The Holy Spirit dwells only in obedient believers

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Aaaah, yes, you mean the way Jesus treated the Pharasees!
And the way He said shake the dust off your feet and leave, if they won't listen/believe.
Yes, I get it ... thanks.

Jesus is GOD and He knew people's thoughts, and life. I believe the Bible teaches that we are not God to judge on the same level that He did. I am not saying that we cannot judge. Surely we can because Jesus said so (John 7:24); But as an example: Let's say one of us speaks sarcastically towards their opponent, if they were to do so, this is not the way. Only God can accurately do such a thing, my friend. For if one speaks a hurtful word to their opponent in an incorrect way, it can either push them further away, or make them feel angry, or stir them up to want to be even more sarcastic in return (Instead of being open to the warning and to look at the Scriptures).

I believe the shaking off the dust off your feet is merely involving the declaration of spreading the gospel message in evangelism efforts by going house to house. If they reject the gospel, then one is to declare to them that we are moving on from them (in a manner of speaking). This was to be a testimony against them that they did not hear the preacher. Their blood was not on the preacher's hands. In other cases: Paul tried to debate or reason with the Jews, too (Instead of just just giving them a one time message).

My major point is this:

Paul says, Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man (Colossians 4:6).
Peter says, be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness [gentleness] and fear (1 Peter 3:15).
Solomon says, The words of a wise man's mouth are gracious (Ecclesiastes 10:12).
Jesus says, "Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another." (Mark 9:50).
Solomon says, "A soft answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger." (Proverbs 15:1).

You said:
FYI, some "believers" choose to purposefully be disobedient.
And some are goats, and some are tares (weeds), and some are ...
I am not ignorant of Satan's devices.

But we don't know who will confess of their sins in the end and make it into God's kingdom. Some can realize the error of their ways shortly before they die. We do not know who is ultimately not going to make it. As long as men are alive, there is hope for them to repent and to change their ways. Thus we should pray for all men who are alive and speak to the truth to them in love, and do good unto them.

Jesus desires us to do even to love, and to good unto our enemies: "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; " (Matthew 5:44).

The good thing that we can agree with is that a "Secure in One's Grievous Sin View of Salvation" is not taught in Scripture. On this we agree and we can fight as soldiers of Christ side by side. On the other point is where I believe we disagree. It is my hope that you see where I am coming from one day, brother. Truth is not always an overnight process for us all (as I am sure you would agree).

Love, peace, and blessings be unto you today in the name of Jesus Christ.

Sincerely,

~J.


Side Note
:

"Secure in One's Grievous Sin View of Salvation" is popular nowadays.

Groups that push it:

#1. Majority in the Eternal Security camp.
#2. The Free Will Baptists or Those who Think That the Only Sin That Can Cause One to Fall Away is Rejecting Jesus or to Stop Believing in Him (Note: This why they will say that they reject Eternal Security, and yet they justify that they can sin and still be saved).
#3. Some Conditional Salvationists who is for Works as a part of Salvation (like David Servant who does not believe we die spiritually if we do not always confess of our serious sins).​

There are a lot of Conditional Salvationists who do not believe that works play a part in the salvation process (i.e. Sanctification). I think many of them redefine words like "works" and believe that you have to live holy and be fruitful but they see this as God working through them (Which is true to some extent). So I would not exactly say all of these kinds of believers are justifying sin or anything (Although they appear to deny that living holy or works in the Sanctification Process plays a part in our salvation). But again, just because a believer appears to reject Eternal Security does not mean they are not of the belief that they can sin and still be saved on some level.
 
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setst RE: It is by the Spirit of Christ living IN you that you are quickened.

Romans 8:9-10
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his. 10 If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Question: How do you receive the Spirit and its quickening power?

Answer: Only by an obedient Faith do you receive the Spirit and its quickening power.

John 7:37-39 (WEB) Bolding mine…
37 “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink!
38 He who believes in me,
as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.

Acts 5:32 We are His witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

John 14:15-17 (NIV)
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.

John 14:23
(NIV)
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Galatians 3:2 (NIV) Bolding mine… 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Galatians 3:5 (NIV) Bolding mine… 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

Galatians 3:13-14 (WEB) Bolding mine… 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,” 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ephesians 1:13-14 (WEB) 13 in whom you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a pledge of our inheritance, to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of his glory.

Now read the next two verses of Romans 8 after the verses you listed, and you will see that this quickening is dependent on your willingness to live by the Spirit God gave you to receive life. . .

Romans 8:12-13
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, WE have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 5:16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Galatians 5:24-25 (WEB)
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s also walk by the Spirit.

Galatians 6:8 (WEB) 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let US not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time WE will reap a harvest IF WE do not give up.

Therefore, regeneration is God’s work in those who, by faith, live and walk by His Spirit that indwells the believer. This is regeneration – only by faith - and results in Eternal Life if you do not give up.

As a New Creature in Christ by faith, YOU are responsible to:

• to put to death the misdeeds of the body to live: Romans 8:12-13
• offer ourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness: Romans 6:18-19
• to live by and walk by the Spirit we receive so we won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh: Galatians 5:16
• to sow to the Spirit to reap eternal life: Galatians 6:8-9
• to live by the Spirit to fulfill the requirements of the whole law: Romans 8:3-4
• to take off the old self and to put on new self: Ephesians 4:24-25; Colossians 3:9-10
• to abstain from reaping to the flesh so we may enter the Kingdom of God: 1 Corinthians 6:7-10; Ephesians 5:1-6
• to live as slaves to God by which we reap holiness leading to eternal life: Romans 6:22 . .

Therefore, God sanctifies us through His Spirit that indwells the believer, but only as the believer is diligent to walk and live by the Spirit God gave the believer - to sow to the Spirit.

The Spirit will not believe for you, but the Spirit will empower your faith to resist evil and to listen to and follow Christ Jesus. The Spirit is the Helper and Guide of the Faithful. Only as you Abide in Christ by faith will you bear the fruits of the Spirit.

Every person in the New Covenant believed in Jesus first before ever receiving the Spirit in them.

Blessings

Excellent post, brother. I really love it. Thank you. I just want to clarify: When you say that walking after the Spirit fulfills the righteousness of the whole law, would this be:

(a) Following the commands of Jesus and His followers in the New Testament? or:
(b) Following the commands of Jesus, and His followers in the New Testament and certain ceremonial Laws in the Law of Moses like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, the dietary laws, etc.?

I believe it is option A.
Only the Moral Law (like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) (i.e. Laws that we inherently know to do good without having the Law - Romans 2:14) has been carried over or repeated from the Old Law. No ceremonial laws (like the Sabbaths) or judicial laws have carried over from the 613 laws of Moses on into the New Covenant (that officially began with Christ's death).

I believe we fulfill the Old Law by walking after the Spirit and by loving our neighbor. This would not be by keeping the ceremonial laws, and judicial laws from the 613 Laws of Moses. I believe you hold to the same view, but I just want to make sure, my friend.

Anyways, may God bless you today, brother;
And thank you again for the wonderful post.

*Big macho man hug to you in the Lord*
 
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A_Thinker

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I love verse 16 where it says “...who will never leave you.” Sadly I really feel like the Holy Spirit did leave me years ago.
We live by FAITH, ... not by our feelings.

Trust in what He said ...

16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.
 
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Utter garbage. The only way we can obey the Lord is through the power of the Holy Spirit. 120 disciples obeyed the command to wait in Jerusalem. The Holy Spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost.

Those who are born again have the indwelling Holy Spirit. He does not come and go every time we sin or make a mistake. Yes, we can evict the Lord Jesus from the throne if we refuse to accept His Lordship. That is a different issue from some kind of perfect life that exists only in your imagination.

The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is simple. Ask. Luke 11:13. You want to do the work that God requires? Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." John 6:29.

I am delighted to say that God's love for me does not depend on my behaviour. God loved me before I was born again and He is love by nature.

I am far from advocating a sloppy, sinful lifestyle. We should live in a way that pleases God and that is a witness and testimony to unbelievers. But it is the weak, the needy, the broken, the spiritually poor who need the Holy Spirit the most. People like me. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit as the Life of Christ, I would be utterly lost. He who has the Son has the Life. I have the Son. And the Son has me.

Many do not accept the truth of what 1 John 1:9 says plainly. It says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. By the way you have spoken: It makes it appear like you believe you are forgiven even if you don't confess. Yet, 1 John 1:9 says otherwise. I trust Scripture and not the popular "Secure in One's Grievous Sin Salvationism" that is promoted in the majority of churches today. They preach a double message. One the one hand they say that they are not saved by what they do, and yet they contradict themselves and say they live in certain horrible grievous sins. Thus, as a result, no clear standard of morality is established. Granted, no man can save themselves without God. The Lord saves both in the Justification Process, and in the Sanctification Process (under our free will cooperation). God does the good work through the believer. So all good done in our life is on the account of God and all praise, and glory goes to Him.
 
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BCsenior

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Romans 8:28-30
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom He did foreknow, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover those whom He predestined, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom he justified, them Be also glorified."
So, you say God is responsible for BACs loving Him.
IMO, He is successful with some, but not with others.

Those He knows will be responsive to Him (re: loving Him) are in the above passage.

The NT is all about exactly WHO is being spoken to, spoken about, etc.
Many on Christian forums think ...
-- the positive verses are directed at them
-- the negative verses are directed at someone else
This is called positive thinking ... not accurate thinking, but positive thinking!
 
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Phil W

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"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them." (Ezekiel 36:27)

The Spirit of God isn't the prize people get for doing right, Hes the cause.
What about NT folks?
Peter said if you turn from sin, and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Spirit isn't a prize, but the result of our adhering to Peter's doctrine.
 
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BCsenior

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The Lord saves both in the Justification Process,
and in the Sanctification Process (under our free will cooperation).
God does the good work through the believer.
So all good done in our life is on the account of God and all praise, and glory goes to Him.
Most believers today have been deceived by Satan and the churches
into believing the BLUE is absolutely false!

Hopefully, the LORD will use you in helping those few who are OPEN to the Truth.

RE: the RED, isn't our free-will co-operation (the BLUE) important to recognize?
 
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Phil W

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I don't blame you for being wrong ... it's very difficult to prove the Truth about this!
Actually, it's almost as if one really needs to have this baptism to believe in it.
However, perhaps the Holy Spirit can get through to some people who are seekers.
He definitely cannot get through to those who are closed because they know it all.
Where are your scriptures that "make it wrong"?
Were my scriptures wrong?
 
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Phil W

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Aaaah, yes, you mean the way Jesus treated the Pharasees!
And the way He said shake the dust off your feet and leave, if they won't listen/believe.
Yes, I get it ... thanks.
FYI, some "believers" choose to purposefully be disobedient.
And some are goats, and some are tares (weeds), and some are ...
I am not ignorant of Satan's devices.
I'm surprised you call them "believers".
How about "so-called believers"?
 
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BCsenior

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Peter said
if you turn from sin, and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins, you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter states this in Acts 2:38 in response to many Jews' question ...
"What shall we do?", re: receiving the same experience
as the 120 had on the same day (the Day of Pentecost)!

The 120 received the baptism with the Holy Spirit (with the evidence of tongues).
Those of the 120 who were NOT already born-again were so at the same time.
This simultaneous experience has happened to thousands (millions?) around the world.
 
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May I be so unpopular as to remind everyone that ...
Hebrews 3 teaches us that disobedience proves unbelief
and unbelief caused disobedience.

But so what? ...
"Believers" still have the free will to be disobedient to Jesus' commandments.

And that just means ... these "believers" do NOT love Jesus (John 14)
and these "believers" are NOT Jesus' friends (John 15).
Because these "believers" do NOT obey Jesus' commandments! (John 14, John 15).

Are those "believers" who do NOT love Jesus going to heaven?
Are those "believers" who are NOT Jesus' friends going to heaven?
 
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Phil W

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“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)
Thank you for showing me the basis of your POV.
Somehow this thread became a "which came first...the Spirit or the fruit of the Spirit?"
Are not they, intrinsically, at the same time?
A better question is "What comes first...repentance and baptism or the giving of the gift of the Holy Ghost?"
And even that answer is skewed by the events at Cornelius' home.

I had faith before I received the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Before I was baptized for the remission of my past sins.
Before I went to a church that told me the truth.
I had faith in 1% of what I have faith in today.
Faith cometh by hearing the word of God, but the Spirit comes by obedience to Peter's exhortations on repentance and baptism.
I think it may be a mistake to confine God to any narrow parameter in what He can do with His own Spirit.
He can cause, by the Spirit, some to find faith, and He will give the gift of the Holy Spirit to those obedient to the word of God.

Is there really a wrong answer?
Be assured of this though, the Spirit of God will not reside in a polluted temple. (1 Cor 3:17)
 
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Phil W

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Dave L

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Thank you for showing me the basis of your POV.
Somehow this thread became a "which came first...the Spirit or the fruit of the Spirit?"
Are not they, intrinsically, at the same time?
A better question is "What comes first...repentance and baptism or the giving of the gift of the Holy Ghost?"
And even that answer is skewed by the events at Cornelius' home.

I had faith before I received the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Before I was baptized for the remission of my past sins.
Before I went to a church that told me the truth.
I had faith in 1% of what I have faith in today.
Faith cometh by hearing the word of God, but the Spirit comes by obedience to Peter's exhortations on repentance and baptism.
I think it may be a mistake to confine God to any narrow parameter in what He can do with His own Spirit.
He can cause, by the Spirit, some to find faith, and He will give the gift of the Holy Spirit to those obedient to the word of God.

Is there really a wrong answer?
Be assured of this though, the Spirit of God will not reside in a polluted temple. (1 Cor 3:17)
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)
 
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Dave L

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May I be so unpopular as to remind everyone that ...
Hebrews 3 teaches us that disobedience proves unbelief
and unbelief caused disobedience.

But so what? ...
"Believers" still have the free will to be disobedient to Jesus' commandments.

And that just means ... these "believers" do NOT love Jesus (John 14)
and these "believers" are NOT Jesus' friends (John 15).
Because these "believers" do NOT obey Jesus' commandments! (John 14, John 15).

Are those "believers" who do NOT love Jesus going to heaven?
Are those "believers" who are NOT Jesus' friends going to heaven?
Did Peter who denied Christ thrice go to heaven? David? The incestuous brother in Corinth? To name a few?
 
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