False gospels do not require you to overcome sin

Kenny'sID

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Paul says that salvation (neither the obtaining or the keeping) ... is through any works which we may do ... but according to His mercy ...

Titus 3

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

OK, same scripture. The following tells us precisely who he will have mercy on:

John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Now, please answer this one simple question, can we make it to heaven if we don't do good?
 
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CharismaticLady

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It isn't recorded that the thief was baptized in water.

However, Christ had plans for him ...

My point is it doesn't mention baptism at all, so why do some assume that he was never baptized? Especially, since he had more faith than all the disciples put together!
 
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Kenny'sID

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Then you believe some one can be saved apart from the gospel? Will a atheist who does good works rise to live because of his works?

Of course not, why would you even ask me something so off the wall?

Now it's your turn, concerning the scripture I just posted, Can you make it to heaven without doing good?
 
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CharismaticLady

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That's actually more of confession.

Repentance is a turning to Christ ... to save us.

Yes, He is the only way, but He gives us His Spirit to keep us from willfully sinning. Don't you know that? Without the Holy Spirit we do not belong to Christ. So are you free from sin, or not?

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
 
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renniks

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Of course not, why would you even ask me something so off the wall?

Now it's your turn, concerning the scripture I just posted, Can you make it to heaven without doing good?
You are putting the cart before the horse. Which is why I asked the question. It's not off the wall at all. If your works save you in any way, then a non believer could be saved by works.

Why did the people in your quote do good? What is good?
There is no one good but God. Matthew 19:17

Everything that is not from faith is sin. Romans 14:23

I can't do good. Isaiah 64:6 My righteousness is like used tampons.
Only Jesus working in me to do good means anything. John 15:5
Romans 10:3 Trying to establish your own righteousness if futile.
Ephesians 2:9
…8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.…

So, we have established that salvation is a gift from God that we can't earn, but that we will do good works if we are in Christ. Now, they may look big and mighty to others, or small and pitiful, but that's not the point. The point is, they mean zilch as far as salvation, they are merely the fruit of being in Christ.

And if you do them to be seen as good, they are not good at all.
Jesus said in Matthew 6:1, "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven."
This is why there will be people who do tons of good works that are actually seen as evil by God. Because God will only reward you for doing what is done from the Spirit.
So, in short, your works have nothing to do with salvation, they are only an indication that God is working in you.
 
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A_Thinker

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Only if they endure to the end. If they return to sin, they are no longer righteous or holy.
Christ puts His seal of the Holy Spirit upon His own ... and He will finish the work which He has begun in them ...

Ephesians 1

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Philippians 1

3 I thank my God every time I remember you. 4 In every prayer for all of you, I always pray with joy, 5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 1

12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
 
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A_Thinker

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My point is it doesn't mention baptism at all, so why do some assume that he was never baptized? Especially, since he had more faith than all the disciples put together!
You can't make an argument that he was baptized from the fact that the scriptures don't mention it.

Also, there is no basis for believing he had more faith than Jesus' disciples. John was physically present at Christ's crucifixion, and all of the others ultimately gave their lives for Christ.
 
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A_Thinker

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OK, same scripture. The following tells us precisely who he will have mercy on:

John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Now, please answer this one simple question, can we make it to heaven if we don't do good?
Heaven is not a reward. Heaven is a gift, given to those willing to place their trust in Christ. Now, that is a good thing ... which pleases the Father, so, in that sense, every believer has done good.

There are rewards for Godly living and service, ... but heaven (i.e. relationship with God) is a gift.

1 Corinthians 3

11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
 
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A_Thinker

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Yes, He is the only way, but He gives us His Spirit to keep us from willfully sinning. Don't you know that? Without the Holy Spirit we do not belong to Christ. So are you free from sin, or not?
We are free from the condemnation of sin ... because Christ paid its cost. That's salvation.

We are being freed from the power of sin ... through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. That's sanctification.

We shall be freed from the very presence of sin. That's glorification.
 
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It is the heart that matters. Where sin resides in your heart.

None are completely without sin, even after finding Christ, our sins are revealed every day. A prideful word, a "natural" glance at a woman/man not your husband or wife.... even a prideful thought that ANY good be found in us whatsoever.

While one can not be wholely without sin and have a connection to the flesh, it does not excuse it. The heart of sinful man is told "Don't do that" and that man will look for ANY means to justify that sin. Just as Eve and Adam did after the original sin.

The heart if a righteous Christian, WANTS to be pure and IN that desire to be pure, will NOT justify that sin, but will be honest with his sins, ask forgiveness AND for the help to over come that sin.

IF for example the peoblem is an unclean tongue that spews obscenities left and right, step one is to ask for help in getting the tongue under control, once that is worked out in them, they need ask the Father to help them over come the desire that they still internally say those things, then they must ask in assistance from the Father to overcome the anger.

We can not offer perfection, none of us can. We CAN be honest with our Father and unlike Adam say to our Father, "Yes, I ate the apple. Forgive me, not because I am worthy, but because YOU are merciful and already paid the price, I don't want to be lead by the flesh that draws me to that tree, help me."

The thief on the cross, could not be baptized, he could not feed the hungry, he could not be perfect in deed. He could be honest and in his heart turn away from his mistakes.... and he was told, that he would see paradise. Yet, many will come to Jesus "on that day" and will proclaim to have done much in his name, only to be spit out.
 
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CharismaticLady

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We are free from the condemnation of sin ... because Christ paid its cost. That's salvation.

We are being freed from the power of sin ... through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. That's sanctification.

We shall be freed from the very presence of sin. That's glorification.

Sanctification is past tense as soon as we are cleansed of all sin. From that point on is glorification. We are becoming like Christ in this life, not just the next.
 
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A_Thinker

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John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on Him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed over from death unto life.

John 6:37 Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me, I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. 39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all ... and no one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

13 I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
 
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A_Thinker

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Sanctification is past tense as soon as we are cleansed of all sin. From that point on is glorification. We are becoming like Christ in this life, not just the next.
Becoming like Christ ... is sanctification. It is our current endeavor ... in Christ.

We will be glorified ... when we enter into the very presence of the Father.

Even Jesus, Himself, was not glorified in this mortal life ...

John 17:1 When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. 2 For You granted Him authority over all humanity, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. 3 Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Becoming like Christ ... is sanctification. It is our current endeavor ... in Christ.

We will be glorified ... when we enter into the very presence of the Father.

Even Jesus, Himself, was not glorified in this mortal life ...

John 17:1 When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. 2 For You granted Him authority over all humanity, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. 3 Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

This is why He left and sent back His Spirit to indwell us - glorification. When all our sin is taken away in justification, we are set apart unto God - sanctification. That is why it is in scripture as past tense.

Most teachers explain sanctification as a process during our lifetime to overcome sin. That is false. Jesus already took away our sin, and in Him there is no sin.
 
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