The Holy Spirit dwells only in obedient believers

Bruce Leiter

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Of course, this is not my idea … it is what John 14 says!

John 14 (NLT):
15 If you love me, obey my commandments.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.
17 He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth.
The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him.
But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you.
18 No, I will not abandon you as orphans — I will come to you.
19 Soon the world will no longer see me, but you will see me. Since I live, you also will live.
20 When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father,
and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me.

And because they love me, my Father will love them.
And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.

23 All who love me will do what I say.
My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them.

24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.

John 14 says: Having the indwelling Holy Spirit is conditional
If you love Jesus, you will obey His commandments … 14:15
If you love Jesus, Father God will give you the Holy Spirit … 14:15-16
If you love Jesus, you will obey His commandments … 14:21
If you love Jesus, Father God will love you … 14:21
If you love Jesus, He will love you and reveal Himself to you … 14:21
If you love Jesus, you will do what He says … 14:23
If you love Jesus, Father God will love you … 14:23
If you love Jesus, Father God and Jesus (and the HS?) will come inside … 14:23

John 14 says most believers today do NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside
… simply because they are NOT obeying His commandments.
Does this remind you of the church of Laodicea in Revelation 3.

Okay, look at Ephesians 2:1-10, which sorts out Jesus' teachings here. In verses 1-3, Paul says that we are born dead to God. In verses 4-9, he says that God raises us from that death we are born with to life by grace through faith as his free gift (like Jesus' description of the new birth to Nicodemus in John 3:1-15). In verse 10, he gives the results in our lives (good works).
 
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BCsenior

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Okay, look at Ephesians 2:1-10, which sorts out Jesus' teachings here.
Please look at verse 1 ...
Paul is writing only to the "faithful" saints, not to the unfaithful ones!
Faithful saints are the obedient ones.

The NT is filled with warnings that BACs have responsibilities,
and their salvation is a co-operative effort ...
between them and the merciful God who saved them.
But, if they're not on board with His Plan of Salvation,
they have rejected it ... and will lose their salvation.
 
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Loversofjesus_2018

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One who has the Spirit desires to be obedient, and we strive to do so because we love Him. We aren't trying to buy His love with our obedience.
Desiring to be obedient isn’t the same thing as being obedient. If your obedient that means you do as your told. If don’t do as your told at all times you are not obedient. Right or am I missing something?
 
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Loversofjesus_2018

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Show us where anyone even indicate they are buying their salvation.

The OP has made it perfectly clear the bible says we *must* be obedient, and that is the reason we are. So again, show us why you think it's because we are trying to buy salvation, and proof that is a fact.

We all know it cannot be shown we who try to be obedient, are trying to buy salvation. Meaning there must be another reason for the constant charges of such. The only reason for the charge is in attempt to make obedience a non issue, and the attempt to make it a non issue is because of the want to not be obedient.

If you disagree with that then lets step back to the request for proof. I mean the OP has proven our, the real reason right there, you can see it with your own eyes, now may we see your proof we are trying to buy salvation? If you cannot provide that, you haven't a leg to stand on with your argument. Gotta love good ol' down home logic. :)
Are people ever obedient fully or just some of the time? Being obedient some or most of the time isn’t being obedient. Does scripture say we need to be obedient just some of the time? This is really confusing to me so I’d appreciate any help. Thanks
 
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BCsenior

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Are people ever obedient fully or just some of the time? Being obedient some or most of the time isn’t being obedient. Does scripture say we need to be obedient just some of the time? This is really confusing to me so I’d appreciate any help. Thanks
IMO, it's all about having the correct and acceptable heart attitude before the LORD.
Which means trying our best, repenting when we screw up, etc.
Jesus says we must be perfect, but He's always asking us to shoot for the moon.
Which just goes back to the first sentence.
 
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Bruce Leiter

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Please look at verse 1 ...
Paul is writing only to the "faithful" saints, not to the unfaithful ones!
Faithful saints are the obedient ones.

The NT is filled with warnings that BACs have responsibilities,
and their salvation is a co-operative effort ...
between them and the merciful God who saved them.
But, if they're not on board with His Plan of Salvation,
they have rejected it ... and will lose their salvation.

Do you mean that all his commands in chapters 4-6 are for the faithful saints? Then, why does God use him to give them commands? All of us Christians, are unfaithful in some ways, because we still have sinful natures. That's why you and I need to be commanded.

Are you saying that you perfectly obey God? How about Paul's commands in 1 Thess. 5:16-18. He commands us because our faithfulness falls short because we're still imperfect with sinful tendencies in our sinful natures.

That's why Paul's letters are for every church member because we all have unfaithful times
.
 
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Bruce Leiter

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IMO, it's all about having the correct and acceptable heart attitude before the LORD.
Which means trying our best, repenting when we screw up, etc.
Jesus says we must be perfect, but He's always asking us to shoot for the moon.
Which just goes back to the first sentence.

Yes, when the Holy Spirit gives us our new birth, God has rescued us. The result is our journey paved by Jesus toward final perfection at the end of our life. All believers are at different points on that path. We may have a correct heart attitude intellectually grounded in the Scriptures but harbor anger in our hearts. Or we may have a good emotional heart attitude, but we might be making decisions that make us go astray. In my 77 years, I have experienced all of these possibilities.
 
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Loversofjesus_2018

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IMO, it's all about having the correct and acceptable heart attitude before the LORD.
Which means trying our best, repenting when we screw up, etc.
Jesus says we must be perfect, but He's always asking us to shoot for the moon.
Which just goes back to the first sentence.
I guess it’s about reading between the lines but reading between the lines is the reason there are so many different beliefs among Christians it seems. I agree you can only do your best but that’s my own belief that’s not what scripture says. Jesus said be perfect and be obedient. I’m neither of those things. Now I can say he didn’t mean it the way he said it but what gives me the right to do such a thing? This has always been confusing for me lol. At what point am I trying to change scripture if I keep saying Jesus didn’t mean what he said?
 
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SeventyOne

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Desiring to be obedient isn’t the same thing as being obedient. If your obedient that means you do as your told. If don’t do as your told at all times you are not obedient. Right or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something.
 
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Are people ever obedient fully or just some of the time? Being obedient some or most of the time isn’t being obedient. Does scripture say we need to be obedient just some of the time? This is really confusing to me so I’d appreciate any help. Thanks

LOL..Don't be silly

Of course it is, when we are obedient we are being obedient, when we are not, at that very moment, we are not, and are thankful God made sacrifice for that, and forgiveness is available. We repent, and move on. Now go read the OP again and see there was nothing said about having to be perfect, and if you've read your bible you'd know better.

This stuff is so elementary that all your telling me is you're being contrary, and in desperation, for lack of any real defense, you'll be throwing any silly thing you can at Obedience. TIP, you aren't doing very well.

The things they come up with when we take their "You're buying salvation" defense away. :)
 
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Curtis.Hilliker

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The irony here is that that verse of the Holy Spirit never leaving us is quoted as part of an argument that the Spirit will leave us if we are disobedient.

Where exactly does it say that again?
 
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Of course, this is not my idea … it is what John 14 says!

John 14 (NLT):
15 If you love me, obey my commandments.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.
17 He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth.
The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him.
But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you.
18 No, I will not abandon you as orphans — I will come to you.
19 Soon the world will no longer see me, but you will see me. Since I live, you also will live.
20 When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father,
and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me.

And because they love me, my Father will love them.
And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.

23 All who love me will do what I say.
My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them.

24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.

John 14 says: Having the indwelling Holy Spirit is conditional
If you love Jesus, you will obey His commandments … 14:15
If you love Jesus, Father God will give you the Holy Spirit … 14:15-16
If you love Jesus, you will obey His commandments … 14:21
If you love Jesus, Father God will love you … 14:21
If you love Jesus, He will love you and reveal Himself to you … 14:21
If you love Jesus, you will do what He says … 14:23
If you love Jesus, Father God will love you … 14:23
If you love Jesus, Father God and Jesus (and the HS?) will come inside … 14:23

John 14 says most believers today do NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside
… simply because they are NOT obeying His commandments.
Does this remind you of the church of Laodicea in Revelation 3.

And LOVE is from God. So how do you love God and your neighbor if you have not been born again? Being born from above is that special spiritual transformation; from having a dead spirit which was once void of God to having been made alive IN CHRIST. Do you not know that you are the Temple of the Holy Spirit?
He has drawn us to himself. He chose us, sanctified us and called us to be obedient ... which is to love.
Many people attend Church who really don't believe. They go through the motions, show up on Sunday, put on smile, but then return to their worldly lives throughout the rest of the week.
The Holy Spirit confirms His presence. And He changes us. If cha.ge is not evjdent in your life, then I would queation your faith.
THE Holy Spirit baptizes us, guides us, changes us, convicts us of sin, loves us, edifies us, bears witness to Jesus and glorifies Him, gives gifts, promises, fellowships with us, sanctifies us, justifies us and more. He is doing the work in us. If one is not aware of any of this going on, then He is not a believer and never was from the start. As scripture states, some seed is planted in shallow soil and does not grow roots.
I think the only believer is one who is in Christ and by their fruit you will know them. So what is the fruit of the Spirit?
Love, peace, joy, patience, goodness, kindness,faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. These godly attributes grow and take a lifetime. Some are on the beginning of their journey of growth and some are mature - but they are all saved.
 
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Loversofjesus_2018

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LOL..Don't be silly

Of course it is, when we are obedient we are being obedient, when we are not, at that very moment, we are not, and are thankful God made sacrifice for that, and forgiveness is available. We repent, and move on. Now go read the OP again and see there was nothing said about having to be perfect, and if you've read your bible you'd know better.

This stuff is so elementary that all your telling me is you're being contrary, and in desperation, for lack of any real defense, you'll be throwing any silly thing you can at Obedience. TIP, you aren't doing very well.

The things they come up with when we take their "You're buying salvation" defense away. :)
So your saying when Jesus said keep my commandments he didn’t mean it. He just meant try your best?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Of course, this is not my idea … it is what John 14 says!

John 14 (NLT):
15 If you love me, obey my commandments.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.
17 He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth.
The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him.
But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you.
18 No, I will not abandon you as orphans — I will come to you.
19 Soon the world will no longer see me, but you will see me. Since I live, you also will live.
20 When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father,
and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me.

And because they love me, my Father will love them.
And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.

23 All who love me will do what I say.
My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them.

24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.

John 14 says: Having the indwelling Holy Spirit is conditional
If you love Jesus, you will obey His commandments … 14:15
If you love Jesus, Father God will give you the Holy Spirit … 14:15-16
If you love Jesus, you will obey His commandments … 14:21
If you love Jesus, Father God will love you … 14:21
If you love Jesus, He will love you and reveal Himself to you … 14:21
If you love Jesus, you will do what He says … 14:23
If you love Jesus, Father God will love you … 14:23
If you love Jesus, Father God and Jesus (and the HS?) will come inside … 14:23

John 14 says most believers today do NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside
… simply because they are NOT obeying His commandments.
Does this remind you of the church of Laodicea in Revelation 3.
We should read the entire chapter. The Apostles were not getting it. They could not understand "if You know me you know My Father" or "the Father is in Me and I am in my Father". Without believing in this "commandment" the Holy Spirit would have no way to enter them. I just want to clarify this so we don't widen this into a "works salvation" error.
Blessings
 
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