The Holy Spirit dwells only in obedient believers

Bible Highlighter said:

Many do not accept the truth of what 1 John 1:9 says plainly. It says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. By the way you have spoken: It makes it appear like you believe you are forgiven even if you don't confess. Yet, 1 John 1:9 says otherwise. I trust Scripture and not the popular "Secure in One's Grievous Sin Salvationism" that is promoted in the majority of churches today. They preach a double message. One the one hand they say that they are not saved by what they do, and yet they contradict themselves and say they live in certain horrible grievous sins. Thus, as a result, no clear standard of morality is established. Granted, no man can save themselves without God. The Lord saves both in the Justification Process, and in the Sanctification Process (under our free will cooperation). God does the good work through the believer. So all good done in our life is on the account of God and all praise, and glory goes to Him.

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We are already forgiven. "In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace..." Ephesians 1:7. However, we need to be cleansed from the effects of sin, which is a defiled conscience "... how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works" Hebrews 9:14.

If we do not confess our sin, we are defiled and we lose fellowship with God. We also have the encouragement of "but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." 1 John 1:7

Walking in the light includes seeing when we have sinned and confessing it.

It may seem a trivial difference, but for some it is important. Some self righteous "holiness" preachers will tell people that if they sin as a Christian they are bound for hell if they don't grovel and beg for forgiveness. Lord Jesus said from the Cross, "It is finished!" Indeed it is. The Lord secured the perfect salvation, perfect because it does not depend on us at all. Our part is to believe, accept and live in the light of this great salvation.

Bible Highlighter said:

It is a standard trademark that one is usually a Calvinist if they reject Free Will or human cooperation with God involving salvation.

Calvinists believe in TULIP (or the five points of Calvinism).

1. Total Depravity.
2. Unconditional Election.
3. Limited Atonement.
4. Irresistible Grace.
5. Perseverance of the Saints (or OSAS or Eternal Security or Free Grace).

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Only $23.00. Comes in five other colors. Calvinist Santa Shirt

genez said:

Only $23.00. Comes in five other colors. Calvinist Santa Shirt

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No. Men can seek forgiveness with God and they can at least meet the bare minimum in living holy lives as a part salvation (Although Scripture does imply we can go beyond this; See Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, etc.).

BCsenior said:

"Filled" with the Spirit in Acts always refers to the baptism with the Holy Spirit
where the person is filled to overflowing!
No one who just receives the Spirit "inside" to be born-again ...
has this "filled to overflowing" experience,
which actually is confirmed or manifested by tongues!

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Cool, it appears clear that we are on the same page. I agree with you and your understanding of the terms used in Acts. The Johannine language appears to be slightly different. I was operating under the assumption that the εν (in) and παρα (with) language roughly to parallels this, however not exactly.

The Spirit was only "dwelling alongside" (παρα υμιν μενει) as opposed to sealing/sanctifying (εν υμιν) or filling language (πίμπλημι) we see in Acts.

Aussie Pete said:

We are already forgiven. "In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace..." Ephesians 1:7. However, we need to be cleansed from the effects of sin, which is a defiled conscience "... how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works" Hebrews 9:14.

If we do not confess our sin, we are defiled and we lose fellowship with God. We also have the encouragement of "but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." 1 John 1:7

Walking in the light includes seeing when we have sinned and confessing it.

It may seem a trivial difference, but for some it is important. Some self righteous "holiness" preachers will tell people that if they sin as a Christian they are bound for hell if they don't grovel and beg for forgiveness. Lord Jesus said from the Cross, "It is finished!" Indeed it is. The Lord secured the perfect salvation, perfect because it does not depend on us at all. Our part is to believe, accept and live in the light of this great salvation.

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You quote 1 John 1:7 but you are not believing what it says plainly. You have to walk in the light in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you from all sin.

Do you know what walking in the light is?
It is loving your brother according to 1 John 2:9-11. So you have to love your brother in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you of all your sin. It’s the condition of the verse.
Need confirmation?
1 John 3:10 essentially says that he that loves not his brother is not of God. Can somebody not be of God and be saved? Surely not.

Bible Highlighter said:

You quote 1 John 1:7 but you are not believing what it says plainly. You have to walk in the light in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you from all sin.

Do you know what walking in the light is?
It is loving your brother according to 1 John 2:9-11. So you have to love your brother in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you of all your sin. It’s the condition of the verse.
Need confirmation?
1 John 3:10 essentially says that he that loves not his brother is not of God. Can somebody not be of God and be saved? Surely not.

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Sure, it is true that we need to love one another. It is the evidence that we have passed from death to life. I agree with you to that extent. However, walking in the light is not just loving one another. Light=truth. It is walking in the truth of what the Lord Jesus has done for us and who we are in Him. No one knows all the truth. We do need to walk in the light that we personally have received - revelation truth. If , for example, we've learned the truth about giving, we need to be obedient in that area. If we have yet to get a revelation on that subject, God does not hold us responsible for our shortcomings. It's all too easy to look down on people who are less knowledgeable than we are. That is harmful to our own lives. I know someone who is totally backslidden. He delighted to write people off who were struggling. He's being judged as he judged others.

Aussie Pete said:

Sure, it is true that we need to love one another. It is the evidence that we have passed from death to life. I agree with you to that extent. However, walking in the light is not just loving one another. Light=truth. It is walking in the truth of what the Lord Jesus has done for us and who we are in Him. No one knows all the truth. We do need to walk in the light that we personally have received - revelation truth. If , for example, we've learned the truth about giving, we need to be obedient in that area. If we have yet to get a revelation on that subject, God does not hold us responsible for our shortcomings. It's all too easy to look down on people who are less knowledgeable than we are. That is harmful to our own lives. I know someone who is totally backslidden. He delighted to write people off who were struggling. He's being judged as he judged others.

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You shouldn’t agree with me on loving your brother if nothing you do relates to salvation. The point I want to make is that loving your brother involves works of love toward them. Whether you believe works is a result of having been saved or not is irrelevant. Even if you believe that way, this would still be saying that one needs to meet some sort of standard of morality in order to be a part of the saved people. Thus, works play a part in the salvation process. If not, then a person can hate their brother or not love them and still be saved.

setst777 said:

setst RE: If one claims that the Spirit will never leave them, and if such person deliberately keeps on sinning, then such sins are against the Spirit living in them - an unforgivable sin for insulting the Spirit of Grace. If that be the case, then such person will be under greater condemnation then an unbeliever - someone who never received the Spirit.

Hebrews 10:26-30 (NIV)
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished

• who has trampled the Son of God underfoot,
• who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them,
• and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge His people.”

Notice that the object of more severe punishment were saved because they were "sanctified by the blood of the covenant" and they insulted the Spirit of grace. And, the Lord will judge HIS people (vs 30)

Romans 8:12-13 (NIV)
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 6:7-9 (NIV)
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest IF we do not give up.

Romans 11:19-22 (NIV) You (talking to each individual Christian) will say then, “Branches (plural - not nations of Israel but actual people) were broken off so that I (talking to individuals) could be grafted in.”
20 Granted. But they (plural for Jews) were broken off because of unbelief, and you (individual Christians) stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches (plural for Jews), he will not spare you (the Christian he is talking to) either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

• Branches are individuals - Jew or Gentile Christians.
• Gentiles are included by faith.

Romans 11:25... Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles (Plural individual believers) has come in.

No Gentile nations here. And their is only one Israel, not many Israels.

• Gentiles are grafted in by faith,
• but must remain faithful
• or be cut off for not remaining faithful.
• That is why we must be afraid

Blessings

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I'm not sure I'm understanding what your point is. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with the OP? If they have the Spirit but continue in disobedience, then how is the Spirit in them in the first disobedience?

Meanwhile, I want to remark that Hebrews 6 has a nice little phrase, "It is impossible", describing a scenario that sounds like Hebrews 10. Whether the Greek grammatically demands that it refers to the subsequent "for them to be returned to repentance" or whether it means that the scenario is impossible, I don't know --I have heard it both ways.

Meanwhile also, I find that being faithful, though indeed my responsibility, is beyond my ability to do apart from the Spirit in me. It seems to me that those who think they have been faithful by virtue of their integrity are fooling themselves. "Apart from me you can do nothing." I go further, to insist that it is God who is keeping me faithful, and though my will is so involved that I am overwhelmed with sorrow at my unfaithfulness, it is God who does the work. My decision and further pursuit of Christ, my work, is a result, not a cause.

Justin BT said:

The OP is not clear on this, it’s not clear if he means the Spirit completely leaves and comes back (under the framework of a “single blessing/baptism” type of system) or if the OP means there is a two phase (sealing/sanctifying followed by a leading/blessing/equipping/gifting function) system.

If the “second blessing” situation is assumed then It’s not too odd to believe the spirit might avoids or not based on a persons willingness to submit. I must say I’ve always wondered about this myself.

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One thing I have noticed myself lately, specially after having several discussions involving John 3, that the Spirit does as it does, quite independently of our predictions or systems. Yet I note, never breaking any of the promises of God. Our structures try to identify how things work, but like how we try to put a handle on the Father and Son, we just never quite get it.

On the day of judgement, all sins will be exposed, including those of works salvation preachers who claim to live without sin and be totally obedient to God's commandments. It is going to humble a lot of people, because they have been proud in their professed obedience to the law. Should we try to obey the law out of love? Absolutely. But we're going to come short. Everyone's going to come short, even with the Holy Spirit we're going to come short. We make mistakes because we're not perfect, and the Holy Spirit just convicts us when we make them, but it does not mean that we'll never make them once the Holy Spirit dwells in us. You show me a man who is born again who claims to never sin and I'll show you a prideful liar.

Ephesians 2:8-9

We all believe in God’s grace. The difference between the Conditional Salvationist (who believes grievous sin can separate a believer from God) and the Belief Alone Salvationist is a matter of the kind fruit (or work) one is saved in.

For we are all going to do works.
Either one’s works are going to be good or evil. So...

In possessing God’s saving grace, is one saved with the kind of works that reflect obedience, holy living, and in having good works?

Or...

In possessing God’s saving grace, is one saved by the kind of works that reflect sin disobedience, not living holy, and in being fruitless and or being an reprobate unto every good work?

Which one do you think God would prefer seeing He is holy?

Jamdoc said:

On the day of judgement, all sins will be exposed, including those of works salvation preachers who claim to live without sin and be totally obedient to God's commandments. It is going to humble a lot of people, because they have been proud in their professed obedience to the law. Should we try to obey the law out of love? Absolutely. But we're going to come short. Everyone's going to come short, even with the Holy Spirit we're going to come short. We make mistakes because we're not perfect, and the Holy Spirit just convicts us when we make them, but it does not mean that we'll never make them once the Holy Spirit dwells in us. You show me a man who is born again who claims to never sin and I'll show you a prideful liar.

Ephesians 2:8-9

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Look at all the verses on the judgement. Many of them say we will be judged by our works. None of them say a believer is saved by having a belief alone on Jesus (while they ignored their sin and or refused to do good).

This makes sense because James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

Jamdoc said:

On the day of judgement, all sins will be exposed, including those of works salvation preachers who claim to live without sin and be totally obedient to God's commandments. It is going to humble a lot of people, because they have been proud in their professed obedience to the law. Should we try to obey the law out of love? Absolutely. But we're going to come short. Everyone's going to come short, even with the Holy Spirit we're going to come short. We make mistakes because we're not perfect, and the Holy Spirit just convicts us when we make them, but it does not mean that we'll never make them once the Holy Spirit dwells in us. You show me a man who is born again who claims to never sin and I'll show you a prideful liar.

Ephesians 2:8-9

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In Matthew 13:41-42, Christ will send forth his angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend (i.e. those who make others to sin) and those who work iniquity (sin or lawlessness) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (the Lake of Fire).
This means those believers who justified sin in this life are going to be cast into the Lake of Fire by Christ’s angels at the Judgement. For these are the ones who will be taken out of Christ’s kingdom.

Mark Quayle said:

I'm not sure I'm understanding what your point is. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with the OP?

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setst RE: I am not disagreeing or agreeing with the OP; rather, I am pointing out that Christians, who have the Spirit in them, if they deliberately keep sinning, are insulting the Spirit of God. When this happens, and if they do not repent, or God does not allow them to repent because of their obstinate disregard for His Spirit, then such persons are judged more severely then even non-believers because of the advantage the Christian received by possessing the Spirit, and because of the knowledge they had of the Word of God. I quoted several Passages to show this is the case.

Mark Quayle said:

If they have the Spirit but continue in disobedience, then how is the Spirit in them in the first disobedience?

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setst RE: Consider the Passages I already quoted in my Post that you answered, and consider that almost every Church that the Apostle Paul wrote to had serious issues with sin. Paul warned the Church that if they continued in their sin, that those who do such things, would not enter the Kingdom of God.

Also consider what Jesus stated.

For instance:

Revelation 3:2-5 … 2 Wake up, and keep the things that remain, which are about to die, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If therefore you do not wake up, I will come as a thief, and you won't know what hour I will come to you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Mark Quayle said:

Meanwhile, I want to remark that Hebrews 6 has a nice little phrase, "It is impossible", describing a scenario that sounds like Hebrews 10. Whether the Greek grammatically demands that it refers to the subsequent "for them to be returned to repentance" or whether it means that the scenario is impossible, I don't know --I have heard it both ways.

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setst RE: I quoted Hebrews 10:26-30

I also quoted relevant supporting Passages:

Romans 8:12-13 (NIV)
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 6:7-9 (NIV)
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest IF we do not give up.

Romans 11:19-22 (NIV) You (talking to each individual Christian) will say then, “Branches (plural - not nations of Israel but actual people) were broken off so that I (talking to individuals) could be grafted in.”
20 Granted. But they (plural for Jews) were broken off because of unbelief, and you (individual Christians) stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches (plural for Jews), he will not spare you (the Christian he is talking to) either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

• Branches are individuals - Jew or Gentile Christians.
• Gentiles are included by faith.

Romans 11:25... Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles (Plural individual believers) has come in.

No Gentile nations here. And there is only one Israel, not many Israels.

• Gentiles are grafted in by faith,
• but must remain faithful
• or be cut off for not remaining faithful.
• That is why we must be afraid

Mark Quayle said:

Meanwhile also, I find that being faithful, though indeed my responsibility, is beyond my ability to do apart from the Spirit in me.

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setst RE: Believing and being faithful are possible even without the Spirit. Consider the cloud of witnesses in Hebrews 11 who all had enduring faith before the Spirit was ever poured out on believers. Consider the God-fearing Jews in the NT before ever learning about the Gospel.

Consider that you can't even receive the Spirit until you first believe. And faith comes by hearing the Word of Christ.

John 7:37-39 (WEB) Bolding mine…
37 “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink!
38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.

A person cannot even receive the Spirit unless they first show an obedient faith after hearing the Gospel...

Acts 5:32 We are His witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

John 14:15-17 (NIV)
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.

John 14:23 (NIV)
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Mark Quayle said:

It seems to me that those who think they have been faithful by virtue of their integrity are fooling themselves. "Apart from me you can do nothing."

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setst RE: You must believe first before ever receiving the Spirit. Turning in humility to God who can save them - to trust in God - has nothing to do with personal integrity.

Without God making salvation possible through the atoning work of Christ, no one would be saved - but we receive God's grace, and are declared righteous, and receive His Spirit, by faith.

If we are attempting to be righteous before God by our own works, then we will fail. However, if by faith we submit our will to God, even before the Spirit was given, God counts that faith as righteousness, just as Abraham, and all the OT believers, was declared righteous by faith.

Luke 21:34-36 (WEB)
34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Mark Quayle said:

I go further, to insist that it is God who is keeping me faithful, and though my will is so involved that I am overwhelmed with sorrow at my unfaithfulness, it is God who does the work. My decision and further pursuit of Christ, my work, is a result, not a cause.

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setst RE: God gives the believer His Spirit to empower their faith and to work out God's will for them, but only as the believer is willing, by faith, to live and walk by the Spirit God gave them:

Romans 8:12-13 (NIV)
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 5:16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Show me the Scriptures that teach that God keeps us faithful?

God keeps us from falling IF we remain faithful. All God's promises come through faith.

• By faith I am justified: Romans 5:1
• By Faith in Jesus we are sanctified: Acts 26:16-18
• By faith God credits righteousness to me: Romans 4:3-11; Romans 4:2-24
• By faith, not works, do I receive the free gift of salvation: Romans 9:30-33
• By faith, we follow, and live in obedience to, Lord Jesus to receive life: Romans 1:5, Romans 6:22, Romans 16:25-27, Hebrews 5:8-10, Matthew 28:19-20, John 14:21, 1 John 2:4
• By faith I access God's saving grace: Romans 5:1-2
• By faith I receive the power of God onto salvation: Romans 1:16-17
• By faith I receive His Spirit: Acts 2:38; Acts 5:32; Galatians 3:2; Ephesians 1:13-14; John 7:37-39; John 14:15-17; John 14:23
• By faith I am regenerated by the Holy Spirit: John 7:37-39
• By faith I am born of God: John 1:12-13; Galatians 3:26
• By faith to the end I receive the Crown of Life: Revelation 2:10
• By Faith, and obedience that comes from faith, we are counted worthy for salvation: Matthew 10:48, Luke 21:34-36, Acts 26:19-20, Philippians 1:27, 1 Thessalonians 2:11-12, 2 Thessalonians 1:5, James 1:12-15, Revelation 3:2-5, Luke 9:23-25, John 10:27-28, Mark 8:34-36, Luke 14:27-35
• By faith I am kept by God's Power until the end 1 Peter 1:4-5
• By faith we overcome and are saved: 1 John 5:2-4, 1 Timothy 4:16, Revelation 2:4-7, Revelation 2:10-11, Revelation 3:2-5, Revelation 3:21
• The end result of my faith is my salvation 1 Peter 1:9

"From faith to faith, the righteous will live by faith." Romans 1:16-17

If faith is genuine, then it will and must lead to obedience - and that is your responsibility before God to be counted worthy for salvation:

Romans 1:5 (NIV)
5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.

Romans 6:16 (NIV)
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey — whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Romans 16:25-27 (NIV)
25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Matthew 10:37-38 (NIV)
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

Bible Highlighter said:

In Matthew 13:41-42, Christ will send forth his angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend (i.e. those who make others to sin) and those who work iniquity (sin or lawlessness) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (the Lake of Fire).
This means those believers who justified sin in this life are going to be cast into the Lake of Fire by Christ’s angels at the Judgement. For these are the ones who will be taken out of Christ’s kingdom.

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it isn't a justification. It's humility that we are not good by our own works and recognizing the fallibility of the flesh. We're to deny the flesh every single day, and we will struggle against the flesh, every single day. But are you going to claim that you lead a completely sinless life, in total 100% obedience?

setst777 said:

setst RE: I am not disagreeing or agreeing with the OP; rather, I am pointing out that Christians, who have the Spirit in them, if they deliberately keep sinning, are insulting the Spirit of God. When this happens, and if they do not repent, or God does not allow them to repent because of their obstinate disregard for His Spirit, then such persons are judged more severely then even non-believers because of the advantage the Christian received by possessing the Spirit, and because of the knowledge they had of the Word of God. I quoted several Passages to show this is the case.

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Is it possible for such a "Christian" to actually be born again, of the Spirit? Or is the Spirit using them in accordance with their compliance with the tenets of the faith and God's law?

Mark Quayle said:

Is it possible for such a "Christian" to actually be born again, of the Spirit? Or is the Spirit using them in accordance with their compliance with the tenets of the faith and God's law?

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setst RE: I don't believe the Spirit, who is received by faith, uses anyone; rather, the Spirit enters the believer to be their guide and helper and to give them life, but only as they live by that Spirit in them by faith.

The New Life is only possible as the Christian continues to live by the Spirit they received by faith. Only a remnant of those who by faith receive the Spirit will continue to remain faithful to the end of their lives. I say this in consideration of Jesus' warning to the Churches in Revelation. I notice that only some will actually overcome and remain faithful to the end.

Romans 8:12-13 (NIV)
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 6:7-9 (NIV)
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest IF we do not give up.

To possess life in Christ we must daily live and walk by the Spirit we receive.

setst777 said:

setst RE: I don't believe the Spirit, who is received by faith, uses anyone; rather, the Spirit enters the believer to be their guide and helper and to give them life, but only as they live by that Spirit in them by faith.

The New Life is only possible as the Christian continues to live by the Spirit they received by faith.

Romans 8:12-13 (NIV)
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 6:7-9 (NIV)
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest IF we do not give up.

To possess life in Christ we must daily live and walk by the Spirit we receive.

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Sets:

You told me before we are not obligated to keep the Moral Law (Note: I referred to the Moral Law as: Do not murder, do not covet, do not steal, etc.) and yet you quote Romans 8:13 that says that it live according to the flesh, you will die and you quote Galatians 6:7-9 about sowing to please the flesh, they will reap destruction. Galatians 6:8-9 is in context to Galatians 5:19-21 that condemns not keeping the Moral Law. It says those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I am not talking about the Law of Moses. The 613 laws of Moses is no more contractually speaking. I am talking about New Covenant Laws here (New Testament commands). There are approximately 400 or so by my personal study. Oh and yes. Keeping certain commands is a part of salvation.

I believe by faith in God’s grace is how we are initially and ultimately saved. I believe by faith in God’s grace is how we are able to then obey and are able to keep the commandments of Jesus and His followers.