False gospels do not require you to overcome sin

CharismaticLady said:

This is why He left and sent back His Spirit to indwell us - glorification. When all our sin is taken away in justification, we are set apart unto God - sanctification. That is why it is in scripture as past tense.

Most teachers explain sanctification as a process during our lifetime to overcome sin. That is false. Jesus already took away our sin, and in Him there is no sin.

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The old saying is true, we are saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved.

The apostle Paul tells us that when we are saved, we receive the Holy Spirit as a down payment on our salvation until our redemption at the resurrection.

Eph. 1:13-14
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

From the time we receive the Holy Spirit until the resurrection we are being conformed into Christ. This is our sanctification, it is an ongoing process.

Phil. 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

The day of Jesus Christ is the day of resurrection at His coming.

Examples of false gospels that I've heard over the years:

Salvation is by grace through faith + works and is also maintained by works.
Salvation is "initially" received by grace through faith, not works, then is maintained by works.
Salvation is "initially" received by grace through faith, not works, then is maintained by sinless perfection.
Salvation is by grace through faith + "these" works and just not "those" works.
Salvation is by grace through faith + being water baptized 'in Jesus name only' followed by speaking in tongues. No tongues, no Holy Spirit.
Salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

CharismaticLady said:

This is why He left and sent back His Spirit to indwell us - glorification. When all our sin is taken away in justification, we are set apart unto God - sanctification. That is why it is in scripture as past tense.

Most teachers explain sanctification as a process during our lifetime to overcome sin. That is false. Jesus already took away our sin, and in Him there is no sin.

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This isn't in past tense ... and is directed at the church in Thessalonika ...

1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

BCsenior said:

False gospels do not require you to overcome sin, but they sure are popular!

Will a full page of 10 proof verses be enough, or do you require 5 pages of 50 verses?

“If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed,
rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched” (Mark 9:43)
Do you think Jesus is deadly serious about getting rid of sin?

“… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death,
or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness …
For when you were slaves of sin … the end of those things is (eternal) death.
… For the wages of sin is (eternal) death …” (Romans 6:16-23)

“For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things
of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.” (Romans 8:5-6)

“For if you live by its dictates, you will die (spiritually). But if through the power of the Spirit
you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live (eternally).
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.” (Romans 8:13-14)

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,
nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners
will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness,
lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outburst of wrath, selfish
ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like;
of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those
who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21)

“Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
For he who sows to his flesh (sins) will of the flesh reap corruption,
but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.” (Galatians 6:7-8)

“But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you,
as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting …
For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater,
has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words,
for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:3-6)

“Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of (eternal) life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him
… But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown,
brings forth (eternal) death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:12-16)

“God’s will is for you to be holy … live in holiness and honor …
God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives.
So, anyone who refuses to live by these rules is rejecting God.” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)

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Have you "overcome" sin, yourself?

renniks said:

You are putting the cart before the horse.

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No, you are evading the question.

You'll have to take the cart/horse arrangement up with Jesus, because I'm not doing anything, he said it, not me.

Anyway, thanks just the same.

JacksBratt said:

Have you "overcome" sin, yourself?

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Question always reminds me of this

"And even those who advocate circumcision don’t keep the whole law themselves. They only want you to be circumcised so they can boast about it and claim you as their disciples."

Galatians 6:13 (NLT)

and this

"For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws."

James 2:10 (NLT)

A_Thinker said:

Heaven is not a reward. Heaven is a gift, given to those willing to place their trust in Christ. Now, that is a good thing ... which pleases the Father, so, in that sense, every believer has done good.

There are rewards for Godly living and service, ... but heaven (i.e. relationship with God) is a gift.

1 Corinthians 3

11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

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Explaining ones answer is fine but I still don't know if your answer was yes or no? Can you please include that so I'm certain where you stand, and I'll be happy to read any explanation that follows?

A_Thinker said:

Heaven is not a reward. Heaven is a gift, given to those willing to place their trust in Christ. Now, that is a good thing ... which pleases the Father, so, in that sense, every believer has done good.

There are rewards for Godly living and service, ... but heaven (i.e. relationship with God) is a gift.

1 Corinthians 3

11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

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That's one way to think about it..

I tend to believe that heaven is God's realm. It's not a gift for man... nor a reward.. It's a place...

Mankind, being sinful, could never go there.. but, covered by the blood of the lamb and washed white as snow... we will be able to.

God will also make a new heaven and a new earth where all these humans, once dirty with sin, now righteous.. will cohabitate with their creator where earth and heaven reside together.

Not a gift/reward.. but the way it was supposed to be if we had no sin.

I don't have a firm position on this topic, because i think i don't know enough,

What i know:

We are called to leave the 'gross' stuff out, we can't expect to sin frequently and be ok with God and have close communion with him. I don't know what happens when a christian that sins frequently passes away, especially if they want to stop sinning but can't, like adictions or something, but we should try to be free with the help of God of being slaves to some sin.

Another important thing:
You can't expect to stay filled with the Holy spirit if you sin, the Holy spirit can't live where there is dirt, those are incompatible things, and like or not, being filled with the HS is for clean people. You can't force the HS to live with your sins, he will go away.

NBB said:

You can't expect to stay filled with the Holy spirit if you sin, the Holy spirit can't live where there is dirt, those are incompatible things, and like or not, being filled with the HS is for clean people. You can't force the HS to live with your sins, he will go away.

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There is no scriptural support for the idea that the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in a imperfect vessel. Certainly Jesus dwelt in the midst of an unclean people ... to which he ministered.

Similarly, there is no scriptural support for the Holy Spirit leaving an imperfect vessel. Certainly the Holy Spirit continued to reside in Peter, even when he sinned in his hypocrisy regarding eating with Gentiles.

Kenny'sID said:

No, you are evading the question.

You'll have to take the cart/horse arrangement up with Jesus, because I'm not doing anything, he said it, not me.

Anyway, thanks just the same.

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I didn't avoid anything. I explained it using scripture, which you ignored.

renniks said:

I didn't avoid anything. I explained it using scripture, which you ignored.

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Nope, didn't ignore a thing, I simply didn't see a definitive answer in there, and that's alright, I really didn't expect one, but one can still hope for an honest, straightforward reply.

A_Thinker said:

There is no scriptural support for the idea that the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in a imperfect vessel. Certainly Jesus dwelt in the midst of an unclean people ... to which he ministered.

Similarly, there is no scriptural support for the Holy Spirit leaving an imperfect vessel. Certainly the Holy Spirit resided in Peter, even when he sinned in his hypocrisy regarding eating with Gentiles.

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I'm talking about the 'filling' of the Holy Spirit, yes he will not live with you if you sin frequently, being filled with the HS, and living in the dirt are not compatible.
And i'm not talking about 'imperfections' or errors, i say actual grave sins.

I don't care about being 'sinless' or not, or 'perfect', but this is a reality: the HS will not stay with you if you sin frequently with grave sins.

A_Thinker said:

There is no scriptural support for the idea that the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in a imperfect vessel.

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Who claimed the Holy Spirit could dwell only in perfect people? You are basically make a charge someone maid that claim, do you have proof of that or is it just another of many deceptions used to defend your end of this?

Please, will you show us your proof, or at the least be honest and say you haven't any? And if not, is it any wonder there is no scriptural support for such?

CharismaticLady said:

Sanctification is past tense as soon as we are cleansed of all sin. From that point on is glorification. We are becoming like Christ in this life, not just the next.

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No sanctification is a lifelong process. Glorification happens after we leave this life.

Kenny'sID said:

Who claimed the Holy Spirit could dwell only in perfect people? You are basically make a charge someone maid that claim, do you have proof of that or is it just another of many deceptions used to defend your end of this?

Please, will you show us your proof, or at the least be honest and say you haven't any? And if not, is it any wonder there is no scriptural support for such?

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It wasn't you.

It was NBB ... see post #171

friend of said:

No sanctification is a lifelong process. Glorification happens after we leave this life.

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@A_Thinker believes sanctification is "being freed from the power of sin." What is your definition? I believe it is being set apart unto God after being cleansed of all sin, which to me happens at the same time as justification, so is back to back.

A_Thinker said:

It wasn't you.

It was NBB ... see post #171

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No i didn't claim you had to be perfect at all, just meeting the minimum, which is not do serious sin frequently. Because the HS cannot live with you if you wallow in dirt.

CharismaticLady said:

believes sanctification is "being freed from the power of sin." What is your definition? I believe it is being set apart unto God after being cleansed of all sin, which to me happens at the same time as justification, so is back to back

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My definition is that it is a lifelong process of putting to death deeds of the flesh. We are declared righteous through justification by Christ's blood, but that doesn't always mean that the person is cleansed of their old fleshly habits. Putting deeds of the flesh to death can sometimes take time. If you were able to put away all of your outward sins immediately after accepting Jesus then good for you, but for the rest of us sin still has some hold on us that we are endeavoring to break free from.

A_Thinker said:

It wasn't you.

It was NBB ... see post #171

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I need you to point me to the exact line in that post because I honestly didn't see it, or anything close...thanks