Interesting Study on the State of the Dead.

reddogs said:

Never heard of a 'Free Will Baptist', must be 'northern yankee types' as we only know Bible thumping, Brimestone and Fire breathing 'Southern Baptist' down here...

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there are Zion Missionary Baptists, Primitive Baptists, First Baptists, Independent Baptists, Seventh day Baptists.... so your statement at face value doesn't tell us very much.....

Yeah, lots of different baptists. Primitive baptists seem closer to old school calvinists then anything else I have ever run into.

JM

reddogs said:

Never heard of a 'Free Will Baptist', must be 'northern yankee types' as we only know Bible thumping, Brimestone and Fire breathing 'Southern Baptist' down here

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I had a boss about 30 years ago that was Free Will Baptist. Interesting denomination. They refute the OSAS doctrine of most other Baptist groups.

BTW - the “northern Baptists” are known as “American Baptist.” They split with the Southern branch over slavery in the pre Civil War years.

RC_NewProtestants said:

Interesting I wonder what Bible version this person is using I mean there are the quote marks and the verse reference but I don't know of any Bible that includes that last line: "For David is NOT ascended into the heavens"

It is a sad example of how people bear false witness. Oh the line is there in Acts but it is later and deals with a different statement. But for the unethical and those who merely want their ideas supported and don't care how it is done context often does not matter.



If you Red and Jim approve of such things I am disappointed in you.

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Where did Peter change subjects in Acts 8? His entire short sermon was addressing one subject, not many different ideas/themes. The same theme carries through from the beginning to the end of his sermon. So demonstrate from Acts 8 Peter's change of subject.

reddogs said:

Never heard of a 'Free Will Baptist', must be 'northern yankee types' as we only know Bible thumping, Brimestone and Fire breathing 'Southern Baptist' down here...

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Free Will baptists are the greatest !! They admit to and affirm Bible texts that do not support OSAS

RC_NewProtestants said:

Interesting I wonder what Bible version this person is using I mean there are the quote marks and the verse reference but I don't know of any Bible that includes that last line: "For David is NOT ascended into the heavens"

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Take your pick
Acts 2 - NASB
29 “Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. ... 34 For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
35 Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”’

Acts 2- NKJV
29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day....
34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’

RC_NewProtestants said:

It is a sad example of how people bear false witness.

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ok well... "now" it is, but you can always retract that statement and fix the problem.

Dave-W said:

I had a boss about 30 years ago that was Free Will Baptist. Interesting denomination. They refute the OSAS doctrine of most other Baptist groups.

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Yep! Nice to hear that every time I look into it they do very well.

SDAs are like "Free-Will-Seventh-Day-Baptists" in that regard

RC_NewProtestants said:

Interesting I wonder what Bible version this person is using I mean there are the quote marks and the verse reference but I don't know of any Bible that includes that last line: "For David is NOT ascended into the heavens"

It is a sad example of how people bear false witness. Oh the line is there in Acts but it is later and deals with a different statement. But for the unethical and those who merely want their ideas supported and don't care how it is done context often does not matter.



If you Red and Jim approve of such things I am disappointed in you.

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Isaiah 14:7-11 Good News Translation (GNT)
7 Now at last the whole world enjoys rest and peace, and everyone sings for joy. 8 The cypress trees and the cedars of Lebanon rejoice over the fallen king, because there is no one to cut them down, now that he is gone!

9 “The world of the dead is getting ready to welcome the king of Babylon. The ghosts of those who were powerful on earth are stirring about. The ghosts of kings are rising from their thrones. 10 They all call out to him, ‘Now you are as weak as we are! You are one of us! 11 You used to be honored with the music of harps, but now here you are in the world of the dead. You lie on a bed of maggots and are covered with a blanket of worms.’”

StormyOne said:

people believe Sunday is sacred? Define sacred and then show me where... if anything it's going in the other direction....

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Romans 14

Augistine:

"and hence the eighth Day also will have eternal blessedness, because that rest, being eternal, is taken up by the eighth day, not destroyed by it; for if it were thus destroyed, it would not be eternal. Accordingly the eighth day, which is the first Day of the week, represents to us that original life, not taken away, but made eternal."
CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 55 (St. Augustine)

"Chapter 13
23. The Lord's day, however, has been made known not to the Jews, but to Christians, by the resurrection of the Lord, and from Him it began to have the festive character which is proper to it. For the souls of the pious dead are, indeed, in a state of repose before the resurrection of the body, but they are not engaged in the same active exercises as shall engage the strength of their bodies when restored. Now, of this condition of active exercise the eighth Day (which is also the first of the week) is a type, because it does not put an end to that repose, but glorifies it. For with the reunion of the body no hindrance of the soul's rest returns, because in the restored body there is no corruption: for this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:53 Wherefore, although the sacramental import of the 8th number, as signifying the resurrection, was by no means concealed from the holy men of old who were filled with the spirit of prophecy (for in the title of Psalms [vi. and xii.] we find the words for the eighth, and infants were circumcised on the eighth day; and in Ecclesiastes it is said, with allusion to the two covenants, Give a portion to seven, and also to eight ); nevertheless before the resurrection of the Lord, it was reserved and hidden, and the sabbath alone was appointed to be observed, because before that event there was indeed the repose of the dead (of which the sabbath rest was a type), but there was not any instance of the resurrection of one who, rising from the dead, was no more to die, and over whom death should no longer have dominion; this being done in order that, from the time when such a resurrection did take place in the Lord's own body (the Head of the Church being the first to experience that which His body, the Church, expects at the end of time), the Day upon which He rose, the eighth Day namely (which is the same with the first of the week), should begin to be observed as the Lord's day. The same reason enables us to understand why, in regard to the Day of keeping the passover, on which the Jews were commanded to kill and eat a lamb, which was most clearly a foreshadowing of the Lord's Passion, there was no injunction given to them that they should take the Day of the week into account, waiting until the sabbath was past, and making the beginning of the third week of the moon coincide with the beginning of the third week of the first month; the reason being, that the Lord might rather in His own Passion declare the significance of that day, as He had come also to declare the mystery of the Day now known as the Lord's day, the eighth namely, which is also the first of the week. ... in order to connect its observance with the more sacred associations of this solemn season, and at the same time to prevent its being confounded with baptism in any way, have selected for this ceremony either the eighth Day itself, or that on which the third eighth Day occurs, because of the great significance of the number three in many holy mysteries."
CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 55 (St. Augustine)

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians

Chapter 9. Let us live with Christ

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death — whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master — how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, having come, raised them from the dead. Matthew 27:52
CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle to the Magnesians (St. Ignatius)

Romans 14:5-6 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
5 Some people might believe that one Day is more important than another. And others might believe that every Day is the same. Everyone should be sure about their beliefs in their own mind. 6 Those who think one Day is more important than other days are doing that for the Lord. And those who eat all kinds of food are doing that for the Lord. Yes, they give thanks to God for that food. And those who refuse to eat some foods do that for the Lord. They also give thanks to God.

Dialogue with Trypho (Justin Martyr)
Chapter 24. The Christians' circumcision far more excellent
Justin: Now, sirs, it is possible for us to show how the eighth Day possessed a certain mysterious import, which the seventh Day did not possess, and which was promulgated by God through these rites. But lest I appear now to diverge to other subjects, understand what I say: the blood of that circumcision is obsolete, and we trust in the blood of salvation; there is now another covenant, and another law has gone forth from Zion. Jesus Christ circumcises all who will — as was declared above— with knives of stone; Joshua 5:2; Isaiah 26:2-3 that they may be a righteous nation, a people keeping faith, holding to the truth, and maintaining peace. Come then with me, all who fear God, who wish to see the good of Jerusalem.
CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 10-30 (Justin Martyr)

On the Creation of the World (Victorinus)
"On the seventh Day He rested from all His works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former Day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord's Day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks." CHURCH FATHERS: On the Creation of the World (Victorinus)

Epistle of Barnabas
"Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth Day with joyfulness, the Day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens."
CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle of Barnabas

(Cyprian of Carthage) > Epistle 58
"For because the eighth day, that is, the first Day after the sabbath, was to be that on which the Lord should rise again, and should quicken us, and give us circumcision of the spirit, the eighth day, that is, the first Day after the sabbath, and the Lord's day, went before in the figure; which figure ceased when by and by the truth came, and spiritual circumcision was given to us." CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle 58 (Cyprian of Carthage)

NEW ADVENT: Search

During the sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s Day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The Day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection
(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)
Quotes from Early Church Fathers: the Sabbath, Lord's Day, and Worship - Apostles Creedsabbath-and-the-lords-day/

There are many other quotes.

DIDACHE: And on the Day of our Lord's resurrection, which is the Lord's day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent Him to us, and condescended to let Him suffer, and raised Him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that Day to hear the saving word concerning the resurrection...? (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. 7, pg. 423)

IGNATIUS: Be not deceived with strange doctrines, nor with old fables, which are unprofitable. For if we still live according to the Jewish law, we acknowledge that we have not received grace... If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death ...

EPISTLE OF THE APOSTLES.- I [Christ] have come into being on the eighth Day which is the Day of the Lord.

Irenaeus:

Lost Fragment #7
This [custom], of not bending the knee upon Sunday, is a symbol of the resurrection, through which we have been set free, by the grace of Christ, from sins, and from death, which has been put to death under Him. Now this custom took its rise from apostolic times, as the blessed Irenaeus, the martyr and bishop of Lyons, declares in his treatise On Easter, in which he makes mention of Pentecost also; upon which [feast] we do not bend the knee, because it is of equal significance with the Lord's day, for the reason already alleged concerning it.

Many more quotes
Early Christians always met on the First Day (Sunday) and never kept the sabbath!
Catholic Answerssabbath-or-sunday
5-Canright: The Lord's Day
The Lord's Day
Quotes from Early Church Fathers: the Sabbath, Lord's Day, and Worship - Apostles Creed
https://books.google.com/books?id=J...ay" is Sunday historical proof quotes&f=false
Early Church Fathers – About the Sabbath and the Lord’s Day


On the first Day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread,... Acts 20:7

Clearly in the quotes in the above post, Eight Day is the Lord's Day which is not the Sabbath day. The quotes make a strong contrast.

Matthew 28:1[ News That Jesus Has Risen From Death ] The Day after the Sabbath Day was the first Day of the week. That Day at dawn Mary Magdalene and the other woman named Mary went to look at the tomb.
Mark 14:12[ The Passover Meal ] It was now the first Day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread—the Day the lambs were killed for the Passover. Jesus’ followers came to him and said, “We will go and prepare everything for you to eat the Passover meal. Where do you want us to have the meal?”
Mark 16:2Very early on that day, the first Day of the week, the women were going to the tomb. It was very early after sunrise.
Mark 16:9[ Some Followers See Jesus ] Jesus rose from death early on the first Day of the week. He appeared first to Mary Magdalene. One time in the past Jesus had forced seven demons out of Mary.
Acts 20:18When they came, Paul said to them, “You know about my life from the first Day I came to Asia. You know the way I lived all the time I was with you.
1 Corinthians 16:2On the first Day of every week, each of you should take some of your money and put it in a special place. Save up as much as you can from what you are blessed with. Then you will not have to gather it all after I come.

read to here

yet the Good Shepherd raised lazareth from the dead.