The Holy Spirit dwells only in obedient believers

Jamdoc

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setst RE: I don't believe the Spirit, who is received by faith, uses anyone; rather, the Spirit enters the believer to be their guide and helper and to give them life, but only as they live by that Spirit in them by faith.

The New Life is only possible as the Christian continues to live by the Spirit they received by faith. Only a remnant of those who by faith receive the Spirit will continue to remain faithful to the end of their lives. I say this in consideration of Jesus' warning to the Churches in Revelation. I notice that only some will actually overcome and remain faithful to the end.

Romans 8:12-13 (NIV)
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 6:7-9 (NIV)
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows.
8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest IF we do not give up.

To possess life in Christ we must daily live and walk by the Spirit we receive.
I think you're looking at it as that saved by grace people think they can be willfully disobedient that faith is a "free pass" to sin as much as we want, which isn't true, and while we believe works salvation people think they can live an absolutely perfect life never sinning even once, which in that case, diminishes the need for salvation, and we don't think it's possible for flesh to actually do that.
 
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I think you're looking at it as that saved by grace people think they can be willfully disobedient that faith is a "free pass" to sin as much as we want, which isn't true, and while we believe works salvation people think they can live an absolutely perfect life never sinning even once, which in that case, diminishes the need for salvation, and we don't think it's possible for flesh to actually do that.

You fail to understand that not all sins mentioned in the Bible lead to death. Take 1 John 5:16-17 as an example.
 
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I think you're looking at it as that saved by grace people think they can be willfully disobedient that faith is a "free pass" to sin as much as we want, which isn't true, and while we believe works salvation people think they can live an absolutely perfect life never sinning even once, which in that case, diminishes the need for salvation, and we don't think it's possible for flesh to actually do that.

It is a free pass to sin. For do you believe you lose salvation when you sin? Do you believe the prodigal son was saved while he was spending his inheritance on prostitutes? Do you believe king David was saved during the moment in time when he committed adultery and murder?
 
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setst777

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Sets:

You told me before we are not obligated to keep the Moral Law (Note: I referred to the Moral Law as: Do not murder, do not covet, do not steal, etc.) and yet you quote Romans 8:13 that says that it live according to the flesh, you will die and you quote Galatians 6:7-9 about sowing to please the flesh, they will reap destruction. Galatians 6:8-9 is in context to Galatians 5:19-21 that condemns not keeping the Moral Law. It says those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

setst RE: Greetings

I quoted the Passages teaching that we are no longer under the written law - moral or ceremonial. The whole law was nailed to the cross. We now live in a new way by the Spirit and not by the written code.

When you deny self and then walk by the Spirit, all those sins that Paul mentions, are not part of your life anymore.

If you desire to go back to following all kinds of laws and regulations, then this is your choice, but that is not what the Scriptures teach to receive life.

I am not talking about the Law of Moses. The 613 laws of Moses is no more contractually speaking. I am talking about New Covenant Laws here (New Testament commands). There are approximately 400 or so by my personal study. Oh and yes. Keeping certain commands is a part of salvation.

setst RE: The few commands Christ gave us to follow are a very light burden in comparison to following the moral written code or the ceremonial law.

Christ taught us by illustrations, parables, and teaching how we are to die to the carnal self and then to live and walk in the Spirit by this faith - a life of Love and service to others. Living by faith in Jesus, therefore, must lead to obedience to follow His command to deny self and to live by His Spirit - a life of love. All the Scriptures testify to this. It is the Spirit that gives life, not following all kinds of laws and regulations.

I believe by faith in God’s grace is how we are initially and ultimately saved. I believe by faith in God’s grace is how we are able to then obey and are able to keep the commandments of Jesus and His followers.

setst RE: That is true in that, as we live by faith, the outcome of that faith leads to obedience to Christ Jesus and His Spirit in us.

Romans 13:8-10 (WEB) Bolding mine.
8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love doesn’t harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 8 (WEB)
3 For what the law couldn’t do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 5 (WEB)
1 Stand firm therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and don’t be entangled again with a yoke of bondage
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision amounts to anything, nor uncircumcision, but what counts is faith working through love…
14 For the Whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Blessings
 
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setst777

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I think you're looking at it as that saved by grace people think they can be willfully disobedient that faith is a "free pass" to sin as much as we want, which isn't true, and while we believe works salvation people think they can live an absolutely perfect life never sinning even once, which in that case, diminishes the need for salvation, and we don't think it's possible for flesh to actually do that.

setst RE:
I agree that the "free pass" mentality is destroying the body of Christ.

I agree that we should not sin, but if we do sin in weakness and repent, then God will forgive us. We learn and grow as Christians, and we will fall into some sin at points in our lives, but a genuine faith in Jesus will not allow for deliberately and continually living in any sin. But if a Christian should fall into sin, and if he should be brought back to repentance and faith again, then that is a good thing. Our faith will be tested to determine how genuine it is, and also to refine that faith.

1 Peter 1 (NIV)
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade.

This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who, through faith, are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.

8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

Be Holy
13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written:
Be holy, because I am holy.”

17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear. 18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.

20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”

And this is the word that was preached to you.

Blessings
 
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setst777

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It is a free pass to sin. For do you believe you lose salvation when you sin? Do you believe the prodigal son was saved while he was spending his inheritance on prostitutes? Do you believe king David was saved during the moment in time when he committed adultery and murder?

setst RE: The Scriptures clearly teach, illustrate, and give examples, of losing salvation.

The prodigal son became lost and dead, but he repented and was found and made alive again, for the Father accepted his repentance and forgave him.

Luke 15:32 (NIV)
32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

King David remained saved, but only because of his deep anguish for his sin and a heart of true repentance after being confronted of his sin by the prophet. Nevertheless, God did not completely let him off the hook, as David was disciplined.
 
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fwGod

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I for one am joyful for God's grace that abounds where there is sin. We want to please God, so our spirit is willing, but our flesh is weak. So rather than leave us when we sin, He stays with us to forgive us when we repent, and He is all the while working in us to will and work of His good pleasure. Because He is steadfast in His love toward us, even as He wants us to be steadfast in our love to Him.
 
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Jamdoc

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You fail to understand that not all sins mentioned in the Bible lead to death. Take 1 John 5:16-17 as an example.
Well unless you can tell me exactly which sins those are, cause I'm not finding in scripture any list of what the catholics call "venial" sins.
Broader context of that book is the balancing act to explain that we're saved by Grace, not by works or obedience to the law, but that because we love God, we should still obey His laws. Not because we'll be condemned if we don't, but because we love Him. I don't understand how this doesn't make sense. When you sin, even something like a lustful thought because you see a beautiful woman somewhere, the Holy Spirit convicts you, you feel remorse, and guilt, and correct yourself. Not because you suddenly think "oh I'm going to be damned for that" but rather because you disappointed your Father, who you love, and why would you WANT to do that?". The talk about sins that don't lead to death is trying to balance out that while we should obey, because we love Him and His rules are just, not to take that doctrine to an extreme of "you have to live a perfect life". 1 John 1:8 is pretty clear on that. Christians are not immune to sin, Christians do still sin. We don't revel in it, we feel guilty about it when we do it, and we turn away from it, we don't seek it.
Aside from obeying out of love and out of wanting to please our Father rather than disappoint Him in disobedience, while John 5:24 I want to point out the SHALL NOT, as in future tense, so faith is enough to not go to hell when you die, however. Hebrews 12:5-8 shows that when you ARE saved, and you sin, you backslide, you become the prodigal son, what happens to him? His whole life falls apart. He hits rock bottom, comes to his senses, and goes back to his father, who forgives him. That's always a favorite story of salvation isn't it? That even as a Christian, who became a child of God, who backslides into sin, God will scourge him, chasten him, he'll hit rock bottom, and then realize what a fool he's been and return to his Father, who forgives him.
But you look at the unsaved, and they sin, and life goes great for them, they're enjoying their season aren't they? That's where you really worry about dying in sin, that's what I take from those verses of Hebrews 12. That okay, you messed up, you sinned, and God has made your entire life fall apart as a result, but on the bright side, at least God is doing it here on earth rather than letting you walk straight into the lake of fire with no guard rails. Those who aren't saved, they party on right into the flames.
So is grace license to sin? Only if you want to have a miserable life on earth and don't care about disappointing what's most important to you that you love. Lot was a backslider and he was pulled from the destruction of Sodom. His whole life fell apart, but I believe we'll still meet him in heaven, and in the new Earth. Just at the Lamb's wedding feast, maybe be sensitive about asking him to pass the salt okay? He got his stripes already.
Do I believe I'm still saved when I sin? Yes. Do I believe that there's still going to be consequence in this life for my sins? Absolutely, that's what my first person experience would tell me, and what scripture tells me. I've been busted for things that all of my friends did and they didn't get caught I did. So do you think I want to earn more of those situations for myself?
 
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corinth77777

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DO WE WORK FOR OUR SALVATION?

This discussion is to help unravel the ideals we have concerning salvation and even grace So we will continue on with Ephesians 2: 8,9 There are so many translation now that I find it important to go to the greek and Hebrew and where an "inductive study" can be done @classic.net.bible.org

Where does this Ideal of "we do not work [do anything] for our salvation" come from? It comes from a misunderstanding of the passage of Ephesians 2:8 on the terms grace, saved, and works.

Where grace is made on the individual to be passive When actually grace is active. And where salvation is then restated coming from the misunderstanding of passage as a noun rather than a verb.

Like the statement: "we don't do anything for our salvation" Here many may take salvation to mean deliverence from Hell when one dies. But that is a byproduct or result of Kingdom inclusion now on earth but not limited to as we live out Christ's life but/and/or intending to act as what we believe is true.

So it would be important to know first what scripture says we are saved from, and why we were saved from that which we were saved.

But before that let's look at Ephesian 2: 8, 9 translations: NETBible: Ephesians 2:8 After you hit this choose verse 9 too

Meditate on all translations and I will return Note: As stated by Dallas Willard, "grace is not opposed to effort but earning"
 
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setst RE: Greetings

I quoted the Passages teaching that we are no longer under the written law - moral or ceremonial. The whole law was nailed to the cross. We now live in a new way by the Spirit and not by the written code.

I don’t look to the 613 laws of Moses so as to obey God as a part of my faith. I believe when the Scriptures refer to the handwriting of ordinances (or the written code) (Colossians 2:14) or the oldness of the letter (Romans 7:6) these things are in reference to the Torah and not the New Testament Scriptures (that where still being formed) when Paul was writing such statements. For the NT Scriptures were not complete yet; How can he condemn that which he was creating?

You said:
When you deny self and then walk by the Spirit, all those sins that Paul mentions, are not part of your life anymore.

The Holy Spirit inspired NT Scripture and these NT Scriptures have many commands within them. As I said to you before that you appear to not want to see, there are approximately 400 some commands in the New Testament. There are 9 fruits of the Spirit mentioned in Galatians 5:22-23.

Fruit #1. - Love.
(Jesus commands us to love God, and our neighbor - Mark 12:29-30).
Fruit #2. - Joy.
(Jesus commands us to rejoice & leap for joy when persecuted - Luke 6:22-23).
(Jesus commands us "Be of good cheer" - John 16:33).
Fruit #3. - Peace.
(Author of Hebrews commands “Follow peace with all men" - Hebrews 12:14).
Fruit #4. - Longsuffering.
(Paul commands "Walk worthy of the vocation by which you are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the binding power of peace." - Ephesians 4:1-3).
Fruit #5. - Gentleness.
(Paul commands "Remind others so as not to fight with others, but that they should be gentle, showing all manner of meekness unto all men" - Titus 3:2).
Fruit #6. - Goodness.
(Paul commands us "Cleave to that which is good" - Romans 12:9).
Fruit #7. - Faithfulness.
(Paul commands us "We should be living to the praise of his glory, like when we first trusted in Christ" - Ephesians 1:12).
Fruit #8. - Meekness (Humility).
(Paul commands us "Flee being rich and the love of money; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness" - 1 Timothy 6:9-11).
Fruit #9. - Temperance (Self restraint).
(Peter commands us "Give diligence so as to make your calling and election sure; Give all diligence: So as to add to your faith: “virtue”, and to virtue: “knowledge”, and to knowledge: “temperance [self restraint]”, and to temperance [self restraint]: “patience”, and to patience: “godliness”, and to godliness: “brotherly kindness”, and to brotherly kindness: “love” [charity]" - 2 Peter 1:10, 2 Peter 1:5-7).

Romans 8:13 says we are to put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit. So the Spirit helps us to overcome sin. Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).

You said:
If you desire to go back to following all kinds of laws and regulations, then this is your choice, but that is not what the Scriptures teach to receive life.

Romans 8:2 says there is a Law called "The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus."
Keeping this Law makes us free from the Old Law (i.e. the Law of sin and death).
Romans 8:1 defines for us what this NT Law is. In the KJV, it says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

The Bible teaches that obedience to God's commands is tied to eternal life from Matthew to Revelation (See Matthew 19:17-19) (Luke 10:25-28) (1 John 1:7) (1 John 3:23) (Hebrews 5:9) (Revelation 22:14).

You said:
setst RE: The few commands Christ gave us to follow are a very light burden in comparison to following the moral written code or the ceremonial law.

Again, I don't follow the Old Testament ceremonial laws like the Sabbath, or circumcision, or the dietary laws, etc. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Paul essentially says that by loving your neighbor, you will fulfill the Moral Law like: Do not murder, do not covet, do not steal, etc. (See: Romans 13:8-10). Besides, this Law is instinctual. The Gentiles were able to keep the Moral Law without having the written Law of Moses (See: Romans 2:14).

As for the words of Jesus that say, "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Matthew 11:28-30):

Well, it is still a yoke, and it is still a burden. If this was not the case, then He would not have told us to deny ourselves, pick up our cross, and to follow Him.

Christ taught us by illustrations, parables, and teaching how we are to die to the carnal self and then to live and walk in the Spirit by this faith - a life of Love and service to others. Living by faith in Jesus, therefore, must lead to obedience to follow His command to deny self and to live by His Spirit - a life of love. All the Scriptures testify to this. It is the Spirit that gives life, not following all kinds of laws and regulations.

Again, the Spirit wrote NT Scripture. How can the Spirit be against what the Spirit inspired men to write? It makes no sense. So if there are commands in the New Testament, then they come from the writing of the Spirit and thus, we have to obey them for we are New Covenant believers.

You said:
setst RE: That is true in that, as we live by faith, the outcome of that faith leads to obedience to Christ Jesus and His Spirit in us.

I said this for clarification of what I believe because I was not sure you understood what my view of Soteriology involves.

You said:
Romans 13:8-10 (WEB) Bolding mine.
8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love doesn’t harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.

The part that you underlined here is in reference to the Old Law and not the New Law. There was no completed New Testament yet; For they were still forming it.
When Paul spoke of the commands, his listeners would have understood it to be in reference to the Torah because of the Jews during that time period.

Romans 8 (WEB)
3 For what the law couldn’t do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Again. Which Law is being referring to here whereby Jesus condemned sin in the flesh? This would be the OT Law or the Torah. Verse 4 in the KJV says "the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us." That is more accurate to say this because it is referring to how we will fulfill the righteous aspect or part of the Old Law (i.e. the Moral Law - Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh.

You said:
Galatians 5 (WEB)
1 Stand firm therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and don’t be entangled again with a yoke of bondage
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision amounts to anything, nor uncircumcision, but what counts is faith working through love…
14 For the Whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Again, what Law is Paul referring to here?
The Law of Moses. Circumcision was a part of the Law of Moses and not the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. So the whole Law that is being fulfilled in verses 14 is in reference to the Law of Moses.

You said:
Blessings

Thank you. May the Lord's blessings be upon you, as well.
 
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setst RE: The Scriptures clearly teach, illustrate, and give examples, of losing salvation.

The prodigal son became lost and dead, but he repented and was found and made alive again, for the Father accepted his repentance and forgave him.

Luke 15:32 (NIV)
32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

We agree on this.

You said:
King David remained saved, but only because of his deep anguish for his sin and a heart of true repentance after being confronted of his sin by the prophet. Nevertheless, God did not completely let him off the hook, as David was disciplined.

No. David was not saved while he committed his sins. John 3:15 says no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. Proverbs 6:32 says, "But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul." David only received forgiveness of these sins when he confessed of them in Psalms 51.
 
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Well unless you can tell me exactly which sins those are, cause I'm not finding in scripture any list of what the catholics call "venial" sins.
Broader context of that book is the balancing act to explain that we're saved by Grace, not by works or obedience to the law, but that because we love God, we should still obey His laws. Not because we'll be condemned if we don't, but because we love Him. I don't understand how this doesn't make sense. When you sin, even something like a lustful thought because you see a beautiful woman somewhere, the Holy Spirit convicts you, you feel remorse, and guilt, and correct yourself. Not because you suddenly think "oh I'm going to be damned for that" but rather because you disappointed your Father, who you love, and why would you WANT to do that?". The talk about sins that don't lead to death is trying to balance out that while we should obey, because we love Him and His rules are just, not to take that doctrine to an extreme of "you have to live a perfect life". 1 John 1:8 is pretty clear on that. Christians are not immune to sin, Christians do still sin. We don't revel in it, we feel guilty about it when we do it, and we turn away from it, we don't seek it.
Aside from obeying out of love and out of wanting to please our Father rather than disappoint Him in disobedience, while John 5:24 I want to point out the SHALL NOT, as in future tense, so faith is enough to not go to hell when you die, however. Hebrews 12:5-8 shows that when you ARE saved, and you sin, you backslide, you become the prodigal son, what happens to him? His whole life falls apart. He hits rock bottom, comes to his senses, and goes back to his father, who forgives him. That's always a favorite story of salvation isn't it? That even as a Christian, who became a child of God, who backslides into sin, God will scourge him, chasten him, he'll hit rock bottom, and then realize what a fool he's been and return to his Father, who forgives him.
But you look at the unsaved, and they sin, and life goes great for them, they're enjoying their season aren't they? That's where you really worry about dying in sin, that's what I take from those verses of Hebrews 12. That okay, you messed up, you sinned, and God has made your entire life fall apart as a result, but on the bright side, at least God is doing it here on earth rather than letting you walk straight into the lake of fire with no guard rails. Those who aren't saved, they party on right into the flames.
So is grace license to sin? Only if you want to have a miserable life on earth and don't care about disappointing what's most important to you that you love. Lot was a backslider and he was pulled from the destruction of Sodom. His whole life fell apart, but I believe we'll still meet him in heaven, and in the new Earth. Just at the Lamb's wedding feast, maybe be sensitive about asking him to pass the salt okay? He got his stripes already.
Do I believe I'm still saved when I sin? Yes. Do I believe that there's still going to be consequence in this life for my sins? Absolutely, that's what my first person experience would tell me, and what scripture tells me. I've been busted for things that all of my friends did and they didn't get caught I did. So do you think I want to earn more of those situations for myself?

Not all sin is the same. There are grievous sins that lead unto spiritual death, and there are minor infractions or hidden faults that do not lead to spiritual death.

Grievous sin is another name for a "sin unto death"
(Note: To check out the reference to the "sin unto death," see: 1 John 5:16).
(i.e. death = spiritual death or the second death) (Note: The second death is destruction in the Lake of Fire - Revelation 21:8).

"And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;" (Genesis 18:20).​

Examples of Grievous Sin:

#1. Not loving God, and not loving your neighbor (For loving God and loving your neighbor is a part of eternal life; See: Luke 10:25-28 cf. Matthew 19:17-19; Not loving Jesus (God) means one is accursed, see: 1 Corinthians 16:22; As for not loving your neighbor, see the Parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:29-37), and then see number #5 below).

#2. Looking at a woman in lust = danger of being cast bodily into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30).

#3. Not forgiving = not being forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15).

#4. One can be condemned by their words (Matthew 12:37).

#5. Not helping the poor or the unfortunate = Going away into everlasting punishment (or everlasting fire) (Matthew 25:31-46).

#6. No man who puts his hand to the plow (i.e. one who spreads the gospel and teachings to lead men of God into holiness by His Word) and looks back (turns away from doing so) is fit for the Kingdom of God (Luke 9:62) (Note: See the KJV rendering on this verse).

#7. 1 John 3:15 says, "Whoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

#8. Galatians 5:19-21 says, "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Meaning, those who do these kinds of sins will not inherit (enter) God's kingdom (i.e. they will not be saved). For entering God's kingdom is associated with salvation in Matthew 25:34 (Note: Paul is mentioning the violation of the Moral Law. The Moral Law is the same equivalent as loving your neighbor; See Romans 13:8-10).

#9. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8).

Minor infractions or faults of character is another name for a "sin not unto death" (i.e. not unto death = not unto spiritual death or the second death) (Note: While the "sin not unto death" mentioned in 1 John 5:17 is in context to confessed sin in John's epistle (See: 1 John 1:9), it can be extended loosely to refer to the kind of sins that do not lead to spiritual death by it's very name).

"Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults."
(Psalms 19:12).​

Examples of Sins That Do Not Lead Unto Spiritual Death:

#1. 1 John 5:17 mentions the "sin not unto death."
In context to 1 John 5: This would be talking about confessed grievous sin that one is striving to overcome with the Lord's help (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (Romans 13:14). In 1 John 5, the brethren are praying for this believer to have victory (life) over their sin as this believer confesses their sin.

#2. Psalms 19:12 says, "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults." I believe these would be faults of character or minor errors that a person might make with people. Example: A person may not be a great listener, and they do not allow others to speak like they should. By not listening to others may come off a little like they do not care (even though they care in their own way or a different way). Paul wanted to go to Jerusalem. The Spirit warned Paul not to go. He was still determined to go because he loved His fellow Jews and wanted them to know the love of Jesus. The Spirit told the brethren that Paul will be imprisoned by his going to Jerusalem. The brethren warned Paul not to go. They were in tears and loved him and begged him not to go. But Paul did not listen. He would not hear them. He did not want to hear it. Fault of character. Hidden fault. Minor error of his character. It is not something that condemned him (See Acts of the Apostles 21, and read this article here by Ray Stedman; Note: There is even a better write up than this one by Bible commentator James Boice here; Please keep in mind I do not share their views on Soteriology, though; I merely agree with their view on what happened with Paul in Acts of the Apostles 21).

#3. The Command to Be Baptized.
Paul says Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). If it was essential to salvation, then why would Paul say something like this? In 1 Peter 3:21: Peter says baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh. If you were to turn to 2 Corinthians 7:1, you would see that it uses similar wording ("filthiness of the flesh") that is clearly in reference to sin. So Peter is saying that baptism is not for the putting away of "sin" [i.e. filth of the flesh]. In other words, baptism is not a command that if disobeyed, leads to spiritual death.

#4. Other Commands in the New Testament that do not seem like a major violation of loving God and loving your neighbor that have no death penalties attached to them. One example would be the command to Rejoice when men persecute you or falsely accuse you of evil in Matthew 5:11-12.

Real world examples: Going 5 miles per hour over the speed limit in area that is not life threatening to others. Not taking out the trash yesterday when it was a little stinky. These minor transgressions would obviously not send a Christian to hell.

But we as Christians strive to obey and do good in all things in the Lord. We strive to keep His commandments. For it is written,

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.' (1 John 5:3).​


Side Note:

Please understand that it is not possible for a person to obey God's commands without them first being saved by Jesus Christ and His grace (i.e. by seeking forgiveness of their sin with Him, and believing in His death, and resurrection on their behalf). For Christians are initially and ultimately saved by Jesus Christ.
 
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Well unless you can tell me exactly which sins those are, cause I'm not finding in scripture any list of what the catholics call "venial" sins.
Broader context of that book is the balancing act to explain that we're saved by Grace, not by works or obedience to the law, but that because we love God, we should still obey His laws. Not because we'll be condemned if we don't, but because we love Him. I don't understand how this doesn't make sense. When you sin, even something like a lustful thought because you see a beautiful woman somewhere, the Holy Spirit convicts you, you feel remorse, and guilt, and correct yourself. Not because you suddenly think "oh I'm going to be damned for that" but rather because you disappointed your Father, who you love, and why would you WANT to do that?". The talk about sins that don't lead to death is trying to balance out that while we should obey, because we love Him and His rules are just, not to take that doctrine to an extreme of "you have to live a perfect life". 1 John 1:8 is pretty clear on that. Christians are not immune to sin, Christians do still sin. We don't revel in it, we feel guilty about it when we do it, and we turn away from it, we don't seek it.
Aside from obeying out of love and out of wanting to please our Father rather than disappoint Him in disobedience, while John 5:24 I want to point out the SHALL NOT, as in future tense, so faith is enough to not go to hell when you die, however. Hebrews 12:5-8 shows that when you ARE saved, and you sin, you backslide, you become the prodigal son, what happens to him? His whole life falls apart. He hits rock bottom, comes to his senses, and goes back to his father, who forgives him. That's always a favorite story of salvation isn't it? That even as a Christian, who became a child of God, who backslides into sin, God will scourge him, chasten him, he'll hit rock bottom, and then realize what a fool he's been and return to his Father, who forgives him.
But you look at the unsaved, and they sin, and life goes great for them, they're enjoying their season aren't they? That's where you really worry about dying in sin, that's what I take from those verses of Hebrews 12. That okay, you messed up, you sinned, and God has made your entire life fall apart as a result, but on the bright side, at least God is doing it here on earth rather than letting you walk straight into the lake of fire with no guard rails. Those who aren't saved, they party on right into the flames.
So is grace license to sin? Only if you want to have a miserable life on earth and don't care about disappointing what's most important to you that you love. Lot was a backslider and he was pulled from the destruction of Sodom. His whole life fell apart, but I believe we'll still meet him in heaven, and in the new Earth. Just at the Lamb's wedding feast, maybe be sensitive about asking him to pass the salt okay? He got his stripes already.
Do I believe I'm still saved when I sin? Yes. Do I believe that there's still going to be consequence in this life for my sins? Absolutely, that's what my first person experience would tell me, and what scripture tells me. I've been busted for things that all of my friends did and they didn't get caught I did. So do you think I want to earn more of those situations for myself?

As for 1 John 1:8:

What is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8 in regards to time; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their future sins are paid for by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

You can say that John is talking about a break of fellowship by one's sins and not a loss of salvation, but that would not be consistent with Scripture. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.
 
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Well unless you can tell me exactly which sins those are, cause I'm not finding in scripture any list of what the catholics call "venial" sins.
Broader context of that book is the balancing act to explain that we're saved by Grace, not by works or obedience to the law, but that because we love God, we should still obey His laws. Not because we'll be condemned if we don't, but because we love Him. I don't understand how this doesn't make sense. When you sin, even something like a lustful thought because you see a beautiful woman somewhere, the Holy Spirit convicts you, you feel remorse, and guilt, and correct yourself. Not because you suddenly think "oh I'm going to be damned for that" but rather because you disappointed your Father, who you love, and why would you WANT to do that?". The talk about sins that don't lead to death is trying to balance out that while we should obey, because we love Him and His rules are just, not to take that doctrine to an extreme of "you have to live a perfect life". 1 John 1:8 is pretty clear on that. Christians are not immune to sin, Christians do still sin. We don't revel in it, we feel guilty about it when we do it, and we turn away from it, we don't seek it.
Aside from obeying out of love and out of wanting to please our Father rather than disappoint Him in disobedience, while John 5:24 I want to point out the SHALL NOT, as in future tense, so faith is enough to not go to hell when you die, however. Hebrews 12:5-8 shows that when you ARE saved, and you sin, you backslide, you become the prodigal son, what happens to him? His whole life falls apart. He hits rock bottom, comes to his senses, and goes back to his father, who forgives him. That's always a favorite story of salvation isn't it? That even as a Christian, who became a child of God, who backslides into sin, God will scourge him, chasten him, he'll hit rock bottom, and then realize what a fool he's been and return to his Father, who forgives him.
But you look at the unsaved, and they sin, and life goes great for them, they're enjoying their season aren't they? That's where you really worry about dying in sin, that's what I take from those verses of Hebrews 12. That okay, you messed up, you sinned, and God has made your entire life fall apart as a result, but on the bright side, at least God is doing it here on earth rather than letting you walk straight into the lake of fire with no guard rails. Those who aren't saved, they party on right into the flames.
So is grace license to sin? Only if you want to have a miserable life on earth and don't care about disappointing what's most important to you that you love. Lot was a backslider and he was pulled from the destruction of Sodom. His whole life fell apart, but I believe we'll still meet him in heaven, and in the new Earth. Just at the Lamb's wedding feast, maybe be sensitive about asking him to pass the salt okay? He got his stripes already.
Do I believe I'm still saved when I sin? Yes. Do I believe that there's still going to be consequence in this life for my sins? Absolutely, that's what my first person experience would tell me, and what scripture tells me. I've been busted for things that all of my friends did and they didn't get caught I did. So do you think I want to earn more of those situations for myself?

As for John 5:24:

Okay. It also says that you have to hear the words of Jesus (i.e. obey His words) in addition to believing in Him as a part of not perishing and in crossing over from death unto life. This is confirmed even by Acts of the Apostles 3:23 that says that whoever does not hear that prophet (JESUS) they will be destroyed. Matthew 7:26-27 says that the person who does not do what Jesus says, they are like a fool who built their house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house.
 
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Well unless you can tell me exactly which sins those are, cause I'm not finding in scripture any list of what the catholics call "venial" sins.
Broader context of that book is the balancing act to explain that we're saved by Grace, not by works or obedience to the law, but that because we love God, we should still obey His laws. Not because we'll be condemned if we don't, but because we love Him. I don't understand how this doesn't make sense. When you sin, even something like a lustful thought because you see a beautiful woman somewhere, the Holy Spirit convicts you, you feel remorse, and guilt, and correct yourself. Not because you suddenly think "oh I'm going to be damned for that" but rather because you disappointed your Father, who you love, and why would you WANT to do that?". The talk about sins that don't lead to death is trying to balance out that while we should obey, because we love Him and His rules are just, not to take that doctrine to an extreme of "you have to live a perfect life". 1 John 1:8 is pretty clear on that. Christians are not immune to sin, Christians do still sin. We don't revel in it, we feel guilty about it when we do it, and we turn away from it, we don't seek it.
Aside from obeying out of love and out of wanting to please our Father rather than disappoint Him in disobedience, while John 5:24 I want to point out the SHALL NOT, as in future tense, so faith is enough to not go to hell when you die, however. Hebrews 12:5-8 shows that when you ARE saved, and you sin, you backslide, you become the prodigal son, what happens to him? His whole life falls apart. He hits rock bottom, comes to his senses, and goes back to his father, who forgives him. That's always a favorite story of salvation isn't it? That even as a Christian, who became a child of God, who backslides into sin, God will scourge him, chasten him, he'll hit rock bottom, and then realize what a fool he's been and return to his Father, who forgives him.
But you look at the unsaved, and they sin, and life goes great for them, they're enjoying their season aren't they? That's where you really worry about dying in sin, that's what I take from those verses of Hebrews 12. That okay, you messed up, you sinned, and God has made your entire life fall apart as a result, but on the bright side, at least God is doing it here on earth rather than letting you walk straight into the lake of fire with no guard rails. Those who aren't saved, they party on right into the flames.
So is grace license to sin? Only if you want to have a miserable life on earth and don't care about disappointing what's most important to you that you love. Lot was a backslider and he was pulled from the destruction of Sodom. His whole life fell apart, but I believe we'll still meet him in heaven, and in the new Earth. Just at the Lamb's wedding feast, maybe be sensitive about asking him to pass the salt okay? He got his stripes already.
Do I believe I'm still saved when I sin? Yes. Do I believe that there's still going to be consequence in this life for my sins? Absolutely, that's what my first person experience would tell me, and what scripture tells me. I've been busted for things that all of my friends did and they didn't get caught I did. So do you think I want to earn more of those situations for myself?

As for Hebrews 12:5-8:

The purpose of chastening is correction. A master might yell at their dog or smack it on the nose lightly if he did something wrong so as to correct the behavior of the animal. The same is true with chastening for sons of God. A son of God does righteousness according to 1 John 2:29, and 1 John 3:10. They may fall into sin, and God knows that they will seek forgiveness with Him if they are chastened or corrected. But if they seek to justify sin with the thinking they are saved, then there is no point in correction. Most "Secure in their Sin Salvationists" do not believe they can overcome grievous sin in this life. So what would be the point of correction then? It would be like a dog owner who kicks his dog across the room like a football for pooping on his nice white carpets (When the dog owner knows the poor animal has an uncontrollable pooping problem because it is sick). In other words, true correction or punishment by God is done so as to make a change in the believer's life.
 
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Of course, this is not my idea … it is what John 14 says!

John 14 (NLT):
15 If you love me, obey my commandments.

Jesus commanded us to love as he loves us.
But we cannot do that; we cannot have, and show, agape love to others unless we have first received it from God. Romans 5:5 says that God pours his love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit.
So it is through the Spirit that we receive God's love in our hearts, and having God's love in our hearts will enable us to keep the Lord's command to love one another.

You seem to be saying that if we keep this command and love one another with divine love, THEN we will receive the Spirit - Scripture says that the Spirit gives us what we need to help us keep his command.
It all comes from God. Nowhere does God say "try really hard in your own strength and by your own efforts, then I will help/bless/save you". If we could help and save ourselves, and love others as he loves us, with our own human love; we wouldn't need him.
 
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People see what they want to see.
But God's Word will endure forever.
The important thing is having Jesus abide in you.
If there is no Jesus, there is no salvation (1 John 5:12).
The way we can have an assurance in knowing Jesus is if we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3).
 
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