Having communion while being a very liberal Christian

Carl Emerson said:

You are welcome to your opinion. As the bible is understood by the assistance of the Holy Spirit, you being an atheist are hardly qualified to make correct interpretations.

Click to expand...

Well, I am well aware that the Holy Spirit seems to help Christians interpret the Bible to mean anything other than what it actually says.

So, in your case, a Bible verse that teaches you to give up ALL possessions actually means... don't give up anything.

Do not resist an evil doer actually means... "stand your ground and use lethal force if necessary to defend yourself and loved ones".

I figured it out.

BigV said:

Well, I am well aware that the Holy Spirit seems to help Christians interpret the Bible to mean anything other than what it actually says.

So, in your case, a Bible verse that teaches you to give up ALL possessions actually means... don't give up anything.

Do not resist an evil doer actually means... "stand your ground and use lethal force if necessary to defend yourself and loved ones".

I figured it out.

Click to expand...

The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth.

You know nothing about 'my case'

Enjoy your day...

JohnClay,

I appreciate your honesty. Thanks for being so open and forthright about this with us. Many people don't ever even consider whether they believe in Jesus or not - they just go to church because they always did and their parents did...

It is very much a reality that there is "Cultural" Christianity and then there is "Belief in Christ" Christianity. These are very different things. We are born into a culture that shares traditions and ways of life... In America and most of The West - that's widely viewed as a "Christian culture" as opposed to say a Middle Eastern Islamic culture or Navajo Indian culture.... As you might expect - Christian holidays and traditions are deeply ingrained in our culture and traditions even for people who don't specifically profess any belief....

But that's not the actual "Belief in Jesus" Christianity.. for which actually believing in Jesus as God IS central. Other people here have given good explanations here about that - so I won't repeat them.

My opinion is that the best thing to do is to put your questions about the divinity of Jesus into God's hands and then table the issue for now. Pray to God that he gives you clarity. It could take 1 day, it could take 10 years.

God will provide you with the answers you need in a way that is clear and that you can understand.

Carl Emerson said:

You know nothing about 'my case'

Click to expand...

I know you have a bank account, at least. And likely some possessions.

BigV said:

I think every Christian is a liberal. Nobody follows Jesus' teachings to a 'T', even those who claim they do.

Luke 14:31 “Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Won’t he first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32 If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

There are plenty of 'non liberal' Christians who take communion and yet do not give up anything they have.

The trick is to learn to explain away whatever it is you are doing.

Click to expand...

We're so glad you're here to remind us of our shortcomings. It's beneficial to all of us.

The desciples had possessions - so did Paul.

You seem to misunderstand what the meaning of 'give up' is in the verse you quoted.

BigV said:

33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

Click to expand...

Give up literally means to give upwards.

In other words releasing all you have to God for His purpose not your own.

Carl Emerson said:

Give up literally means to give upwards.

In other words releasing all you have to God for His purpose not your own.

Click to expand...

Nope, this is just typical Christian justification. Luke 12:33 says:

Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.

What did Jesus say, in Luke's Gospel, concerning the rich?

Luke 6:24“But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort.

How many possessions can you keep, if you literally follow the following:

Luke 6:30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.

Is there a faster road to bankruptcy than following the above command? Of course, if you follow Luke 14:33, you will not have anything left to give, unless you rely on other 'followers' who still have some possessions left and who will be providing to you based on your request.

Matthew 19: 16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven

Now, why would it be hard for the rich to enter heaven? According to Paul, and most Christians, it's not any harder for the rich to enter than it is for the poor. But according to Jesus, it's difficult for the rich because they need to sell their wealth.

Note that the command to sell your possessions in Matthew is almost identical to Luke's 12:33. Rich man went away sad because he did not want to give up his possessions. Too bad there were no Christian apologists back then to set everyone straight.

2PhiloVoid said:

We're so glad you're here to remind us of our shortcomings. It's beneficial to all of us.

Click to expand...

I try to do my best.

OK... BigV demands that real Christians should have no possessions.

No house, no car, no extra clothes, no bank account, nothing for a rainy day... Give it all away...

What do readers say?

Does scripture demand this?

Carl Emerson said:

What do readers say?

Click to expand...

Why care about readers? It's what the Bible says, no? The Bible says in the last days people will follow teachings that they want to hear. Of course, I would not want to hear about giving up all possessions if I were a Christian.

There have been some movements of Christians (the Franciscans come to mind) who renounced all possessions. In general, though, these words of Jesus have been taken to mean, not that every Christian must renounce all possessions, but that every Christian must be prepared to renounce any possession should their circumstances and the mission and call of God require it of them.

nvm

nvm

nvm

Carl Emerson said:

OK... BigV demands that real Christians should have no possessions.

No house, no car, no extra clothes, no bank account, nothing for a rainy day... Give it all away...

What do readers say?

Does scripture demand this?

Click to expand...

Readers say that "Christians should have absolutely no possessions" is a ridiculous position based on a misinterpretation of scripture.

For example - when Jesus said "Foxes have their dens but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head" - it was a shocking insult against the behavior of those who "Believed" - that they had personally received giant benefit at Jesus hand (healings, Miracles, Teachings, and even feedings) - yet they happily took all this and then left without considering that God had sent this man to them and that they had a responsibility to look after him. And that God expected them to understand this and make provision for him.

Sort of along the lines of Luke 7 - Jesus is invited to dinner at the house of a Pharisee and the man doesn't even extend common courtesy or hospitality to him. The Pharisee doesn't welcome
Jesus into his house as if he is an Important man of standing.. He doesn't offer Jesus any common courtesy or refreshment to clean up after a day of being thronged by crowds of people in a dirty, dusty place. And then the Pharisee has the audacity to complain about someone who is doing all she can to treat him like the King he was...

But that's sort of who we are... We just don't get it. We can't see past the end of our own nose that the person we worship is our king, not our slave.

sea5763 said:

Matthew 19:25-26 then continues with the disciples asking who then can be saved and Jesus says with man it is impossible but with God all things are possible.

Click to expand...

yes, but what does ‘with God all things are possible’ mean? Does Jesus mean that the rich don’t have to give up anything, in contradiction to his prior statements or that GOD can help the rich give up all possessions?

my position is that Jesus’ commands make no sense and that even Christians are mostly ignoring them.

JohnC2 said:

Readers say that "Christians should have absolutely no possessions" is a ridiculous position based on a misinterpretation of scripture.

Click to expand...

nope, not based on misinterpretation but based on taking Jesus’ command literally.

Jesus also said that you should give to everyone who asks of you and if anyone took something from you, you should not demand it back.
Luke 14:33 literally says you can’t be Jesus’ follower unless you give up all possessions.

either words have meaning or they don’t.

Does one verse interpret the bible or the bible interpret one verse?

Luke 10:4
I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. 4Carry no purse or bag or sandals. Do not greet anyone along the road.

Luke 22:36
“Now, however,” He told them, “the one with a purse should take it, and likewise a bag; and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.

As I said it is all about giving up attachment to possessions and obeying Him in this regard depending on His will.