Speaking in tongues

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1 Corinthians 12:30 asks the question "Do all speak in tongues?" implying that this is not and should not be true. However, in Acts salvation was always followed by the newly saved being filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues (and the Bible contains the exhortation "Be filled with the Holy Spirit" in Ephesians 5:18). How do you reconcile these?
 

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1 Corinthians 12:30 asks the question "Do all speak in tongues?" implying that this is not and should not be true. However, in Acts salvation was always followed by the newly saved being filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues (and the Bible contains the exhortation "Be filled with the Holy Spirit" in Ephesians 5:18). How do you reconcile these?

Acts doesn't record everyone who was saved and does not record that those who were saved spoke in tongues. So we have to resolve that not everyone who is saved speaks in tongues.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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1 Corinthians 12:30 asks the question "Do all speak in tongues?" implying that this is not and should not be true. However, in Acts salvation was always followed by the newly saved being filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues (and the Bible contains the exhortation "Be filled with the Holy Spirit" in Ephesians 5:18). How do you reconcile these?

There are Christians who do not believe our Father still gives the gifts of the Spirit, tongues is one. There are Christians who believe certain gifts have "ceased" because some theologian said so.But, the Word of God says this.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.KJV
Romans 11:29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. NIV

So if God ever gave the gift of tongues to the Church, He has not taken that gift back. But it is because people are believing the gift has "ceased" that tongues are so controversial today.Not everyone who is filled with the indwelling Holy Spirit believe they CAN speak in tongues so they don't. I imagine there were these type in Paul's day.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Let's say that every believer spoke in tongues. IN the early church, that is.

The mistake is in insisting that if they did, every new convert today -- after the purpose for which tongues were given in antiquity has long been accomplished -- has to receive this gift as well.

It's not a badge of honor or a necessary part of becoming a disciple or a guarantor of salvation; it's a gift, something that was meant for the early church to succeed in its mission of bringing Christ to an unbelieving world.

Herein we have a word of judgement against anyone who dares to claim they have this gift.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Was not the purpose served when the Gospel of the Kingdom went out to the 12 tribes/nations of the house of Israel in each their own language?

What abut the sheep that were not of this fold?
 
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Monna

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"Do all speak in tongues?"

If you speak at all, it is definitely in a "tongue" - which is just another word for "language." In English we even have the expression "mother tongue" meaning your primary language, which you most likely got from your mother - or parents. Some of us were bilingual from the start, others have been fortunate enough to speak several tongues/languages from an early age.

For most of us though, the majority of foreign languages sound like gibberish - especially those that belong to a different linguistic "family." But in Acts, it is recorded that on the first Pentecost the many foriegn Jews who had come to Jerusalem heard the gospel "each in their own language." In other words (!) they did not hear gibberish. In the non-Christian world, people who speak several or even many languages are said to have "a gift for languages." And people who are very good a translating a speech or sermon very rapidly definitely have a "gift of interpretation." I sometimes am called on to do translation at church and can attest to the fact that although I can do it, I definitely don't feel I have a gift for it.

None of which diminishes the amazing thing that happens when someone can suddenly speak in a language they never had to study or spend years learning. And the amazement is no less for the (foreign language speaking) person who suddenly hears his/her own language coming from a person whom they are pretty sure has never been close to their own country let alone continent, nor ever studied their language.
 
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topher694

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Let's say that every believer spoke in tongues. IN the early church, that is.

The mistake is in insisting that if they did, every new convert today -- after the purpose for which tongues were given in antiquity has long been accomplished -- has to receive this gift as well.

It's not a badge of honor or a necessary part of becoming a disciple or a guarantor of salvation; it's a gift, something that was meant for the early church to succeed in its mission of bringing Christ to an unbelieving world.
Not allowed in this forum
 
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topher694

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1 Corinthians 12:30 asks the question "Do all speak in tongues?" implying that this is not and should not be true. However, in Acts salvation was always followed by the newly saved being filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues (and the Bible contains the exhortation "Be filled with the Holy Spirit" in Ephesians 5:18). How do you reconcile these?
The answer is in 1 Cor 12:10 - different kinds of tongues.
There is more than one manifestation of the gift, just like there is more than one type of prayer. 1 Cor 12:30 is talking about one specific kind, not all of them.
 
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Or put another way In the manifestation of the spiritual gifts, there's "another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues;..." I Cor 12:10.The divers of tongues is a message of tongues with interpretation (edifies the church and often given in the church I Cor 12:10 , I Cor 14:5 ) and prayer language (I Cor 14:14-15) has several purposes such as edifies the believer, magifies God (Acts 10)

Tongues are a sign - To unbelievers By believers (I Cor 14:22 and Mark 16:17) So that means any believer can speak in tongues which is given to them by the Holy Spirit.

"Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues." I Cor 14:39
 
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The answer is in 1 Cor 12:10 - different kinds of tongues.
There is more than one manifestation of the gift, just like there is more than one type of prayer. 1 Cor 12:30 is talking about one specific kind, not all of them.

TRUE!!

I've Spoken in "tongues" personally since 1973. However, I have NEVER been burdened to speak a "MESSAGE IN TONGUES" in a congregational setting. I HAVE been burdened to Interpret, and occasionally to speak Prophetically. So I would be one of those who DOES NOT SPEAK IN TONGUES in the "message category".
 
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My apologies for the previous posts; I mistook which forum the discussion here was taking place in. There is a parallel one currently underway in the Controversial Christian Theology forum.

Perhaps it would help if all discussions on this topic had to be put here, as is the case with some other topics. As it is, though, speaking in tongues can be discussed in several different forums and I have participated in some of them.
 
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The problem with all this is that our churches are nothing like the Early Church of the First Century. After the 5th or 6th Century, the church became formalized, ceremonial and ritualistic, and was taken over by bishops who took the pre-eminence and asserted their authority, putting ordinary believers into a state of audience passivity. Also because of the reforms that Constantine introduced into the church in the 4th Century, many pagan ceremonies and beliefs were mixed in. As the true believers in the gifts of the Spirit died out, the gifts declined, because those who replaced them did not want ordinary believers using them because that would undermine the authority of the bishops, and ultimately the Bishop of Rome who became the head rooster of the church pyramid. He took on the role as the vicar of Christ and his "revelations" were accepted as equal to Holy Scripture. So the Church remained like this for 1000 years until the reformation.

There were movements throughout that time that believed in the gifts of the Spirit, including prophecy and tongues, but they were brutally suppressed by the established church and their literature destroyed.

In these days, our churches have not yet fully recovered from many of the issues that remain with the established church. In most churches, there is still the one-man band at the front performing to a passive audience. This is happening even in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, where there is much hero worship of "big-name" ministries that advertise themselves as being closer to God than the common "herd" and are getting special revelation that the ordinary believer is not.

There are many who are trying to exercise the gifts of the Spirit, but largely are misusing them because they are doing them because it is "the doctrine of our church" rather than being genuinely moved by the Holy Spirit.

Also, because of the invasion of the occult and pagan mind-control into the Charismatic movement, many godly people, seeing the wacky and non-Scriptural stuff going on, prefer to keep right away from anything to do with tongues and prophecy, which is understandable.

1 Corinthians 14 is the only clear teaching on how to use the gift of tongues, privately and in public meetings. But there is no teaching on exactly how to receive these gifts, and there is certainly no instruction manual on how to use the other spiritual gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12.

So, it is quite true that the spiritual gifts declined markedly after the 4th Century when Constantine took control of the early church. Some groups, mainly Pentecostal, teach that the Holy Spirit has restored these gifts to the church, but I'm not sure whether the gifts have been fully restored, because it seems quite clearly, that the church itself has not been fully restored to what it was in the First Century when the gifts were more widely manifested, and the gifts of prophecy and tongues were not a sideline to normal worship and private prayer.

So, perhaps in order to be assured that those who claim to have the gift of prophecy and to be able to pray in tongues, need to seek God about how to restore where they fellowship to be more aligned to what the early church was; But I really think that this won't happen, because most people are resistant to change and would feel more comfortable in their churches they way they are.
 
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The problem with all this is that our churches are nothing like the Early Church of the First Century. After the 5th or 6th Century, the church became formalized, ceremonial and ritualistic, and was taken over by bishops who took the pre-eminence and asserted their authority, putting ordinary believers into a state of audience passivity. Also because of the reforms that Constantine introduced into the church in the 4th Century, many pagan ceremonies and beliefs were mixed in. As the true believers in the gifts of the Spirit died out, the gifts declined, because those who replaced them did not want ordinary believers using them because that would undermine the authority of the bishops, and ultimately the Bishop of Rome who became the head rooster of the church pyramid. He took on the role as the vicar of Christ and his "revelations" were accepted as equal to Holy Scripture. So the Church remained like this for 1000 years until the reformation.

There were movements throughout that time that believed in the gifts of the Spirit, including prophecy and tongues, but they were brutally suppressed by the established church and their literature destroyed.

In these days, our churches have not yet fully recovered from many of the issues that remain with the established church. In most churches, there is still the one-man band at the front performing to a passive audience. This is happening even in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, where there is much hero worship of "big-name" ministries that advertise themselves as being closer to God than the common "herd" and are getting special revelation that the ordinary believer is not.

There are many who are trying to exercise the gifts of the Spirit, but largely are misusing them because they are doing them because it is "the doctrine of our church" rather than being genuinely moved by the Holy Spirit.

Also, because of the invasion of the occult and pagan mind-control into the Charismatic movement, many godly people, seeing the wacky and non-Scriptural stuff going on, prefer to keep right away from anything to do with tongues and prophecy, which is understandable.

1 Corinthians 14 is the only clear teaching on how to use the gift of tongues, privately and in public meetings. But there is no teaching on exactly how to receive these gifts, and there is certainly no instruction manual on how to use the other spiritual gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12.

So, it is quite true that the spiritual gifts declined markedly after the 4th Century when Constantine took control of the early church. Some groups, mainly Pentecostal, teach that the Holy Spirit has restored these gifts to the church, but I'm not sure whether the gifts have been fully restored, because it seems quite clearly, that the church itself has not been fully restored to what it was in the First Century when the gifts were more widely manifested, and the gifts of prophecy and tongues were not a sideline to normal worship and private prayer.

So, perhaps in order to be assured that those who claim to have the gift of prophecy and to be able to pray in tongues, need to seek God about how to restore where they fellowship to be more aligned to what the early church was; But I really think that this won't happen, because most people are resistant to change and would feel more comfortable in their churches they way they are.
I see nothing of relevance here. Only inviting further confusion instead of trying to bring clarity.
 
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paul1149

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Some groups, mainly Pentecostal, teach that the Holy Spirit has restored these gifts to the church, but I'm not sure whether the gifts have been fully restored, because it seems quite clearly, that the church itself has not been fully restored to what it was in the First Century when the gifts were more widely manifested, and the gifts of prophecy and tongues were not a sideline to normal worship and private prayer.

So, perhaps in order to be assured that those who claim to have the gift of prophecy and to be able to pray in tongues, need to seek God about how to restore where they fellowship to be more aligned to what the early church was; But I really think that this won't happen, because most people are resistant to change and would feel more comfortable in their churches they way they are.
I expect the restoration of the spiritual gifts will precede the reformation of the structure of the ecclesia. The prophetic comes first, then the office. The existing church structure in general is highly resistant to change, and to a large extent will have to come to the end of itself before it opens up. When you're looking at the devastation and ashes of man's wisdom, God's way of doing things begins to look more attractive. It's very hard for people to give up position and power. But when the pews start emptying, there isn't much choice.

in Acts salvation was always followed by the newly saved being filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues
I think that is in error. Many time tongues is emphasized, but not all. Just one example - the 3000 that came in on Pentecost, no mention is made of them speaking in tongues. Undoubtedly, many did. But it is not mentioned.
 
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I see nothing of relevance here. Only inviting further confusion instead of trying to bring clarity.
What I am saying is that the general Christian church has not fully shaken off the yoke that it was put on it after the 6th Century. To have the genuine gifts of the Spirit manifesting there is a need for the church that the Holy Spirit first set up on the day of Pentecost.
 
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timothyu

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To have the genuine gifts of the Spirit manifesting there is a need for the church that the Holy Spirit first set up on the day of Pentecost.
Their sole interest was the gospel of the Kingdom. That indeed would be a great step back in the right direction.
 
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topher694

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What I am saying is that the general Christian church has not fully shaken off the yoke that it was put on it after the 6th Century. To have the genuine gifts of the Spirit manifesting there is a need for the church that the Holy Spirit first set up on the day of Pentecost.
A. The church you are referring to exists, granted it is not common these days.
B. My point was that such talk doesn't seem to answer or help the OP, but that ship has probably already sailed.
 
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