THE LAST DAYS!
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claninja
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And you conveniently left out when the redemption would drawn near. Not 40 years earlier as you are positioning, but when the events of the olivet discourse would begin to take place. So when nation would rise against nation and the armies would surround Jerusalem, then they would know their redemption was near.
Luke 21:28 Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near
Romans is believed to have been written anywhere from 55 to 58AD
Hebrews is believed to have been written anywhere from 63 to 64AD
James is believed to have been written anywhere from 62 to 69AD
1 Peter is believed to have been written anywhere from 60 to 65AD
Considering Jesus stated "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" (66-70ad), it is much more appropriate to say the "end is approaching" in the years 58 to 69 ad, then it would be in 33ad.
So again its clear, unlike my position, you have to change the actual definition of words to make your eschatology work. Any time someone has to change the definition of word or can't provide examples that actually back up there understanding of a word, it is red herring.
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Your reply to the children & parent journey is a good parallel to the points we continue to discuss.
It's interesting that you say it would be a lie, because in doing so you've drawn a line in the sand as to when near is no longer near. It's vague, subjective, varies from person to person (even even more so child to adult).
I think you're still massively missing the point of this analogy.
It's a very, very watered down example to use the child as our level of comprehension, and the adults as God's level of understanding and comprehension.
What's far to the child may be near to the adult.
The parent's are not lying, because there's no commonly agreed boundary for when near is no longer near. There might be ball parks, but no agreed specific.
It's clear that you define for yourself what can and can't be taken as literal, and yet you hang off this word near in very literal terms.
Your statement regarding the 1000 year reign is interesting, how do you believe it's been fulfilled ? Have we seen satan bound and imprisoned during that time ? How did we see the evidence of him being released? Has he therefore been flung into the lake of fire? If the 1000 years is done, where are the ('rest of') the dead that are to be raised in the second resurrection ?
I suspect that as I'm referencing Revelation in the above questions that you'll denounce it as 'apocalyptic language' as you had done earlier, and that it is symbolic and can't be taken literally.
And yet, you hang off one or two words as being literal, regardless of the fact that they are very unspecific and that we've already gone through an exercise in perspective with you missing the point.
I'll be sure to reply to your reply - 'soon'.
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sovereigngrace
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Matthew 12:22-29 records, “Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind (or) deo (Strong’s 1210) the strong man? And then he will spoil his house.”
Christ came to the strong man's house (this sinful world) and spiritually chained Satan. He is like a dog on a leash that will only harm those that foolishly get close to him. He has power and movement but it is restrained and limited since the ministry of Christ. The devil was subject to the purposes of God and hurt by the spiritual advance of the kingdom of God. This kingdom is still alive and active today. Souls are still being marvellously delivered from the power of Satan. The binding of the strong man continues today wherever the Gospel prevails.
The “strong man’s house” mentioned here is the kingdom of darkness. The “goods” that are "plundered" are people that were previously held in bondage to that kingdom. New Testament scholar George E. Ladd comments on Christ’s words about Satan: “his `goods' are men and women under his evil influence. However, he has not been left in peace to manage his affairs. A stronger, Jesus, has assailed and overcome him.”
Mark 3:11, 23-27 also records: “unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God ... And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind (or deo Strong’s 1210) the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.”
Significantly, the Greek word deo (Strong’s 1210) employed here is the exact same word used in Revelation 20 which means to bind in either a literal or a spiritual sense. This is what happened everywhere the kingdom of God was seen, the kingdom of darkness was suppressed. Moreover, at Calvary, Satan’s power to deceive the nations was spiritual bound or curtailed by the finished and victorious work of Christ. Revelation 20:2-3 states, “And he (Christ) laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and deo (or) bound him a thousand years (or a long time), And cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.”
Ok, let us establish a few absolutes here. (1) This is talking about a binding long before the Second Coming. It is speaking of a time 2,000 years ago. (2) This is referring to Satan and his minions – most theologians seem to be in agreement here. (3) This is talking about Satan's dwelling which relates to his abode (his “house”) and his possessions (his “goods”). (4) The binding is expressly spiritual and relates to the demonic realm. (5) This attributes the presence of the kingdom in all its power to the damaging and curtailing of the power of Satan's kingdom.
Jesus said in the corresponding passage in Luke 11:20-22, “if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.”
Here, Christ highlights the Sovereign power of the kingdom of God and reveals how the “strong man” – Satan – and his kingdom of devils can only be defeated by One that is stronger than them, namely Himself – the Son of God. As we examine the gospels we discover, Satan was stripped everywhere that Christ confronted him. The Lord entered the devil’s house and took authority over him and spoilt His goods. Previously, Satan's grip on the nations was so strong and so embedded that the truth of God's Word could not penetrate through. The devil overwhelmingly controlled the Gentile nations.
Christ said: “When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace.” This was a direct reference to the unchallenged power of Satan over the nations in the Old Testament. The vast territory of the Gentile nations was under his evil control. He governed the nations at will and operated in an unmolested environment – thus “his goods” were said to be “in peace.”
Satan’s wicked grip over the nations was loosened by the life, death and resurrection of Christ. Many millions were liberated by His message of hope and liberation. In fact, if anything was representative of Christ’s ministry it was the binding of the works of darkness and the deliverance of the afflicted. Christ defeated the power of Satan and all his minions with His sinless life, His vicarious death and His victorious resurrection and therefore wholly fulfilled His earthly assignment. The advance of the kingdom of God therefore has seen the pushing back of the devil’s frontline throughout the nations. It is not that he can’t still create havoc and deceive people; it is that he can’t hinder the triumphant advance of the Gospel throughout the world.
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claninja
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Again, God can tell us when things are near or far, as evidenced in scripture.
Daniel 8:26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been spoken is true. Now you must seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.”
Revelation 22:10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of prophecy in this book, because the time is near.
So God can tell us when things are far off.
If God can tell us when things are far off, as evidenced by scripture, it would be a lie for God to tell us something is near, when it in fact is not. Just as it would be a lie for a parent to tell their child they are almost at the destination, when in fact, they are not.
I take the definitions of words literally and parables/dreams/visions symbolically, which is a logical conclusion.
However, it would be illogical to change the definition of words while taking parables/dreams/visions as literal.
Revelation 20 is a vision, thus we must use scripture to interpret scripture
1.)The vision starts with satan being bound for 1,000 years so as to no longer deceive the nations
Revelation 20:1-3 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pita and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended.
This was fulfilled through the work of Jesus' ministry, death, resurrection, and ascension, Christ bound satan and destroyed his power and works.
Mark 3:27 Indeed, no one can enter a strong man’s house to steal his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can plunder his house.
Hebrews 2:14 Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil,
1 John 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.
2.) After the 1,000 years, Satan is released for a little while
Revelation 20:3 After that he must be released for a little while.
This was fulfilled upon Christ's ascension to heaven, when satan was cast out and his time was then short
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens,and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea; with great fury the devil has come down to you, knowing he has only a short time.”
John 12:31-33 Now judgment is upon this world; now the prince of this world will be cast out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” He said this to indicate the kind of death He was going to die.
Romans 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christe be with you.
3.) Those seated on the thrones were given authority to judge
Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed.
This was fulfilled at Christ's ascension when he sat down on the throne of the Father and sent the Spirit to begin the regeneration
Matthew 19:28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
4.) Those seated on thrones, those who are martyred, and those who refuse the beast, lived and reign with Christ. They are priests of God. This equals the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
This was fulfilled in Christ raising us from the dead while we were still dead in our trespasses. This was fulfilled in God making his people a kingdom of priests through Christ. The 2nd death can not hurt us
Ephesians 2:5 made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead in our trespasses.
1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.
John 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Thus i believe the vision revelation 20 points to the work of Christ, through His ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and sending of the Spirit on those born again (1st resurrection), that they may be a kingdom of priests unto God.
The 1,000 years is the fulfillment of the promise God made to David, that he would never lack a man to sit on the throne (Jeremiah 33:17). The 1,000 years are literal in regards to the literal time between Christ and David (1,000 years). The 1,000 years refers to the 1,000 years from the time of David to Christ in which Christ bound the strong man, and sat down on his Father's throne, and sent the spirit to regenerate and raise those who were dead in their trespasses, whom he would have become a kingdom of priests to God.
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