Huge Gun-Lovers Rally on MLK Day - Not A Coincidence but By Design

Status
Not open for further replies.

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,640
7,849
63
Martinez
✟903,186.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You are the arbiter of what the Holy Spirit does and does not inspire God's people to do?
LOVE does not equal guns. We have been learning that the hard way. I do not think the Holy Spirit is directing Christians to protest gun rights. Let me remind you of the fruit of the Holy Spirit:
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

Blessings
 
Upvote 0

paul1149

that your faith might rest in the power of God
Site Supporter
Mar 22, 2011
8,460
5,268
NY
✟674,964.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

Sistrin

We are such stuff as dreams are made on...
Site Supporter
Jun 9, 2012
6,488
3,399
Location Location Location
✟197,980.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Celebrating guns honors a man who was shot and killed by a gun because he was black and Christian? That's a warped and demented (and wrong) way of thinking.


I know this is a complete waste of time, however except in the minds of the bitterly partisan yesterday's event wasn't a celebration of guns. It was a peaceful protest in support and defense of 2nd Amendment Rights, Rights which all Americans should be concerned with preserving.
 
Upvote 0

renniks

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2008
10,682
3,445
✟149,430.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Again you intentionally leave out the parts that are inconvenient to you. Christ rebuked Peter for defending them, Christ healed the ear of the Roman guard, Christ scolded Peter by telling him that "Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword."

Is Jesus a liar? Do you think He lied when he said that? Or do you want to die by a gun so that's why you live by one?

For someone who has supposedly read the Bible you sure are ignorant of the Bible.

Total pacifism is not taught in this Scripture. Indeed, Abraham was blessed by the Most High God (Gen 14:19) after engaging in a war against the unjust aggression of the kings who had captured his nephew Lot. In Luke 3:14, soldiers come to inquire of John the Baptist about what they should do. John never told them to leave the army. Likewise, Cornelius, in Acts 10, was a centurion. He was called a devout man (v. 2), and the Scriptures say that the Lord heard the prayers of Cornelius (v. 4). When Cornelius becomes a Christian, Peter does not tell him to leave the army. Also, in Luke 22:36–38, Christ says that the one who has no sword should sell his robe and buy one. The apostles responded saying that they had two swords. Jesus responded saying that “it was enough.” In other words, they did not need to get rid of their swords.

Peter’s use was aggressive, not purely defensive. His life was not being unjustly threatened. It was not clearly an act of self-defense (Ex. 22:2). Peter was acting impulsively, not like one with self control.
Jesus simply noted that those who live lives of aggression often die by the same means.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

renniks

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2008
10,682
3,445
✟149,430.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
who is Judging? Simply making observations with the Holy Spirit, I might add.

Different guns to hunt different animals? How about a semi-automatic that many love? I heard a preacher say at one time "if you think you need a semi-automatic to shoot a deer---maybe you need a different hobby"

I shoot an elk and I only need my trusty "30 ought 6" which I have had for 40 years.

Do you not realize that gun Manufacturers are partially supporting the NRA---"more guns in more hands", but then you cannot see that you are being manipulated.

What do you have against the NRA? Being manipulated because I support Gun rights? I don't have any idea what you are talking about. Nothing wrong with owning a semi auto and if you think they have no place in hunting, that's your OPINION. It doesn't mean no one has a need for one for self defense or wild hogs, etc.
Yeah, I've shot plenty or deer with my trusty 30.06, too, a round which was originally developed to kill people in battle.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

Hank77

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2015
26,396
15,479
✟1,106,853.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I know what he said, because I have read the whole Bible multiple times.
And you can see in the two passages the proper response to violent people. We should not be inciting violence, but we should be prepared to defend ourselves and our families if need be, which is why he told them to buy a sword for protection.
In the same way, Jesus said not to return insult for insult, which is what the turn the other cheek passage means. It's not about not defending oneself against physical violence. We should live at peace as much as it depends on us.
He also said that the reason Peter should not fight was because it was God's will that he be crucified.
So, the balance is: Don't go looking for a fight, but be prepared to what is needed.
Be the "strong man" who has to be bound before someone can break into your house.
People that try to make Jesus a wimp really don't "get" him at all.
I agree with what you have written.

I'd like to add that those who came against our Lord did die by the sword. First the Jews by the Romans and later the Romans by the Goths, etc.,
What He said was prophetic.
 
Upvote 0

Jamesone5

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2019
1,758
318
Basin
✟97,413.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What does pride of life have to do with it?
It's the Father's will that I should physically die? Sure, at some point we all die. But where does it say that it's God's will that I allow a criminal to kill innocent people?
We aren't talking about martyrdom here. We are talking about the right to protect yourself and others against evil people bent on destruction.
Luke 11:21
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe;
Luke 22:36
He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

Proverbs 25:26
Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain is a righteous man who gives way before the wicked.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Psalm 144:1
Of David. Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle;

Nehemiah 4:17-18
Who were building on the wall. Those who carried burdens were loaded in such a way that each labored on the work with one hand and held his weapon with the other. And each of the builders had his sword strapped at his side while he built. The man who sounded the trumpet was beside me.

Romans 13:4
For he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

Psalm 82:4
Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”

this statement caught my eye:

But where does it say that it's God's will that I allow a criminal to kill innocent people? ---rennicks

Are you God who can tell people what His Will should or should not be?

I haver personal experience on this matter as I lost a wife to a drunk driver and then a son to suicide.

Now I could have never grown in my Faith and Christ could never rescued me if I did not recognize His Will in allowing both deaths. To do it your way would be to continuing in blaming that driver in my wife accident and blaming myself for my son's suicide and to live continually with all that blame.

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

A pride of life is to always think it is not fair that someone caused their deaths.

I notice that pride of life is really a selfish thing as well. For those who support this Border Wall, their own pride of life is more imprtant than the lives of these immigrants.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,176
25,219
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,727,040.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
That has nothing to do with my "narrative". It's like you didn't even read the OP. Nice fail.

I read it. I know what you are implying. My posts shows that your narrative doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
 
Upvote 0

Ignatius the Kiwi

Dissident
Mar 2, 2013
7,056
3,767
✟290,234.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Armenian John I like partisanship as I'm a partisan myself, but aren't you being really unfair to the Christians who attended that event and the people there in general by accusing them of deliberately gathering to mock MLK? MLK day is a public holiday in the USA is not? Maybe it was just the most convenient day for people to gather without interfering with their work.

I would also suggest that we do not have to be pacifists to be Christians in the full and proper sense.
 
Upvote 0

Josheb

Christian
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
2,196
835
NoVa
✟166,326.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I did not answer you foolish questions because they have no relevance to me.
Ironic hypocrisy. Your posts not only have no relevance to me, they have no relevance to the op and when asked about your ost you refuse to discuss it.
But then you are indirectly giving me some kind of credence.
Never happened. That's all in your imagination.
You still would do best to ignore me as you are really digger yourself deeper in a hole.
When you get elected sheriff of CF then you can tell others what would and wouldn't be best but until then you're in evidence posting baselessly, avoiding direct op-relevqnt engagement, and attacking and blaming others for your own failings.
Observations, simply observations with the Holy Spirit, I might add.
They were neither simple nor "with the Holy Spirit." Here's how every student of God's word knows that to be the case.

Luke 6:45 tells us it is out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and the fingers type. Your original post was a reflection of your heart. This is further implicitly understood in the opening statement of that post, "It is how you want to look at it," and what followed was how you looked at it.

"Defend yourself against your false fears is one thing.A show of force to try to intimidate others is even worse"

Out of the abundance of your heart came "Defend yourself against your false fears is one thing. A show of force to try to intimidate others is even worse." That is how you look at the op's point.

Now you've been complaining about my questions being off-topic but what I asked was about the relevance of those two sentences to the op! I asked what false fears, what show of force, what intimidation and you've refused to answer those inquiries under the auspices you don't care about my questions, don't perceive them to be relevant, and would prefer to tell me my feelings are hurt and how I should post. The only one striving here is you, Jamestone5. Go through all your posts and note all the derisive comments you've made about other posters (I was not the only one). Log, not speck.

And we know the original post was not "with the Holy Spirit" because the Holy Spirit never contradicts the written word but the contents of your posts do! This disobedience to God's word is shown in the violation of Pr. 3:30. Somehow some form of self-defense, false fears, show of force, and intimidation is supposedly happening but there is no evidence any of those things was happening in Richmond yesterday. So you were given the opportunity to evidence that which came from the abundance of your heart.

You say you're not attacking anyone personally but I was told I'm not letting you freely share your feelings, my questions are foolish, my feelings are hurt, I'm trying to make it all about me. Pay attention, Jamesone5, because that is you making it all about you. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The Bible tells us to consider others more significant than ourselves, to let nothing unwholesome come out of our fingertips but that which is edifying, to be on good terms with others as far as it is within our ability to do so, and even when in dialogue with "outsiders" to the faith we are to speak with grace. That hasn't happened in this op. No one made you post the way you posted but you. Out of the abundance of the heart..... This is how every reader of your posts know they were not posted with the Spirit.

So no evidence, a refusal to return to the op, a refusal to take responsibility for one's own posts, a propensity to attack others instead of sticking to the posts, a blatant disregard for how scripture directs us to post and how to interact with others, and much, much more.

I just happen to be the one shining the light on it.

Here's something else scripture says. You're not going to like it but I want you to consider these two passages prayerfully as they apply to the posts in this op.

Galatians 5:19-21
"Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: ....enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions .....and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Titus 3:9-11 ESV
"But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

I don't know what your motive or intent in the original post was so I asked. I did my part. I asked again and again. I and every one here now knows.


Had the very valid op-relevant questions asked been answered OR I received something explanatory that was op-relevant we'd be having a much different conversation but that's not what happened. SO here's one more opportunity to explain your own op-reply.

Where was the show of force trying to intimidate others?

Would you be referring to the armed guards the Governor had added to protect legislators from those who'd been prevented from carrying their firearms?

Is it the Governor's false fears to which you are referring with that comment about false fears intimidation?

Was it those exercising the First amendment right of peaceful assembly address grievances against unconstitutional restrictions on the Second Amendment that will not in any way shape or form reduce the problem the legislators are purporting to solve to whom you were referring with that comment about false fears and intimidation?

Or would that be a reference to liberal "lawmakers" proposing ineffective laws who were engaged quite peacefully by the constituents they were elected to represent and serve?

Who - specifically - was saying "look at me and what my gun can do"?​

Here is the opportunity to explain your own post and discuss it. Maybe this time objectively and with evidence, as you see it. Try doing so without attacking another poster.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Yekcidmij

Presbyterian, Polymath
Feb 18, 2002
10,450
1,449
East Coast
✟232,056.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Again you intentionally leave out the parts that are inconvenient to you. Christ rebuked Peter for defending them, Christ healed the ear of the Roman guard, Christ scolded Peter by telling him that "Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword."

Is Jesus a liar? Do you think He lied when he said that? Or do you want to die by a gun so that's why you live by one?.

I don't think that verse is necessarily applicable here. It doesn't look to me like Jesus is saying anything beyond the fact that if the disciples drew their swords to fight, the Temple guard would kill them. This seems nothing more than an observational fact - the disciples were outmatched by the Temple guard and couldn't win in a fight. If they drew their swords, they would die by the sword as they were no match for the Temple guard. The Temple guard would have reciprocated violent resistance with their own violence.

What this has to do with not owning a gun, I'm not quite sure. Maybe if there's an applicability it would be that violent resistance against authorities can be expected to be met with violence from the authorities. For those in Richmond, had they been violent on Monday, they could have expected the authorities to be violent in return. And without a doubt, they would have been no match for the authorities. So maybe in that sense it applies.

But this doesn't say that they can't or shouldn't own a weapon. In Luke 22, when the disciples are arming themselves, Jesus doesn't completely prohibit them. In fact, he seems to be ok with them having two swords in the group.

There's a time and place for everything:

Ecc 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance.
3:5 A time to throw away stones, and a time to gather stones;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
3:6 A time to search, and a time to give something up as lost;
a time to keep, and a time to throw away;
3:7 A time to rip, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silent, and a time to speak.
3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

dzheremi

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian
Aug 27, 2014
13,548
13,704
✟428,962.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Is the problem the day or the fact that it involves guns?

I don't know that you can call people who have guns or like them or whatever anti-Christians or whatever the point is here. Don't the Armenians in Artsakh have guns? Isn't that how they guarantee their safety from the Azeris? I'm pretty happy that a Christian minority is not wiped out there (since the world recognizes Artsakh as territory of Azerbaijan), thanks to their willingness to fight for their freedom with guns and tanks and everything. So I have to imagine that it's the day, which...okay, yeah, but were they supposed to honor MLK at the gun show? I think we can all see what's wrong with that...
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,176
25,219
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,727,040.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
"Narrative" - clearly you just regurgitate right-wing talking points (like the rest of the right wing).
Or I’m giving my opinion based on what I see. I guess I could say that your OP regurgitated left-wing talking points. You know, like the rest of the left.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

TheLostCoin

A Lonesome Coin
Site Supporter
Sep 29, 2016
1,507
822
Ohio
✟234,420.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Is the problem the day or the fact that it involves guns?

I don't know that you can call people who have guns or like them or whatever anti-Christians or whatever the point is here. Don't the Armenians in Artsakh have guns? Isn't that how they guarantee their safety from the Azeris? I'm pretty happy that a Christian minority is not wiped out there (since the world recognizes Artsakh as territory of Azerbaijan), thanks to their willingness to fight for their freedom with guns and tanks and everything. So I have to imagine that it's the day, which...okay, yeah, but were they supposed to honor MLK at the gun show? I think we can all see what's wrong with that...

I don't think it's worth your time to argue against people who believe every instance of correlation has causation. You can't reason with people who avoid the use of reason.

View attachment 270666
 
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Site Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,046
7,673
.
Visit site
✟1,063,317.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
  • Like
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Josheb

Christian
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
2,196
835
NoVa
✟166,326.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I thought about this a bit and marching around carrying a gun is ridiculous. You say it is about defending your family--shouldn't you be home and doing that very thing?
Not if the risk to my family is in the legislative body of my representative government. In that case defending my family entails going to that local to assert my Consititutionally affirmed rights to gather peacefully, petition the government for redress of grievances, and protect my right to own and bear firearms.

That defense of my family occurred in Richmond, the capital city of my home, Virginia.

It is how you want to look at it and based on the posts in this op you don't want to look at it in any way other than the misbegotten idea defending our families occurs only at home. Supposedly this way of looking at it occurred as a consequence of you having thought about it a bit.

And, Jameson5, I completely agree with you: marching around with guns is ridiculous. That doesn't mean the rest of your op-reply has any validity or basis in reason, or as a whole-scripture response to the problem of living in a pluralistic society with a representative government seeking to solve a very real problem ineffectively by violating the majority's Constitutionally guaranteed rights on a day commemorating a peace-loving gun owner.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

dzheremi

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian
Aug 27, 2014
13,548
13,704
✟428,962.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
I don't think it's worth your time to argue against people who believe every instance of correlation has causation. You can't reason with people who avoid the use of reason.

I've interacted with the OP enough to know that he is rational. I'm just trying to understand where this is coming from and what I'm supposed to take from it.
 
Upvote 0

Josheb

Christian
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
2,196
835
NoVa
✟166,326.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
LOVE does not equal guns.
Pathetic red herring. No one here has even remotely implied, "Love equals guns."
We have been learning that the hard way.
Who is "we", Maria? Are you speaking for everyone? Are you peaking for all Christians? Are you speaking for all gun owners? Who - exactly and specifically - is it you think didn't understand but has now learned "love does not equal guns" the hard way?
I do not think the Holy Spirit is directing Christians to protest gun rights.
Hence my question.

Are you the arbiter of what the Holy Spirit does and does not inspire God's people to do?

If not then I encourage and exhort you to either 1) evidence how and why you believe the HS inspires what you assign it, or 2) refrain from assuming you know what the HS inspires.
Let me remind you of the fruit of the Holy Spirit:
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

Blessings
Yep. Marvelous.

The problem is that list is not exhaustive and elsewhere in the Bible we learn the Holy Spirit's fruit often involve dissent and even violence. We wrestle not with flesh and blood but with the (already defeated) powers and principalities that aren't flesh and blood. Jesus blessed the Centurion and at no time did he ever tell the Centurion to lay down his sword or stop being a soldier. Jesus healed the man's servant, declared him more faithful than anyone in all of Israel, and saw fit to gift him the Holy Spirit knowing he was a soldier who made his living violently serving Rome.

The twelve carried at least two swords with them. Certainly you are not going to suggest Jesus didn't know what love was or that he didn't know love does not equal swords or didn't know how to be both loving and appropriately protect himself with a sword. You do understand that the very same Jesus who did not come to judge the world will in fact return to violently judge the world?

You understand no one in Richmond acted unloving yesterday? (there was one single arrest for wearing a mask and refusing to remove it. Maybe we should require only one mask per month limit purchases and registering masks and restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens to own masks because we don't want to learn the hard way love is not masks).

I love people in very real, observable, measurable ways every single day and I manage to do so owning firearms for personal enjoyment, recreation, and self protection. The two are not mutually exclusive conditions. Arguing otherwise is a false dichotomy, and no amount of other fallacy, selective use of scripture, or misguided appeals to the Holy Spirit changes those facts.

Don't take my bluntness for rudeness or any other adverse intent. Are you the arbiter of the Holy Spirit? If not then upon what basis is it implied an exercise of the First and Second Amendments is necessarily not Spirit inspired?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

renniks

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2008
10,682
3,445
✟149,430.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Now I could have never grown in my Faith and Christ could never rescued me if I did not recognize His Will in allowing both deaths. To do it your way would be to continuing in blaming that driver in my wife accident and blaming myself for my son's suicide and to live continually with all that blame.
I'm sorry for your loss. When someone takes their life, we would do anything we could to go back and prevent it, if it were possible. If we are put in a situation where it's up to us to defend the defenseless, why would we not want to be prepared to do everything we can to defend them?
That's not playing God. Of course, we dont' have control of everything and can't know what God's will is in everything. We just have to do what is right with the things that are our responsibility.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Chesterton

Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding
Site Supporter
May 24, 2008
23,809
20,223
Flatland
✟865,752.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Because it helps me to understand your mindset - I have to remind myself in order to understand.
Well that makes sense that you have to remind yourself. I've heard that's one of the problems when telling lies - you have to remember them.
I know a lot of people like you here in the US.
I don't know anyone like you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.