LDS Mormonism and Non-Mormons

dzheremi said:

I'm not sure what else we can call someone who founds a religion in order that it be a replacement for Christianity, pretends as though the Holy Bible needs his 'correction', marries other men's wives and little girls in order to satisfy his own lusts, seeks to found a theocratic state with him as its leader, etc.

...I mean, other than Muhammad, but we're talking about Joseph Smith here. Joseph Smith also did these things, and just like every other religious fraud who thinks he knows better than God what God Himself has established, yes, he is an anti-Christ.

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The Holy Bible did need corrections. Being sealed is not the same as marriage and he did not satisfy his lusts with other women.

mmksparbud said:

What is a test?

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This life is a test to see who will obey God and who won't.

He is the way said:

This life is a test to see who will obey God and who won't.

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Since the fall, God has given us this life to choose whom we will serve.

mmksparbud said:

Since the fall, God has given us this life to choose whom we will serve.

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That simply isn't correct. Since the fall, humanity by default has no choice to make.
Psalm 14:2-3; Psalm 53:2-3

Romans 3:11-18 (quoting multiple OT Scriptures)

twin.spin said:

That simply isn't correct. Since the fall, humanity by default has no choice to make.
Psalm 14:2-3; Psalm 53:2-3

2 God looks down from heaven on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand any who seek God.
3 Everyone has turned away, all have become corrupt;
there is no one who does good, not even one.​

Romans 3:11-18 (quoting multiple OT Scriptures)

11 “There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.” (Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Eccles. 7:20)

13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.” (Psalm 5:9)
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.” (Psalm 140:3)

14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” (Psalm 10:7)

15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.” (Isaiah 59:7,8)

18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Psalm 36:1)​

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This is debatable, but we are to debate the Mormons, not Traditional Christians.

twin.spin said:

That simply isn't correct. Since the fall, humanity by default has no choice to make.
Psalm 14:2-3; Psalm 53:2-3

2 God looks down from heaven on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand any who seek God.
3 Everyone has turned away, all have become corrupt;
there is no one who does good, not even one.​

Romans 3:11-18 (quoting multiple OT Scriptures)

11 “There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.” (Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Eccles. 7:20)

13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.” (Psalm 5:9)
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.” (Psalm 140:3)

14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” (Psalm 10:7)

15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.” (Isaiah 59:7,8)

18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Psalm 36:1)​

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(Old Testament | Joshua 24:14 - 16)

14 ¶ Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;

(New Testament | Romans 6:15 - 18)

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

twin.spin said:

That simply isn't correct. Since the fall, humanity by default has no choice to make.
Psalm 14:2-3; Psalm 53:2-3

2 God looks down from heaven on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand any who seek God.
3 Everyone has turned away, all have become corrupt;
there is no one who does good, not even one.​

Romans 3:11-18 (quoting multiple OT Scriptures)

11 “There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.” (Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Eccles. 7:20)

13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.” (Psalm 5:9)
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.” (Psalm 140:3)

14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” (Psalm 10:7)

15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.” (Isaiah 59:7,8)

18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Psalm 36:1)​

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This is a forum to dicuss with Mormons, the mods will shut down the thread if Christians start debating Christians. You have the right to believe we have no choice---I totally disagree and we must leave this at that---we disagree.

False religion really stinks!

Phoebe Ann said:

False religions demand OBEDIENCE to false gods and false commandments. They stress that OBEDIENCE.

In Mormonism you are told repeatedly to obey the extra biblical commandments and to follow the "Prophet" without question.

"I do not believe members of this Church can be in full harmony with the Savior without sustaining His living prophet on the earth, the President of the Church. If we do not sustain the living prophet, whoever he may be, we die spiritually. Ironically, some have died spiritually by exclusively following prophets who have long been dead. Others equivocate in their support of living prophets, trying to lift themselves up by putting down the living prophets, however subtly...
"We have been promised that the President of the Church, as the revelator for the Church, will receive guidance for all of us. Our safety lies in paying heed to that which he says and following his counsel.” (James E. Faust, Ensign, Aug. 1996)
Continuing Revelation

“Prophets are inspired to provide us with prophetic priorities to protect us from dangers. As an example, President Heber J. Grant, the prophet from 1918 to 1945, was inspired to emphasize adherence to the Word of Wisdom [see Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Heber J. Grant (2002), 189–97], the principle with a promise revealed by the Lord to the Prophet Joseph [see D&C 89]. He stressed the importance of not smoking or drinking alcoholic beverages and directed the bishops to review these principles in temple recommend interviews.
(Quentin L. Cook, Conference Report, Apr. 2008, 48–49; or Ensign, May 2008, 48; emphasis added).
Give Heed unto the Prophets’ Words

Listening to and following the words of the living prophets strengthen our faith in Jesus Christ
(see Romans 10:17). The Prophet Joseph Smith taught, “Faith comes by hearing the word of God, through the testimony of the servants of God; that testimony is always attended by the Spirit of prophecy and revelation [see Revelation 19:10]” (in History of the Church, 3:379; emphasis added). Prophets declare the word of God by the spirit of prophecy so that those who hear may exercise faith in Jesus Christ.
Chapter 1: Our Need for Living Prophets

“It is no small thing, my brothers and sisters, to have a prophet of God in our midst. … When we hear the counsel of the Lord expressed through the words of the President of the Church, our response should be positive and prompt. History shows that there is safety, peace, prosperity, and happiness in responding to prophetic counsel as did Nephi of old: ‘I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded’ (1 Nephi 3:7).
M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
“His Word Ye Shall Receive”


Doctrine and Covenants 21
4 Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me;
5 For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.
6 For by doing these things the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.
Obedience to the Prophets

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Those who know the commandments of LOVE NEED to keep them in order to have eternal life:

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Those who know and do not keep these commandments have NO promise.

We have been told to follow the prophets by Jesus Christ when He told the story of Lazarus and the rich man:

(New Testament | Luke 16:29 - 31)

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

He is the way said:

Those who know the commandments of LOVE NEED to keep them in order to have eternal life:

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

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You, and anyone else, are far more likely to acquire the knowledge of God, which is eternal Life, from within the true Church which was built up upon the foundation laid by Christ, which is Christ Himself (the Chief Cornerstone), and His 12 Holy Apostles, than by adhering to things which are the offspring of the teachings of false prophets.

If True Love is what you seek, I'd seek it here, where for a great many of us that Love was far more valuable than everything -- even this temporal life itself. For in the twentieth century alone, an estimated 40 million Orthodox Christians gave their lives for their faith, primarily under communism. So high is the commitment of many Orthodox Christians to Christ and His Church, she has often been called “the Church of the Martyrs.” (See here)

He is the way said:

Those who know the commandments of LOVE NEED to keep them in order to have eternal life:

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Those who know and do not keep these commandments have NO promise.

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There is no "keeping the commandments" promise in the Scripture you quoted. And, the least you could do is be honest and admit the lds church adds on many non-Biblical commandments that its members must keep to reach exaltation.

He is the way said:

We have been told to follow the prophets by Jesus Christ when He told the story of Lazarus and the rich man:

(New Testament | Luke 16:29 - 31)

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

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The prophets referred to here do not include any of the lds false prophets that you follow.

Your random verse postings still do not support your claims that your church is "true".

truefiction1 said:

You, and anyone else, are far more likely to acquire the knowledge of God, which is eternal Life, from within the true Church which was built up upon the foundation laid by Christ, which is Christ Himself (the Chief Cornerstone), and His 12 Holy Apostles, than by adhering to things which are the offspring of the teachings of false prophets.

If True Love is what you seek, I'd seek it here, where for a great many of us that Love was far more valuable than everything -- even this temporal life itself. For in the twentieth century alone, an estimated 40 million Orthodox Christians gave their lives for their faith, primarily under communism. So high is the commitment of many Orthodox Christians to Christ and His Church, she has often been called “the Church of the Martyrs.” (See here)

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LOVE can be attained by anyone who is willing to LOVE Jesus enough to keep the commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

BigDaddy4 said:

There is no "keeping the commandments" promise in the Scripture you quoted. And, the least you could do is be honest and admit the lds church adds on many non-Biblical commandments that its members must keep to reach exaltation.



The prophets referred to here do not include any of the lds false prophets that you follow.

Your random verse postings still do not support your claims that your church is "true".

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There are many commandments, but they ALL hinge on these two commandments of LOVE:

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

(New Testament | Matthew 22:37 - 40)

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The promise is that if you keep these commandments will have eternal life. However there are more promises, here are some:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21 - 23)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

(New Testament | John 14:15 - 16)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

BigDaddy4 said:

There is no "keeping the commandments" promise in the Scripture you quoted. And, the least you could do is be honest and admit the lds church adds on many non-Biblical commandments that its members must keep to reach exaltation.



The prophets referred to here do not include any of the lds false prophets that you follow.

Your random verse postings still do not support your claims that your church is "true".

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Your presumption that modern day prophets of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Saints are false prophets is wrong.

truefiction1 said:

You do not keep Christ's Commandments if you do not do everything He has commanded, which you do not do, on account of the teachings of the false prophets.

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Your opinion has been noted.

He is the way said:

Your presumption that modern day prophets of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Saints are false prophets is wrong.

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Nope. In former days God spoke to us through prophets. In these latter days He has revealed Himself to us through His Son (Hebrews 1:1-2). We have the Son of God, so you can go ahead and keep your so-called prophets if you want. But there are unimaginably unfortunate consequences if you continue.

He is the way said:

Your opinion has been noted.

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The most essential of Christ's commandments, which pertain only to His true disciples, you do not keep, nor can you keep it, because the doctrine of the lds won't allow. I won't elaborate, because it is not a matter to be discussed between us.

truefiction1 said:

The two witnesses of Revelation are either Elijah and Enoch, or Elijah and Moses. Neither of them are Joseph Smith, and that is a surety. The only fire that Joseph Smith spit out was that which accompanied the bullets that were expelled from the revolver that he used to try to kill his attackers with on the day that he was killed.

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No one knows who the prophets mentioned in Revelation are. You assume it is Elijah and Enoch, or Elijah and Moses because that fits what you believe, but the Bible does not say this. Neither does the Bible state that prophets became obsolete.