and only way to God, how can they be judged for not accepting it? That would be unjust - to condemn someone for not asking for forgiveness for their sins when they didn't know that they could.

Jamdoc said:

How it works is we're in the book of life from the beginning of the entire universe, we are conceived, born, still alive spiritually, then we learn right and wrong, good and evil, do evil, spiritually die and earn eternal punishment. That's the state of the natural man.

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Many would say that we inherit Adam's sinful nature.
Some say that babies have this nature and if they die before a certain age, there is no hope.
I believe, personally, if they were to die before they can hear the Gospel, God has mercy.

Jamdoc said:

If they never hear about the opportunity for salvation, after losing their place in the book of life, they get the lake of fire.

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So God, who is love, 1 John 4:8, who is perfect, Matthew 5:48, who has great compassion, Psalms 51:1, Exodus 34:6 and whose compassion never fails, Lamentations 3:23, will condemn someone to eternal punishment because no Christian has ever told them about Jesus and how they can be saved and forgiven for their sin?

I don't believe that about God.

Jamdoc said:

We're told of a way out of that, told there's a way to quicken the spirit, become a new creature in God, and be saved from the punishment we've EARNED with a GIFT from God.
If we don't accept it, we remain out of the book of life and go into the lake of fire.
If we accept it, we're in the book of life again as a new creature, with Jesus substituting His righteousness as our righteousness. That's a change on the default.
But the default is lake of fire unless you die before sinning.

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Are you saying that everyone's name is in the book of life to begin with, it is removed when they sin, and then put back in when they become a Christian?
What happens when a Christian sins - is it removed again until they repent? Is it written only in pencil for a while, then inked in when they die and sin is no longer possible?

Jamdoc said:

as for the drunk, I'm thinking of 1 Corinthians 5, particularly 1 Corinthians 5:5. They deliver a sinful Christian to Satan so that his flesh would be destroyed so that his soul is saved.

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If a sinful Christian was "delivered to Satan", I am certain that Satan would not let them go again. Their soul would not be saved, it would belong to the devil.

Jamdoc said:

You sin as a Christian and your flesh is gonna suffer, maybe even be killed. But the soul is saved through Jesus Christ.

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We all sin as Christians.
I see no Scriptures which say that Jesus's death on the cross was not enough, and God continues to punish us for those sins.
So if a Christian is ill, is that illness a punishment for their sin?

Ricky M said:

1, 2, and 3 all have to do with the age of accountability. I believe we are born saved, until we come to a point where we think we know enough to make a descision on that.

4 - 7 I believe a tie goes to the runner.

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I think the age of accountability is something people make up because they want to but I don’t see evidence of it in scripture. Do you have a verse or two you could share? I’ve never really gotten any responses to that question

IMO the Bible demonstrates It is not unjust for people to suffer the consequences of their sin, even if they never hear the gospel. It’s unjust for them to receive mercy. Mercy is—by definition—unmerited favor.



the hard truth is the scriptures are abundantly clear that one must believe in Christ to be saved. That doesn’t mean God couldn’t provide the gospel by direct revelation, but it means if someone dies without knowledge of the savior and saving faith; that receive just punishment.

there are lots of things that seem harsh or unfair in the New Testament and Old Testament to us. I suppose it comes
Down to we believe what the Bible says or not have a nice week!!

Strong in Him said:

Yes, all have sinned against God, Romans 3:23.
Without Christ, forgiveness, reconciliation and peace with God are not possible. We cannot get rid of our sin on our own, and cannot cover, or atone for it by good deeds. Only Jesus, and his saving death on the cross, can do this for us.
If someone rejects Jesus, there is no other way their sin can be forgiven, Acts of the Apostles 4:12; they have rejected the only Way to God, John 14:6. So when they die and stand before God, they will stand before him as an unforgiven sinner.

But if people have never heard the Gospel, never been told that Jesus is the only Saviour and only way to God, how can they be judged for not accepting it? That would be unjust - to condemn someone for not asking for forgiveness for their sins when they didn't know that they could.

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Because they sinned. Appreciate the gift we have been given to have heard the gospel and accepted it. We don't deserve it, we all deserve hell. Ultimately those people are getting what they deserved and what we deserve, we are just given a gift. That should be utterly humbling. I understand your compassion, but you have to have faith that God's judgments on this world are just, and when you are with Him after shedding the flesh, you'll have a new perspective, you will see that it is much more than them just not accepting Jesus, they have a bunch of secret sins, and are getting what they deserve and what they have earned.
While we are wrong to disagree with God's judgments, it's understandable from our limited perspectives to do so, because we are not perfect, it's in our nature to be wrong. Sometimes we think if it were up to us, we'd do things differently. I know I wouldn't send someone to eternal punishment, I'd just annihilate them forever. Just non existence. But God has a reason for eternal punishment, and I only hope that I'll understand it someday.
The same goes with some things promised about the new earth. Some things I really enjoy, that are not sinful, won't be present in the new earth, and sometimes those things make me anxious. Marriage (Matthew 22:30), the oceans (Revelation 21:1), a star filled night sky lit by the moon and stars alone (21:23), a sunrise or sunset (same Revelation scripture just back there).
But all I can really do is trust that even without these things, the new creation will be better, I can only trust God on it.

Many would say that we inherit Adam's sinful nature.
Some say that babies have this nature and if they die before a certain age, there is no hope.
I believe, personally, if they were to die before they can hear the Gospel, God has mercy.

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Sinful nature, yes, inherit his sin no. That's a false doctrine of Original Sin. We inherit the capability and propensity to sin. We choose it. We do wrong things at first as young children because we know no better, we don't know what we're doing is wrong, but later we learn the difference between wrong and right... and CHOOSE to do wrong. That is where we die spiritually.
Romans 7:9-11
Before that though, we're alive spiritually, and if a child dies at that time they haven't sinned, so they are of the kingdom of God
Matthew 19:14
Matthew 18:3

So God, who is love, 1 John 4:8, who is perfect, Matthew 5:48, who has great compassion, Psalms 51:1, Exodus 34:6 and whose compassion never fails, Lamentations 3:23, will condemn someone to eternal punishment because no Christian has ever told them about Jesus and how they can be saved and forgiven for their sin?

I don't believe that about God.

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Sin cannot enter the kingdom of God. So either a person has to be sinless, like an innocent young child, or, they have Jesus' righteousness substituted for their own through Jesus death, burial, and resurrection.
Only way to have that substitution is to have faith in Jesus Christ.
The way to save those people who haven't heard the Gospel.. is to teach them the Gospel.. that's why there's so many missions around the world.

Are you saying that everyone's name is in the book of life to begin with, it is removed when they sin, and then put back in when they become a Christian?
What happens when a Christian sins - is it removed again until they repent? Is it written only in pencil for a while, then inked in when they die and sin is no longer possible?

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No I do believe in eternal security. Once your spirit has been quickened when you are saved you're back in the book of life and there is only one thing I know of that can have it be removed.
Revelation 22:19
I believe that once you are saved, your spirit is a "new creature" (2 Corinthians 5:17), and that spirit won't be condemned (barring removing words from Revelation to change the meanings to deceive people) (John 5:24). However, when you're saved, does your flesh change? Do you instantly get a new body? No. That flesh is still the same sinful flesh you had before you were saved, and yes, it will be tempted and it will sin. Romans 7 shows the Apostle Paul's personal struggles with sin, because his body is carnal and prone to sin. Galatians 5 goes into it as well. This struggle between flesh and spirit that persists after being saved. You hate sin, but your flesh still wants to do it.
So while your spirit is new, and won't be condemned, and you still sin in your flesh, God doesn't condemn your spirit, he punishes your flesh. Hebrews 12:5-8 refers to it as scourging and chastisement. You do something wrong as a Christian, God punishes your flesh on this earth to correct you.

If a sinful Christian was "delivered to Satan", I am certain that Satan would not let them go again. Their soul would not be saved, it would belong to the devil.

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The spirit/soul already belongs to God, when they deliver a sinning Christian to Satan it's the flesh that Satan destroys, He doesn't get the spirit. The spirit goes to the Lord. That's what the verse says, destroy the flesh so the spriit can be saved.
1 Corinthians 5:5 read it yourself, read 1 Corinthians 5 for context about a Christian in the church who is committing adultery.

We all sin as Christians.
I see no Scriptures which say that Jesus's death on the cross was not enough, and God continues to punish us for those sins.
So if a Christian is ill, is that illness a punishment for their sin?

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That's true, but our flesh is still subject to death.
and no not all illness there are biological causes too. Or it can be for God's glory such as the blind man that Jesus healed. But it can be chastisement from the Lord. We shouldn't judge like Job's friends, but acknowledge that it can be a possibility. I don't use it as a way to say that "they're not saved" I actually consider chastisement of a person who professes to have faith in Jesus but walking contrary to God (IE you know for fact they're getting drunk, using drugs, committing fornication, etc) and they have nothing but illness and problems in their life that that's actually a sign that God is "dealing with them as a son", a sign that they probably are saved. But I don't necessarily judge a person who says they're saved , has all these illnesses and problems to necessarily be doing something wrong, I'm not going to say "what are you doing wrong to earn the chastisement?" Cause it could be for another reason. That's just if they tell you they're an alcoholic and they have all these problems and they're a Christian, then it's probably chastisement. Does that make sense?

GaveMeJoy said:

I think the age of accountability is something people make up because they want to but I don’t see evidence of it in scripture. Do you have a verse or two you could share? I’ve never really gotten any responses to that question

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2 Samuel 12:22-23
Romans 7:9-11
Matthew 18:3
Matthew 18:10
Matthew 19:14
Logic question. What sin does an infant commit that would earn them eternal punishment? The only way to condemn a miscarriage, stillborn, abortion, or infant who dies, is to adopt the "original sin" doctrine which imputes Adam's sin directly on all of us, which is ridiculous.

mcarans said:

For the following people, please specify if you think they are saved or not and what leads you to think so. Also please indicate if you believe in single or double predestination or not.

1. A miscarried baby
2. A 5 year old who dies before becoming a Christian
3. A 15 year old who dies before becoming a Christian
4. A Christian who develops Alzheimer's or other dementia, rejects that they were ever a believer and passes away
5. A Christian who injures their brain, suffers permanent amnesia, forgets they were ever a Christian, dying many years later having never remembered
6. A person with split personality where one personality identifies as Christian and the other rejects Christianity
7. A Christian who drinks too much one day, while drunk rejects their faith and is killed in an accident before they can remember and repent

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I don't know. (and I think you're asking the wrong person)