Why Christians should reject Partial Preterism

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claninja

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What has this to do with what I wrote?

This whole parable is focused in on Israel’s inheritance. It shows that through their wanton and continuous rebellion they forfeited their original heritage. The kingdom of God is shown here to have been taken off Israel and given unto “other husbandmen.” In His summing up of His message, Christ predicts, in this vivid parable, the Jews rejection of Himself and His ultimate crucifixion. The new inheritors would be a fruit-bearing people possessing the necessary spiritual credentials. They would do what Israel refused to do, which was “reverence” God’s Son. This company would never be based upon or restricted to one nationality, color or geographical location – it would be international and trans-national, incorporating all the peoples of the world. There is no hint or inclination in this parable that the vineyard would then be given back to these Christ-rejecting husbandmen (representing the old physical economy that was restricted to natural Israel), but that it would be given to the whosoever believeth of all nations, including repentant Jews.

So you do believe the vineyard owner returned to destroy the wicked tenants or do you believe that still future?

Matthew 21:40-41 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard RETURNS, what will he do to those tenants? “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”

Matthew 21:45 When the chief priests and Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew He was speaking about them.

Not so!

Why possibly would we would the largely Gentile New Testament Church (whom most of the NT letters were written to) be obsessed (like you) with the coming of Titus in AD70? It doesn't make sense! It is insane! It is wrong! The sacred text is rather obsessed with Jesus Christ. Preterists do not get that! Their posts are littered with AD70 quotes, depictions and rhetoric. It is another gospel. It is the gospel of the coming of Titus in AD7. It is a dangerous aberration from the Gospel of Christ.

Every promise the New Testament Church owns, every spiritual requirement it is meant to keep and every future hope it is meant to hold during the intra-Advent, is diverted away from Christ to Titus and his appearing in AD70. That is why every genuine Christian should run from this error.

Absolutely so, as your statement clearly shows your misunderstanding of partial preterism.
 
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sovereigngrace

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then how come genea, in any scripture or body of work, is never translated as race without association with peoples living at the same time then?

Strongs has it associated with men living at the same time:

"3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 1:48 (πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί); ; Philippians 2:15; used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16; Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 11:31; τήν δέ γενεάν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8 the Sept.) (but cf. Meyer, at the passage)."



Name one Bible translation that translates genea as race.



then why wasn't genos used instead of genea in matthew 24:34?



I disagree. If you can actually show any translated bible or book that translates genea as race, then you may have an argument.

Both genos and genea refer to race.

G1074 (Strong)
γενεά

genea

From (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age, generation, nation, time.

G1074 (Thayer)

γενεά

genea

Thayer Definition:

1) fathered, birth, nativity

2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family

2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy

2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character

2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation

3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time

4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years
 
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mkgal1

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Both genos and genea refer to race.

G1074 (Strong)
γενεά

genea

From (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age, generation, nation, time.

G1074 (Thayer)



Since you keep repeating this very exact same post - I will also keep posting the lexicon that applies to Matthew 23:36.

Matthew 23:36 Lexicon: "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

And Strong's attributes this specific definition for Matthew 23:36 ~

the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 1:48 (πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί); ; Philippians 2:15; used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16; Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 11:31; τήν δέ γενεάν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8 the Sept.) (but cf. Meyer, at the passage).Strong's Greek: 1074. γενεά (genea) -- race, family, generation
 
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sovereigngrace

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Absolutely not so. I have no idea where you got that idea from.

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching [Gr. eggizō].

What was this talking about? What is the day approaching?

"The Coming of the Son of Man" is how Jesus referred to it. ISTM that you'd rather use YOUR term instead.

Not "ends" - our security, our inheritance became complete (they only had a "deposit" ) at the "Coming of the Son of Man". He vindicated His servants......released them from oppression. He completed the process of atonement.

Your doctrine requires you to deny so much crucial solid truth. It was the first coming of Jesus and His cross-work that made us complete. Col 2:10 says (before the coming of Titus and AD70): "And ye are complete in him [Christ], which is the head of all principality and power."

Your fixation with Titus forces you to deny Christ His lawful position and central work in our faith!

Salvation (atonement) arrived in fullness at the "Coming of the Son of Man" in 70 AD. That's why we see so many mentions of "our salvation is near" and "fulfillment of the ages" (Romans 13:11; 1 Corinthians 10:11; 1 Peter 4:7 and, thank you, Luke 21:28)

That is ridiculous. That is not true. It arrived at the cross. The final aspect of our redemption is the perfecting of our bodies. The redemption of our bodies occurs on the day of redemption – Jesus return. You make AD70 the center point of history. It is not! Christ first advent and His second advent are that!

Ephesians 4:30 says, “And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

Ephesians 1:13 declares, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”

The Holy Spirit is here described as “that Holy Spirit of promise.” This is a promise to us today, until He comes. Titus or AD70 could not break it!

The word “earnest” here relates to a security down payment. It is taken from the Greek word arrhabon, which is from a Hebrew origin [meaning a pledge in advance as security for the rest. You have heard of earnest money. It is a portion of something, given or done in advance as a promise of the remainder. The WordWeb dictionary defines the noun "earnest" as: “Something of value given by one person to another to bind a contract.”

Romans 8:16-18 explains, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”

Romans 8:19-23 continues, “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

This is looking to the termination of “the bondage of corruption” that will occur at Christ coming, where our bodies are finally redeemed at the resurrection (“the redemption of our body”). This is the day of redemption!
 
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mkgal1

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3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
You seem to be overlooking that the Strong's lexicon attributes THIS specific definition for Matthew 23:36. Why is that?
 
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mkgal1

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That is ridiculous. That is not true. It arrived at the cross.
Then maybe you believe Jesus misunderstood that (in His quoted words in Luke 21)? The process BEGAN at the cross - their sins were forgiven at the cross - but there's more to the process of atonement and was more prophecy left to fulfill.


The Return of the Son of Man
(Matthew 24:26-31; Mark 13:24-27)

25There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among the nations, bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the surging of the waves. 26Men will faint from fear and anxiety over what is coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.b 28When these things begin to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”
 
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mkgal1

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You make AD70 the centerpoint of history. It is not!
I make Christ the centerpoint. It's just that you fixate on our differing beliefs about the significance/lack of significance about the Coming of the Son of Man in 70 AD.
 
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sovereigngrace

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So you do believe the vineyard owner returned to destroy the wicked tenants or do you believe that still future?

Matthew 21:40-41 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard RETURNS, what will he do to those tenants? “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”

Matthew 21:45 When the chief priests and Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew He was speaking about them.

They killed Christ, when He defeated the grave, but He returned shortly after that in His resurrected body and empowered His disciples (through Pentecost) to take the Gospel out to a Gentile world! By AD52 Colossians 1:6 tells us that the Gospel "Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth."

This was before the coming of Titus in AD70!!!

Absolutely so, as your statement clearly shows your misunderstanding of partial preterism.

I'm going on what you and mkgal have confessed here! Show me were my conclusion is wrong.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Then maybe you believe Jesus misunderstood that (in His quoted words in Luke 21)? The process BEGAN at the cross - their sins were forgiven at the cross - but there's more to the process of atonement and was more prophecy left to fulfill.


The Return of the Son of Man
(Matthew 24:26-31; Mark 13:24-27)

25There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among the nations, bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the surging of the waves. 26Men will faint from fear and anxiety over what is coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.b 28When these things begin to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

The redemption of our bodies!!!!
 
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sovereigngrace

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Then maybe you believe Jesus misunderstood that (in His quoted words in Luke 21)? The process BEGAN at the cross - their sins were forgiven at the cross - but there's more to the process of atonement and was more prophecy left to fulfill.


The Return of the Son of Man
(Matthew 24:26-31; Mark 13:24-27)

25There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among the nations, bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the surging of the waves. 26Men will faint from fear and anxiety over what is coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.b 28When these things begin to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Please address my previous post, that forbids your reasoning, instead of skipping around the salient points.

It is the final aspect of redemption - the perfecting of our bodies. The redemption of our bodies occurs on the day of redemption - Jesus return. You make AD70 the centerpoint of history. It is not! Christ first advent and His second advent is that!

Ephesians 4:30 says, “And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

Ephesians 1:13 declares, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”

The Holy Spirit is here described as “that Holy Spirit of promise.” This is a promise to us today, until He comes. Titus or AD70 could not break it!

The word “earnest” here relates to a security down payment. It is taken from the Greek word arrhabon, which is from a Hebrew origin [meaning a pledge in advance as security for the rest. You have heard of earnest money. It is a portion of something, given or done in advance as a promise of the remainder. The WordWeb dictionary defines the noun "earnest" as: “Something of value given by one person to another to bind a contract.”

Romans 8:16-18 explains, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”

Romans 8:19-23 continues, “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

This is looking to the termination of “the bondage of corruption” that will occur at Christ coming, where our bodies are finally redeemed at the resurrection (“the redemption of our body”). This is the day of redemption!
 
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mkgal1

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The redemption of our bodies!!!!
Look at the entire passage. Jesus prefaced that statement with this:


The Destruction of Jerusalem
(Matthew 24:15-25; Mark 13:14-23)

20But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country stay out of the city. 22For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Then maybe you believe Jesus misunderstood that (in His quoted words in Luke 21)? The process BEGAN at the cross - their sins were forgiven at the cross - but there's more to the process of atonement and was more prophecy left to fulfill.


The Return of the Son of Man
(Matthew 24:26-31; Mark 13:24-27)

25There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among the nations, bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the surging of the waves. 26Men will faint from fear and anxiety over what is coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.b 28When these things begin to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching [Gr. eggizō].

What was this talking about? What is the day approaching?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Look at the entire passage. Jesus prefaced that statement with this:


The Destruction of Jerusalem
(Matthew 24:15-25; Mark 13:14-23)

20But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country stay out of the city. 22For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.

It is not the preface of it! It's rather comes after He speaks about His climatic second coming. It is talking about the redemption of our bodies.

Luk 21:25-28 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

Remember, the disciples asked two questions in Luke 21:7 in response to our Lord’s words.

1.
“When shall these things be?”
2. “What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?”

Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the second coming.
 
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sovereigngrace

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No, you have this seriously wrong.

The destruction of the Temple and the whole ancient Judaic system in 70 AD was proving further that Jesus IS God (along with His resurrection). It goes back to many of the OT passages about God's judgement. Isaiah 19 is a good example of this. The phrase "riding on a swift cloud" carried a lot of meaning to the ancient Hebrew minds - that represented the power of "the LORD of Heaven's Armies"....and tied Jesus to that very God of judgement (as the same God) as He predicted the coming destruction. That's part of the importance of Him saying to the religious leaders, "From now on, you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven' (the sign of vindication that He is Messiah):

Isaiah 19:1-4 ~
This message came to me concerning Egypt:



Look! The LORD is advancing against Egypt,

riding on a swift cloud.


The idols of Egypt tremble.

The hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear.



2
I will make Egyptian fight against Egyptian—

brother against brother,

neighbor against neighbor,

city against city,

province against province.


3The Egyptians will lose heart,

and I will confuse their plans.

They will plead with their idols for wisdom

and call on spirits, mediums, and those who consult the spirits of the dead.

4I will hand Egypt over

to a hard, cruel master.

A fierce king will rule them,”


says the Lord, the LORD of Heaven’s Armies.​

The thesis of this thread has been totally reinforced by you and claninja. For that I thank you! Partial Preterism takes every promise the New Testament Church owns, every spiritual requirement it is meant to keep and every future hope it is meant to hold during the intra-Advent, and diverts it away from Christ to Titus and his appearing in AD70. That is why every genuine Christian should run from this error.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I believe it's a literal physical event. I believe we will experience God as Adam and Eve did.....going back to the original covenant between Adam & Eve and God.

Do you believe the future physical resurrection of the just and the unjust is a literal physical event or an ongoing spiritual experience?
 
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Salvation (atonement) arrived in fullness at the "Coming of the Son of Man" in 70 AD. That's why we see so many mentions of "our salvation is near" and "fulfillment of the ages" (Romans 13:11; 1 Corinthians 10:11; 1 Peter 4:7 and, thank you, Luke 21:28).

It is a sign of the compromise and error of Partial Preterism that no Partial Preterist will censure posts like this continually submitted by mkgal1, and cheered on by claninja. It is left to the rest of us to defend Christ and the cross. This fixation with the coming of Titus and AD70 is both troubling and unbiblical.

The book of Romans, which was written during the winter of AD 57–58, which is before coming up Titus in AD 70, testifies in Romans 5:11 “we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.”

All orthodox theologians, apart from obviously Preterists, believe, accept and rejoice in the fact that that Christ alone, and His finished work on the cross, secured our full atonement. The atonement was the only possible means of salvation for sinful man. In fact, Hebrews 9:22, which is before the coming up Titus in AD 70, declares, “without shedding of blood is no remission” for sin.

mkgal amazingly attributes the "fulness" of our salvation to the coming of Titus in AD 70. This is such a distortion of truth and a assault upon the cross-work.

When Jesus cried out “it is finished” it was! The evidence was immediately seen a few blocks down the road with the ripping of the temple curtain, in two, denoting that the final sacrifice for sin had been made, and the old covenant arrangement was now redundant. The grave could not hold Jesus, for He defeated the gave, ascended up into heaven, banished Satan, because the full penalty was paid for sin, and there were no more grounds to point the finger at God’s elect. Revelation 12:10 shows the consequence of this great event on Satan: “And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”

Satan had to be defeated in order that the Gospel could penetrate the nations. He that “deceiveth the whole world” could no longer do so. He was stripped of his previous power by the advance of the Gospel message. Previous to Satan's eviction, God was Israel's God, not the Gentiles God. Satan ruled the nations. But through this casting out of Satan, after man's penalty had been paid in full, he no longer had anything to accuse the elect over. It was indeed finished!

Hebrews 5:9 tells us: And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him."

It wasn't just redemption for time, but for eternity. Christ came to save sinners and He completed that perfectly, in that He secured eternal redemption for his elect through His death (Hebrews 5:8-9). In Hebrews 9:12 we learn “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” We therefore see that Christ secured a full pardon for his elect putting away sin in the elect sinner (Hebrews 9:26) procuring their complete salvation.

From Gods side the word atonement means to satisfy or compensate, therefore Christ’s vicarious atonement satisfied all the just demands of a thrice-holy God.

From mans point of view the word atonement means to reconcile, or to cause to be at one, therefore Christ’s vicarious atonement reconciled the elect to God.

1 Peter 1:9-10, which is before coming up Titus in AD 70, Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you.”

Nothing could be added to our salvation, apart from the redemption (or deliverance) of our corruptible bodies on the last day, when Jesus comes. 1 Peter 3:18, adds, "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust"
 
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mkgal1

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When Jesus cried out “it is finished” it was!
As we've discussed before, Jesus ALSO said He'd completed all the Father had sent Him to do - prior than the Cross, so should we dismiss what happened on the Cross as just "the work of the Romans" since we have Him recorded as saying He'd completed His work before the Cross?

John 17:4 ~ I glorified You on the earth, having completed the work that You have given Me that I should do.​
 
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sovereigngrace

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As we've discussed before, Jesus ALSO said He'd completed all the Father had sent Him to do - prior than the Cross, so should we dismiss what happened on the Cross as just "the work of the Romans"?

John 17:4 ~ I glorified You on the earth, having completed the work that You have given Me that I should do.​

He had, up until then. But He was long gone when the NT writers summed up the cross-work as the completion of our salvation.
 
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In the way I was taught to count, 20 and 25 preface 28.

Please list the Scriptures you believe describe a literal physical visible second coming of Christ event?

Do you believe the future physical resurrection of the just and the unjust is a literal physical event or an ongoing spiritual experience?
 
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sovereigngrace

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If you are an Amil, you are a partial preterist. If you believe any part, but not necessarily all, of the olivet discourse was fulfilled in the 1st century, you are a partial preterist.

I am a Partial Historist and a Partial Futurist!
 
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