Questions About Hell

FineLinen

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FineLinen

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“For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope.”

The creature= ktisis=

The sum/ aggregate of things created.

Was made subject= hypotassō=

Arranged under/ to subordinate.

To put in subjection.

To vanity= mataiotēs=

Devoid of truth/ perverse/ depraved.

Not willingly= ou hekōn=

Involuntary.

Of one’s own will/ accord.

By reason of Him= dia hypotassō

The Author & Finisher of all.

Hope= elpis=

Expectation of good.

Joyful and confident expectation of salvation from the Author of hope.
 
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FineLinen

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It's a simple, yes or no question.

He believed in Hell, so much so, He taught about it, warning us on how to avoid it, through simple narrative.

So, Is He a liar?

Dear Smithy: The Lord Jesus Christ speaks of the 5 qualifications for "goat" status regarding "everlasting punishment/ aionios kolasis" according to Matt. 25. Can you state them for us?

Perhaps then you can post why the Saviour of the pas is NOT speaking to one clean and one unclean animal, or pure virgins and unchaste women? WHY?

The Sheep And The Goats - Jonathan Mitchell's Writings
 
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FineLinen

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For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Romans 1:20‭-‬23 NKJV

Dear JO: welcome to the wonderful world of ChristianForums. I trust your experience here will be one of enhancement. May His exceedingly wonderful love & grace be yours in abundance!
 
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FineLinen

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BNR post

"Do I think that eternal punishment is wrong?

No, I accept that God knows what is best, not me. Who am I to question God’s decisions?"

My heavenly Lord & Father has a single purpose for you & I!

It is good, and expresses exactly what a father of calibre brings to bear on ALL of his children, the good the bad & the ugly. This earthly father will lay his life down for any and all of them. He will partake of less so these children of his will not go without.

When correction is needed, this father knowing what is best for them, corrects with one single purpose, change and transformation!

Guess what?

The Father of all fathers has a Name. His beloved Son, the Lord Jesus Christ in the most intimate tone expresses it > > >

Abba (dearest Daddy).

Romans+8-15+The+Spirt+of+Adoption+green.jpg
 
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Saint Steven

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It is good, and expresses exactly what a father of calibre brings to bear on ALL of his children, the good the bad & the ugly. This earthly father will lay his life down for any and all of them. He will partake of less so these children of his will not go without.
I love that phrase, "a father of calibre". Reminds me of this.
The NIV 1985 (if I remember correctly) included this phrase now found in the Phillips paraphrase, "from whom all fatherhood... derives its name".

Ephesians 3:14-19 J.B. Phillips NT
When I think of the greatness of this great plan I fall on my knees before God the Father (from whom all fatherhood, earthly or heavenly, derives its name), and I pray that out of the glorious richness of his resources he will enable you to know the strength of the spirit’s inner re-inforcement—that Christ may actually live in your hearts by your faith. And I pray that you, firmly fixed in love yourselves, may be able to grasp (with all Christians) how wide and deep and long and high is the love of Christ—and to know for yourselves that love so far beyond our comprehension. May you be filled though all your being with God himself!
 
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FineLinen

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I love that phrase, "a father of calibre". Reminds me of this.
The NIV 1985 (if I remember correctly) included this phrase now found in the Phillips paraphrase, "from whom all fatherhood... derives its name".

Ephesians 3:14-19 J.B. Phillips NT
When I think of the greatness of this great plan I fall on my knees before God the Father (from whom all fatherhood, earthly or heavenly, derives its name), and I pray that out of the glorious richness of his resources he will enable you to know the strength of the spirit’s inner re-inforcement—that Christ may actually live in your hearts by your faith. And I pray that you, firmly fixed in love yourselves, may be able to grasp (with all Christians) how wide and deep and long and high is the love of Christ—and to know for yourselves that love so far beyond our comprehension. May you be filled though all your being with God himself!

Dear Saint: That my friend is an amazing expression of fact.

Our Father is the Father of all fathers.

from whom all fatherhood, earthly or heavenly, derives its name.
 
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Dear Saint: That my friend is an amazing expression of fact.

Our Father is the Father of all fathers.

from whom all fatherhood, earthly or heavenly, derives its name.

Fatherhood no doubt is a great gift, apart from the kids. It's a prime lesson in the jealous (protective) and steadfast love of God.
 
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Saint Steven

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Fatherhood no doubt is a great gift, apart from the kids. It's a prime lesson in the jealous (protective) and steadfast love of God.
Yes. And the primary thrust of my comment is that what we call fathering is a reflection of God the Father. Calling God "Father" is not merely a human observation ABOUT God, He is the model for what a father should be. This is a primary reason why Damnationists claims are so revolting. We don't see earthly fathers putting their children in ovens to punish them.
 
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FineLinen

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Yes. And the primary thrust of my comment is that what we call fathering is a reflection of God the Father. Calling God "Father" is not merely a human observation ABOUT God, He is the model for what a father should be. This is a primary reason why Damnationists claims are so revolting. We don't see earthly fathers putting their children in ovens to punish them.

Dear Steve: The entire miserable dogma has driven some individuals to insanity, or close to it. One of those is Roger Tutt who by God's marvellous intervention came to behold the glorious Hope of all hopes.

God is first & foremost the Father. His Name is ABBA, and can be trusted to do all things well.

Abba, dearest Daddy we love You!
 
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The fire of the Holy Spirit and the fires of Hell in the life after this life are two very different things though. One is meant to purify and make better here in this life, and the other is meant to torment in a certain kind of life some people go to after this life, or after this life is over, etc. They are two totally different kinds of fire with two totally different purposes, and very different effects/affects, etc.

See my thread going on here (below) if you want to... It might shine some light on the subject maybe, etc...?

Heaven or Hell...?

God Bless!
This is interesting.
In this classic Damnationist text below, Restorationism is added at the end.
After informing us in verse 48 that "the fire is not quenched", it says, "Everyone will be salted with fire." - vs 49 --- Everyone.

Mark 9:45-50
And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] 47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’
49 Everyone will be salted with fire.
50 “Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt among yourselves, and be at peace with each other.”
 
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Saint Steven

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I can't get enough of Brad Jerzak. Such great teaching.

Interview with Brad Jersak

Enjoy this interview with Brad Jersak where he discusses many questions like when salvation occurs, why did Jesus have to die, where did death come from, what did the early church believe about the after-life, etc.
 
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Saint Steven

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I can't get enough of Brad Jerzak. Such great teaching.

Interview with Brad Jersak

Enjoy this interview with Brad Jersak where he discusses many questions like when salvation occurs, why did Jesus have to die, where did death come from, what did the early church believe about the after-life, etc.
Of equal but lesser interest is the interviewer in this video. A perfect display of the brain-dead condition that Damnationism leaves us in. The guy is fighting his way through the fog. God bless him in his journey. (we come like a child)

And Brad is so great in this. He doesn't talk over the guy. He lets the interviewer stumble through and then answers when it is his turn to speak.
 
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Yes. And the primary thrust of my comment is that what we call fathering is a reflection of God the Father. Calling God "Father" is not merely a human observation ABOUT God, He is the model for what a father should be. This is a primary reason why Damnationists claims are so revolting. We don't see earthly fathers putting their children in ovens to punish them.

Yes, He is the source of the attributes and qualities we know as fatherhood. They're derived from Him, in a logical sense. I prefer to see them as gifts, because they're from the heart.

The wrong-headed way to configure it (I believe we're in agreement) is that man is reading back his fallen understanding of fatherhood on to God ie mankind is the author of the paternal nature.

That way of thinking lands you back with the 'unknown god' (the Pauline springboard at the Areopagus), and worse, denies the core principle of Christian theology: God the Father.

Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?
(Lk 11:11-13)
 
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This is interesting.
In this classic Damnationist text below, Restorationism is added at the end.
After informing us in verse 48 that "the fire is not quenched", it says, "Everyone will be salted with fire." - vs 49 --- Everyone.

Mark 9:45-50
And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] 47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’
49 Everyone will be salted with fire.
50 “Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt among yourselves, and be at peace with each other.”


In this case Jesus takes one of the most terrifying scriptures in the entire OT - Isaiah 66:24, the final line in that book - and reveals that there's more. The entire process entails suffering, healing and finally, peace. RESTORATION.
 
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Yes, He is the source of the attributes and qualities we know as fatherhood. They're derived from Him, in a logical sense. I prefer to see them as gifts, because they're from the heart.

The wrong-headed way to configure it (I believe we're in agreement) is that man is reading back his fallen understanding of fatherhood on to God ie mankind is the author of the paternal nature.

That way of thinking lands you back with the 'unknown god' (the Pauline springboard at the Areopagus), and worse, denies the core principle of Christian theology: God the Father.

Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?
(Lk 11:11-13)
Right.
The other thing that happens is a wrong perception of God as father, leads to earthly fathers behaving as they should not. The unfortunate outcome is for the children to learn a wrong view of God from their father's behavior. Typically, our view of God is formed by our earthly fathers. Ask someone to describe God; they probably just described their own earthly father.
 
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Right.
The other thing that happens is a wrong perception of God as father, leads to earthly fathers behaving as they should not. The unfortunate outcome is for the children to learn a wrong view of God from their father's behavior. Typically, our view of God is formed by our earthly fathers. Ask someone to describe God; they probably just described their own earthly father.

This is 100% my main issue with damnationism. It's the 'normative' parenting behaviours it teaches especially. History is littered with victims to this day, it's a vicious cycle. That's one big reason I believe it's a doctrine of demons.
 
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FineLinen

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Of equal but lesser interest is the interviewer in this video. A perfect display of the brain-dead condition that Damnationism leaves us in. The guy is fighting his way through the fog. God bless him in his journey. (we come like a child)

And Brad is so great in this. He doesn't talk over the guy. He lets the interviewer stumble through and then answers when it is his turn to speak.

Dear Steve: The fog that makes the interviewer, and all of us at one of the stages of our journey, must be met by the FogLifter who with one single word releases the deaf and blind.

Ephphatha
 
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FineLinen

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In this case Jesus takes one of the most terrifying scriptures in the entire OT - Isaiah 66:24, the final line in that book - and reveals that there's more. The entire process entails suffering, healing and finally, peace. RESTORATION.

Dear Shrewd: It is truly amazing how the Master can take the entire process of this broken and bruised world and ultimately bring full and complete restoration. It must be complete restoration, He does nothing partially!

The Destruction Of The Wicked=

The "Destruction" of the Wicked

Everlasting Destruction

Marvin R. Vincent: Note on ‘eternal destruction’ (Olethron Aionion) | Mercy Upon All
 
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