False gospels do not require you to overcome sin

Maria Billingsley said:

So when we do sin, what do we do? Nothing?

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Do you want to sin? You are taking it for granted. That is denying the power of the Holy Spirit.

First let's see if we are on the same page about sin. There are two kinds. Are you talking about willful sinning - knowing it is wrong and doing it anyway, such as not honoring your parents, stealing, lying, murder, coveting the riches of this world and your neighbor? Or are you talking about the unintentional sins of imperfection?

Maria Billingsley said:

I humbly ask, are you sinless?

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That's the conclusion of our discussion. We aren't there yet. Answer my other question first.

Maria Billingsley said:

I humbly ask, are you sinless?

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I'll check for your answers later.

CharismaticLady said:

Do you want to sin? You are taking it for granted. That is denying the power of the Holy Spirit.

First let's see if we are on the same page about sin. There are two kinds. Are you talking about willful sinning - knowing it is wrong and doing it anyway, such as not honoring your parents, stealing, lying, murder, coveting the riches of this world and your neighbor? Or are you talking about the unintentional sins of imperfection?

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I believe all sin is intentional and willful. I don't see a distinction between willful and unwillful. Christians are not ignorant and if we think we can hide behind ignorance we are kidding ourselves.

"The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent" Acts:17:30

"As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance."
1 Peter 1:14

That being said, repetitive sin with no repentance is the result of "quenching" the work of the Holy Spirit who brings us into repentance. This is the important work of the Holy Spirit. And no, I do not want to sin.

Dave L said:

It's more about holiness people treating the gospel as law and legalistically repenting in the flesh, like in the OT. But that law could not save.

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Please show us where it was said anywhere on all of CF the law could save?

A_Thinker said:

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

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That addressed the people who thought the law saved because for a long time it did. It's old news and no one thinks the law does save today. Yes some insist on creating confusion, and though they cannot prove anyone here says we are saved by the law, they love to claim needing to be obedient is indication we teach the law saves.

If anyone disagrees, please prove what I just said you could not prove.

A_Thinker said:

Like Paul's gospel ... ???

Galatians 3

1 Oh foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

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5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

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26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

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Again, old news addressing a people who had good reason to be confused, as the new covenant abolished being saved by the law, but not the law itself. There is always legitimate confusion when changing a contract. What is not legit is to use that to try to confuse obedience with trying to reach salvation by obeying the law.

topher694 said:

Obsession is unhealthy. There is healing in Jesus.

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As is teaching a false gospel, and yes there is healing in Christ.

Dave L said:

Have you ever thought about the debates on the forums? Either one or both do not understand scripture. If both understood there would be no debate.

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Some choose not to understand. We put the truth right in front of them often, and when pressed for answers to questions that would prove them wrong, they evade them, and the accompanying scripture, and even go so far as to attack the messenger, because they were backed into a corner. Plus numerous other actions that help them to avoid the truth. Watch the threads closely and see for yourselves

There is no misunderstanding here, there are only people who want what they want, and not what God wants.

SeventyOne said:

I really do hope that someday you do get the Spirit and understand you could never pull off this false gospel you advocate.

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Details please, let's break it down, what exactly is false about it?

SeventyOne said:

You keep outlining a highway to hell, and worse of all, you bastardize scripture over and over to do it.

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Details needed, how does it bastardize scripture, or would you rather make empty claims with no proof whatsoever? If not, show proof of your charge, or maybe not make the charges to begin with?

Maria Billingsley said:

Why is overcoming your sin a false gospel?

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Because they would rather not have to overcome sin.

SeventyOne said:

None of it is anything he teaches in his false gospel threads.

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Yet, once again, no details, just claims. How does anyone take that as anything more than what it is, an empty claim with no details to prove your point.

Prove it's a False Gospel.

Maria Billingsley said:

I believe all sin is intentional and willful. I don't see a distinction between willful and unwillful.

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But that is part of the false teaching, and that is why the OP says it is so common.

Leviticus 5:15 shows us the other type of sin that is not willful, called trespasses. It is the only type in the Lord's Prayer. Willful sins are forbidden as Hebrews 10:26-31 aptly shows.

Will check again later. Sorry, but I've got a lot to do today, but I do want to continue this conversation. This isn't our first one, but hopefully we can have a break-through today.

CharismaticLady said:

But that is part of the false teaching, and that is why the OP says it is so common.

Leviticus 5:15 shows us the other type of sin that is not willful, called trespasses. It is the only type in the Lord's Prayer. Willful sins are forbidden as Hebrews 10:26-31 aptly shows.

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Ok, I did not say I disagreed with the OP.

CharismaticLady said:

A born again heart doesn't need repentance, they've already done that while in the flesh. It is while in the flesh that you realize that it is a struggle to be righteous in your own strength. That is the person in Romans 7 BEFORE being born again of the Spirit. And Peter says to repent, and then you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. What you are saying is the Spirit makes you repent. No the Spirit keeps you from having to repent any longer, as you walk in the Spirit.

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Cornelius certainly repented before receiving the Holy Spirit.

SeventyOne said:

There's nothing wrong with overcoming sin, but it is not the gospel.

None of it is anything he teaches in his false gospel threads. Abstaining from sin is a good thing, but it will not save anyone initially, or maintain their salvation over time. His teaching adds to the gospel, making it false.

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Is not abstaining from sin a 'good thing'?
Doesn't sin manifest that you are NOT reborn of God's seed which prevents sin? (1 John 3:9)
Grape vines cannot bring forth figs, and God's seed cannot bring forth wickedness.

Maria Billingsley said:

If I may interject, I am still in the flesh. I have been regenerated and continually sanctified by the Holy Spirit as long as I walk with Him and not quench Him. Repentance is part of the process. Though sinlessness is not possible, I do see sins falling away because I have turned away from them through the act of repentance by the power of the Holy Spirit. Can't imagine not needing repentance, what does one do when they sin? Keep doing it?
Thanks for engaging!

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The only reason you think sinlessness/perfect obedience to God is impossible is because you are still in the flesh.
But what does scripture say?..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
So how do we crucify the flesh?..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Rom 6:3-7)

It was satan who told Eve that it was ok to eat from the tree of knowledge. He said to her surely you will not die. I see the same coming from some Christian groups who advocate a belief only salvation. Jesus said in Matthew 7 He who hears my words and ACTS on them is like the wise man who built his house on the rock. When the storms come it will not collapse.

BCsenior said:

Sorry, but God's seed in us simply makes it possible to NOT sin.
BACs do NOT have to sin anymore ... because they have a new nature!
(Ref. several of Paul's statements ... we've had threads here about it.)

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Personally I disagree because I’ve never actually seen this first hand. Every Christian I know says they still sin. I don’t believe perfection can be achieved in this life.

BCsenior said:

Sorry, but God's seed in us simply makes it possible to NOT sin.
BACs do NOT have to sin anymore ... because they have a new nature!
(Ref. several of Paul's statements ... we've had threads here about it.)

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OK then...
The seed of the fig "makes it possible" to bear more figs.
But doesn't that also make it impossible for it to bring forth grapes?
If the seed of God is in us we "cannot" bring forth the fruit of the devil.

BNR32FAN said:

Personally I disagree because I’ve never actually seen this first hand. Every Christian I know says they still sin. I don’t believe perfection can be achieved in this life.

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Then...almost all things are possible with God?

BCsenior said:

Many things do NOT have free will to oppose and stop God's will from being accomplished.
How many times do I have to remind y'all that God didn't create no robots here, hear?

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You have taken my reply to another poster out of its context.