Daniel's 70th week

Douggg

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Your post is very confusing. It seems like you're telling me what the "finish the transgression" is not. So: when is "the finishing of the transgression concerning Jerusalem"?
The day that Jesus returns and takes his rightful place as the King of Israel, blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord (Matthew 23:39). And brings all of them in captivity of the house of Israel back to the land of Israel (Ezekiel 39:28).

Ezekiel 39:21-29, Jesus Himself is speaking in the text, in the future, at the end of the seven years, following judgement on them who choose to make war on him (Ezekiel 39:17-20), having returned to earth.

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
 
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Douggg

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Your chart is so messed up it is hard to no where to start. I would simply start with a new biblical chart.
You are free to make your own chart, for comparison. But there is nothing wrong with the one I made.
 
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DavidPT

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Unless this prophecy isn't talking about the city itself but the church.


I'm still considering what else you submitted in this post, so I don't as of yet have a response to any of that, but in the meantime I would like to at least tackle this part.

If it is meaning the church, what transgression involving the church needed to be finished within this 70 week period, IOW, within this 490 years? And if one makes the holy city the church in that verse, what would that make Daniel's people in that verse? The transgression involves both, doesn't it? Plus we have to keep in mind this transgression needing finished began from a time before this 70 week countdown even began. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the church fitting here, unless of course you have Biblical answers for all of the above that I asked about.
 
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pasifika

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Let's start before verse 27 in order to try and determine the pronouns in verse 27.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Verse 27 starts out like such---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. In order to determine who the pronoun is referring to, we have to look in verse 26 and see who the last person mentioned was.

The last person mentioned is meaning this person---the prince that shall come. That means we are to understand verse 27 like such.

the prince that shall come shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week the prince that shall come shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations the prince that shall come shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Obviously this can't be meaning Jesus. We can know that from this part---and for the overspreading of abominations the prince that shall come shall make it desolate

It would be ludicrous to associate abominations with that of Jesus, yet some still do, regardless. I will never understand why though.
Hello David, I agree with you that the "He" in verse Daniel 9:27 is Not referring to Jesus Christ But the Antichrist....

Daniel 11:31-32 ..."His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the Abomination that causes desolation. With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him....

This is just repeating Daniel 9:27...but we can see clearly that this refers to the man of Sin or Antichrist NOT Jesus..

Thank you DavidPT
 
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sovereigngrace

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The day that Jesus returns and takes his rightful place as the King of Israel, blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord (Matthew 23:39). And brings all of them in captivity of the house of Israel back to the land of Israel (Ezekiel 39:28).

Ezekiel 39:21-29, Jesus Himself is speaking in the text, in the future, at the end of the seven years, following judgement on them who choose to make war on him (Ezekiel 39:17-20), having returned to earth.

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

There is so much Scripture you must dismiss or ignore in order to make such speculations. Christ is Israel's king - true Israel, not apostate Christ rejecting Israel. He is reigning on David's throne since the resurrection as king, Lord and Redeemer.

It clearly states that. Psalms 132:12 says, "The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne."

What you need to see is that Peter is referring to this in Acts 2:29-36, saying: “Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ (Acts 2:25-31).

The whole context here is expressly speaking about the One that would assume David's throne. It is speaking about the only One that could gloriously take it. Christ was that man. He was of course the promised offspring of David (the fruit of his loins). None else would take such a final place of authority. Christ was indeed the fulfilment of the Davidic promise. He now reigns supreme.

Christ already came physically and revealed the kingdom of God to Israel. The problem was, it just wasn't what they expected. The fact is the Messianic kingdom is here. Messiah has come. The kingdom is found everywhere Christ reigns in sovereign control. The kingdom is here on this earth now in the hearts of God's people (the Israel of God).

Peace marks the kingdom today. You fail to address the many passages that show peace as an active ongoing reality for God's people in this current age.
 
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DavidPT

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Hello David, I agree with you that the "He" in verse Daniel 9:27 is Not referring to Jesus Christ But the Antichrist....

Daniel 11:31-32 ..."His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the Abomination that causes desolation. With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him....

This is just repeating Daniel 9:27...but we can see clearly that this refers to the man of Sin or Antichrist NOT Jesus..

Thank you DavidPT


And I agree with you that this clearly connects with Daniel 11:31-32. A lot of people refuse to accept that any of this connects with Daniel 11 though.
 
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DavidPT

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Romans 5
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Was that righteousness everlasting, or was it temporary?

If it was temporary, when did it end?

It did not end.

It was established by Christ's Sacrifice, and became everlasting at that moment.

As Daniel prophesied.


That still doesn't explain why Peter was still looking for a place in the future, wherein dwelleth righteousness. If everlasting righteousness had already been brought in before he penned those words, that should indicate he was already living in a place, wherein dwelleth righteousness. How could it not?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Romans 5
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Was that righteousness everlasting, or was it temporary?

If it was temporary, when did it end?

It did not end.

It was established by Christ's Sacrifice, and became everlasting at that moment.

As Daniel prophesied.

Amen! I believe the return of Christ is the ultimate final glorious fulfillment of it, but from what I see in Scripture His life, death and resurrection actually introduced it. Similarly, He defeated sin, but the Second Coming will see the consummation of that. But it has already been introduced/secured.

Psalms 119:137-138, 142 outlines, Righteous art thou, O LORD, and upright are thy judgments. Thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful … Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.”

Christ is the ultimate personification and manifestation of everlasting righteousness. When he came to this earth, He brought "everlasting righteousness" to this sin-cursed world. He was the light in the midst of darkness. Those sinners who embrace Him experience "everlasting righteousness" and become a conduit for His Spirit to reveal Christ (the light of the world) through.

Christ has expressly fulfilled every demand that the Father made of Him in His sinless life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection. A question that should be considered is: Was that righteousness secured through Christ’s death “everlasting” as predicted or temporal?

2 Corinthians 9:9 addresses our query, saying, “As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.”

The righteousness that flowed from the Cross is expressly “remaineth for ever.” It is eternal in nature and it is effectual in the lives of the redeemed of God. This reading clearly and concisely confirms, as predicted in Daniel 9 of His first Advent, that the righteousness that Christ secured was assuredly “everlasting righteousness,” not temporal as some would try and argue. This is in total keeping with the eternal character of the kingdom He ushered in and the spiritual life that the believer experiences when they encounter Christ. We can therefore deduce, the life within the believer is as eternal as God is.

Psalm 92:15: “The Lord is upright . . . there is no unrighteousness in Him.”

1 John 2:1: “if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”

The Lord is righteous and every act He does or word He speaks epitomises righteousness. In short, He is the absolute personification of righteousness. Righteousness reigns were He reigns and exercises authority. Moreover, the righteousness that we speak of that pertains to God is constantly represented as everlasting. There is no starting point to it and equally there is no end. Where God lives, righteousness exists. The two are inseparable. God is “from everlasting” (Habakkuk 1:12, Psalms 93:2). Therefore, His righteousness is everlasting. At the incarnation, Christ chose to manifest God’s eternal righteousness to sinful through His earthly ministry and the eternal life that He offered men.

In Matthew 6:33 Christ identified the kingdom with Himself, when He said, “seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” Here the kingdom and Christ are viewed as one. Being part of the kingdom of God is being part of Christ. Being part of Christ means taking on His righteousness.

The great redemption chapter of Isaiah 53 had prophesied of Christ and the great eternal consequence that would emanate from Calvary for God’s elect: "my righteous servant shall make many righteous." How can futurists remotely deny that this great transaction was fulfilled 2,000 years ago at Calvary? Christ rendered many righteous through the redemptive work of the Cross. After all, He is “the Lord our righteousness (Jeremiah 23:6).

2 Corinthians 5:21 provides the answer, saying,for he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

At Calvary our sin was imputed or transferred to Christ; upon conversion His righteousness was imputed or transferred to us! Christ’s perfect once all-sufficient self sacrifice secured a full, real and perfect redemption for his own. Matthew Henry (that great Puritan) puts it beautifully, “Christ, who knew no sin of his own, was made sin for us, so we, who have no righteousness of our own, are made the righteousness of God in him. Our reconciliation to God is only through Jesus Christ, and for the sake of his merit: on him therefore we must rely, and make mention of his righteousness and his only.”

As man’s representative he took upon himself the form of man, living the life that we could never live. He kept and fulfilled the law perfectly, by living a life of perfect obedience. As our guarantor he voluntarily and unconditionally bore the necessary punishment of the penitent sinner. Christ paid our penalty in full by his substitutionary atoning death, this relieving us of our guilt, and purchasing our complete redemption.

When Christ approached John (at the beginning of the final week of Daniel) for him to baptise Him, John immediately refused, to which the Master declared, “Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness (Matthew 3:15).

Likewise, Hebrews 1:8-9 says, “unto the Son he saith, thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” Christ ushered that eternal kingdom in at the beginning of the 70th week. Jesus testified, in Luke 16:16, “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the Kingdom of God is preached, and every man ‘presseth’ (or biazetai – or suffereth violence) into it.”

The legal accomplishment of the Cross and the righteousness that was imputed to the penitent sinner was relative equally to the Old and New Testament saints. He was made a curse for us (Galatians 3:13). The shedding of the blood satisfied the Father and reconciled the sinner to God, securing eternal redemption. Christ the sinless Lamb of God was made sin on the sinner’s behalf. 1 John 2:29 declares, “Everyone that doeth righteousness is born of him

The “everlasting righteousness” that is found in Christ has now been graciously imputed to His elect through mystical union in salvation. Romans 4:20-24 declares, talking about Abraham the father of the faith, “He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.”

The righteousness within us, which we have seen is not our own, is eternal in its makeup. It was accounted to us through the Cross. This righteousness which comes from God through Christ is appropriated by grace through faith. Romans 3:22 declares, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe.” The righteousness the believer has is not his own it is imputed (or put into us) of the Lord. Christ is our righteousness. Romans 5:21 says, as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.” This “imputed” righteousness is also expressly of an “eternal” nature.

David Wilkerson states in a written sermon called Perfect Righteousness, “The only righteousness that is acceptable in God's eyes is the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ our Lord. And it is a righteousness that can be had only by faith!”

He continues, “This imputation comes by faith alone. We can't work for it or merit it in any way. Rather, because of our faith in Jesus and His redeeming work, the Lord credits the righteousness of Christ to us -- and we are reckoned as perfect in Him. That's right -- you and I are credited with the same righteousness that Jesus obtained here on this earth. By confessing our sins and having faith in Him, we stand before God with an imputed righteousness. And it is a perfect righteousness that is of faith and not of works.”

I John 3:7 says, “let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” It was Calvary however that fully realised the imputation of eternal righteousness into the child of God. 1 Peter 2:24 says, who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”

Calvary was the event that ensured that God’s elect would enter into the unending rest of “everlasting righteousness.” We therefore stand boldly and solely by faith in the righteousness of Christ and His shed blood, in total and absolute spiritual liberty.

Q. Was not this righteousness that he brought in everlasting?

A. Romans 5:17-21 says, “For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Calvary was the specific event that brought “in everlasting righteousness” for mankind. Our sin was imputed to Christ; His righteousness was imputed to us! Christ’s perfect once all-sufficient self sacrifice secured a full, real and perfect redemption for his own, whether Old or New Testament saints. The awful “condemnation” that afflicts every man since the fall through inherited sin is completely removed “in Christ” through the new birth experience. Through salvation the penitent is fully justified and “made righteous” in the eyes of God. He is taken instantly from spiritual death into spiritual life by being raised from a horrible spiritual grave. Romans 3:24-25 declares of His elect, “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.”

Calvary secured the imputation of that righteousness. This eternal or everlasting righteousness is contrasted to the old sacrifices under the law, which were only of a temporary nature. But Christ, once for all time, offered himself thus providing, as the prophecy of Daniel had said, "everlasting righteousness." Galatians 2:21 affirms, if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

Christ’s death 2,000 years ago is again presented as the occasion that realised the eternal imputation of God’s elect with heaven’s righteousness. There is therefore absolutely no basis for the futurist teaching that none of these things have yet been fulfilled. To teach such is highly unscriptural and totally undermines the great redemptive work that Christ wrought at Calvary.

Paul the Apostle testified in Philippians 3:9, “not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.”

We are not justified by our “own righteousness” or our strict adherence to “the works of the law” (because no can truly attain to that), we are justified by walking “by faith” in “the righteousness of God” which was made possible by the substitutionary work of Jesus Christ on the Cross. A righteousness that we could never attain has been placed within us through the life and work of Christ. The righteousness that the believer now owns is therefore not his own it is imputed (or put into him) of Christ.

The righteousness that Christ ushered in was undoubtedly eternal or everlasting. It is perpetually effectual, and will last forever.

There is no other future event that can fulfil this wonderful prophecy but the cross. The one alone that was qualified to fulfil this did it perfectly and finally.

Romans 10:3-4 says of the religious who trust in their own innate righteousness: "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

He brought in everlasting righteousness, we seek none other.
 
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pasifika

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And I agree with you that this clearly connects with Daniel 11:31-32. A lot of people refuse to accept that any of this connects with Daniel 11 though.
Thank you, there are two events happens at the half of the seven year period in Daniel 9:27...
  1. Sacrifice and offering ceased
  2. Abomination that causes desolation is committed...
Same events in Daniel 11:31-32
 
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sovereigngrace

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That still doesn't explain why Peter was still looking for a place in the future, wherein dwelleth righteousness. If everlasting righteousness had already been brought in before he penned those words, that should indicate he was already living in a place, wherein dwelleth righteousness. How could it not?

Please see above!
 
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DavidPT

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Unless this prophecy isn't talking about the city itself but the church.



The "finishing of the transgression" is included in the 70 weeks. It's not conditional. God said it would be finished. Now given that we have to accept that God doesn't lie, then we have to reconcile this with the knowledge that it had to have happened. One can't break the law of Moses anymore because it is no longer in effect. So there are no more transgressions against that law and the moment Christ declared "it is finished," that was the end of transgressions under that la.

Let's look at one more thing for now----and to bring in everlasting righteousness



It's been brought in. And we know it's been brought in because God said it would all happen in the determined time. He didn't say, "70 weeks are determined unless you think that some of this hasn't occurred."



If God says something is going to happen in a certain time period, that's when it's going to happen. There is no gap. When he told Abraham that his descendants were going to be enslaved for 400 years before he brought them out of Egypt, that's exactly how much time it took.

When he said that he was going to give 120 years before he flooded the earth, that's how long it took. He doesn't change his mind about prophecy. When he told the Israelites that because of their grumbling and distrust he would postpone their entry into Caanan for 40 years, that's how long it took.

The gap is inserted by people who don't accept what God says. Instead of reconciling their confusion with the word, they insert a gap and apply these and other prophecies which were all talking about Jesus, not a physical earthly realm, to a physical earthly realm that hasn't occurred yet. It never will. Jesus said, "my kingdom is not of this world."

What did he point out to his apostles and disciples about these sorts of things?

Luke 24
25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” 27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

John 2
18 So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?”

19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”

21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.

There will be no "third temple." Jesus is the new temple prophesied in Ezekiel 48. The reason for all those measurements? A symbol of its surety. God has measured it and has determined that it is so. And it was so. Everything you read about this has to be considered with this in mind. Paul explains this sort of literal reading of scripture and how those stuck in fleshly readings are missing the point.

2 Corinthians 3
5 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.


Take off the veil :)


Let's try this angle then.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


What does the text plainly say? Does it say 10 weeks are determined, to finish the transgression?? 40 weeks are determined to finish, the transgression?? 69 weeks are determined, to finish the transgression? 69 and 1/2 weeks are determined, to finish the transgression? No, it says none of those. It clearly says 70 weeks are determined, to finish the transgression.


Apparently then, the trangression is not even finished until an entire 70 weeks have been fulfilled first. As to Daniel 9:27, in the midst of the week, is that meaning at the conclusion of an entire 70 weeks, 490 years? No. It's only meaning 69 and 1/2 weeks thusfar, 486.5 years, therefore nothing in the midst of the 70th week equals the 70 full weeks determined, to finish the transgression. But if you think I'm wrong here, why does the text in Daniel 9:24 plainly and undeniably say 70 weeks are determined, unless it literally meant what it says?
 
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sovereigngrace

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That still doesn't explain why Peter was still looking for a place in the future, wherein dwelleth righteousness. If everlasting righteousness had already been brought in before he penned those words, that should indicate he was already living in a place, wherein dwelleth righteousness. How could it not?
  • We have been rendered righteous through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
  • We have been redeemed through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
  • We have experienced eternal life through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
  • We reign through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
  • We have overcome sin, death, decay and Satan through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
  • We have tasted of the age to come through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
  • We have experienced the new creation through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
This is a great mystery described by many able theologians as the contrast between the already/not yet. There is a definite contrast yet correlation between time and eternity, the seen and the unseen, the corruptible and the incorruptible, the imperfect and the perfect, the physical and the spiritual, the natural and the supernatural, the earthly and the heavenly. Preterist only see the past. Futurist only see the future. Balanced Bible believers see no conflict, just an incredible blessed mysterious revealing master-plan that will soon be fully and wholly realized.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Let's try this angle then.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


What does the text plainly say? Does it say 10 weeks are determined, to finish the transgression?? 40 weeks are determined to finish, the transgression?? 69 weeks are determined, to finish the transgression? 69 and 1/2 weeks are determined, to finish the transgression? No, it says none of those. It clearly says 70 weeks are determined, to finish the transgression.


Apparently then, the trangression is not even finished until an entire 70 weeks have been fulfilled first. As to Daniel 9:27, in the midst of the week, is that meaning at the conclusion of an entire 70 weeks, 490 years? No. It's only meaning 69 and 1/2 weeks thusfar, 486.5 years, therefore nothing in the midst of the 70th week equals the 70 full weeks determined, to finish the transgression. But if you think I'm wrong here, why does the text in Daniel 9:24 plainly and undeniably say 70 weeks are determined, unless it literally meant what it says?

Basically, in that period certain key things will happen at clearly defined moments. These occurred right on time, and in the exact manner described, thus proving God knows what He is talking about, is always right and is faithful to His Word!
 
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DavidPT

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  • We have been rendered righteousness through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
  • We have been redeemed through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
  • We have experienced eternal life through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
  • We have reign through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
  • We have overcome sin, death, decay and Satan through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
  • We have tasted of the age to come through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
  • We have experienced the new creation through the cross, but its final perfect manifestation still awaits us at Christ’s glorious climactic return in majesty and glory.
This is a great mystery described by many able theologians as the correlation between the already/not yet. There is a definite contrast yet correlation between time and eternity, the seen and the unseen, the corruptible and the incorruptible, the imperfect and the perfect, the physical and the spiritual, the natural and the supernatural, the earthly and the heavenly. Preterist only see the past. Futurist only see the future. Balanced Bible believers see no conflict, just an incredible blessed mysterious revealing master-plan that will soon be fully and wholly realized.


So in your opinion what kind of righteousness was Peter still looking for in the future that he was unable to find within the everlasting righteousness many of you allege has already been brought in? How can everlasting righteousness even be trumped?
 
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sovereigngrace

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So in your opinion what kind of righteousness was Peter still looking for in the future that he was unable to find within the everlasting righteousness many of you allege has already been brought in? How can everlasting righteousness even be trumped?

Good question!

When we see that everlasting righteousness in all its majestic glorious perfect final realized glory. When we move from faith to sight! 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 declares, “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect (or teleios) is come, then that which is in part shall be done awayFor now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”

The Greek word teleios (Strong’s 5046) which comes from the Greek word telos (Strong’s 5046), which we are very familiar with meaning ‘the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically, an impost or levy (as paid)’. It is speaking about the end – the consummation. In fact, the all-consummating Coming of Christ.

The limitations of this age are contrasted with the glory and the perfection of the age to come. After the Lord’s return, temporal gifts like prophecies, tongues and the gift of knowledge shall all vanish away. Why? We don’t need them anymore as we will have a full and perfect understanding of truth. However, “Charity never faileth.” A billion years into eternity we will still need love. We will love Christ throughout eternity. Love will never cease.

This age

(1) We know in part
(2) We see through a glass, darkly

The age to come

(1) “That which is in part shall be done away”
(2) “when that which is perfect is come … then shall I know even as also I am known.”
 
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Douggg

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There is so much Scripture you must dismiss or ignore in order to make such speculations. Christ is Israel's king - true Israel, not apostate Christ rejecting Israel. He is reigning on David's throne since the resurrection as king, Lord and Redeemer.

It clearly states that. Psalms 132:12 says, "The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne."

What you need to see is that Peter is referring to this in Acts 2:29-36, saying: “Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ (Acts 2:25-31).

The whole context here is expressly speaking about the One that would assume David's throne. It is speaking about the only One that could gloriously take it. Christ was that man. He was of course the promised offspring of David (the fruit of his loins). None else would take such a final place of authority. Christ was indeed the fulfilment of the Davidic promise. He now reigns supreme.

Christ already came physically and revealed the kingdom of God to Israel. The problem was, it just wasn't what they expected. The fact is the Messianic kingdom is here. Messiah has come. The kingdom is found everywhere Christ reigns in sovereign control. The kingdom is here on this earth now in the hearts of God's people (the Israel of God).

Peace marks the kingdom today. You fail to address the many passages that show peace as an active ongoing reality for God's people in this current age.
Was you former screen-name Babrean2 ?
 
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DavidPT

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Basically, in that period certain key things will happen at clearly defined moments. These occurred right on time, and in the exact manner described, thus proving God knows what He is talking about, is always right and is faithful to His Word!


If everything in Daniel 9:24 is fulfilled before an entire 70 weeks are completed, why even need an entire 70 weeks then?

Take the following unrelated example.

Jeremiah 25:12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.

Would anyone conclude---that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations---that that is meaning before an entire 70 years are accomplished first?

And if no, why would this same one conclude, in Daniel 9:27, that the transgression can be finished before the entire 70 weeks are even entirely accomplished first?
 
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Christian Gedge

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If everything in Daniel 9:24 is fulfilled before an entire 70 weeks are completed, why even need an entire 70 weeks then?

The 6 clauses of Daniel 9:24 were fulfilled over the entire 70th week. The cross was 7th April AD 30 and the weeks ended when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Gentiles. (approx nisan AD 34 by my calculation)
 
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DavidPT

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Was you former screen-name Babrean2 ?


Douggg, he can answer for himself of course, if he so chooses, yet IMO, this is not Babrean2. For one, if it was him, where are all of these Youtube videos he usually uses as arguments for his position?
 
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Douggg

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There is so much Scripture you must dismiss or ignore in order to make such speculations.
It is you who is ignoring the Ezekiel 39:21-29.

You make a long winded post about soteriology, not eschatology. Ezekiel 39:21-29 is proof that the 7 years are yet to come, following the Gog/Magog event.
 
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