The Two Gospels of the New Testament 12.03.2019

Ed Parenteau said:

There is a third temple and this is it and nothing is going to tear it down or make it obsolete.

1 Peter 2 4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6For this is contained in Scripture:
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”

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Amen, and amen! Totally agree!!!

sovereigngrace said:

Please give me all your Scripture to support the rebuilding of a third temple?

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Dan.9:27 In order for the price of the people to come can end the sacrificial system in the end days- there has to be a temple.

Matt.24:15 In order for the abomination of desolation to stand in the holy place shortly before Jesus' return there has to be a temple.

2 Thess. 2:3-4 In order for the son of perdition to sit in the temple in the last days- there has to be a temple.

Rev. 11;1-2 jOHN SEES A FUTURE TEMPLE THAT THE GENTILES will trample the outer court for 3 1/2 years This also requires a rebuilt temple!

These four clear passages shoud be enough to convince even the most devout allegorist.

nolidad said:

Dan.9:27 In order for the price of the people to come can end the sacrificial system in the end days- there has to be a temple.

Matt.24:15 In order for the abomination of desolation to stand in the holy place shortly before Jesus' return there has to be a temple.

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This is already fulfilled.

2 Thess. 2:3-4 In order for the son of perdition to sit in the temple in the last days- there has to be a temple.

Rev. 11;1-2 jOHN SEES A FUTURE TEMPLE THAT THE GENTILES will trample the outer court for 3 1/2 years This also requires a rebuilt temple!

These four clear passages shoud be enough to convince even the most devout allegorist.

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This is talking symbolically of the Church near the end. There is only 1 temple for now and eternity - Christ and His people.

sovereigngrace said:

This is already fulfilled.



This is talking symbolically of the Church near the end. There is only 1 temple for now and eternity - Christ and His people.

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No it hasn't been fulfilled. Close doesn't count in prophecy. Only in horseshoes.

So you believe the son of perdition indwells believers near the end? WOW!

It is too bad you have been poisoned against Gods Word so you can't see the trees for the forest!
Nowhere in Gods Word does God say that He honors the sacrifices the Jews will re-establish in the third temple. He just says that they will establish a 3rd temple.

And nothing in the grammar or language suggests we should take the Thess. and REv. passage symbolically. YOu would think the allegorists would have learned when Israel became a nation again as prophesied in 1948 that they would take Gods prophecies to Israel more literally, but instead wolves came up with slick snake-oil excuses why Israel restored is a coincidence and has nothing to do with Scripture!

nolidad said:

No it hasn't been fulfilled. Close doesn't count in prophecy. Only in horseshoes.

So you believe the son of perdition indwells believers near the end? WOW!

It is too bad you have been poisoned against Gods Word so you can't see the trees for the forest!
Nowhere in Gods Word does God say that He honors the sacrifices the Jews will re-establish in the third temple. He just says that they will establish a 3rd temple.

And nothing in the grammar or language suggests we should take the Thess. and REv. passage symbolically. YOu would think the allegorists would have learned when Israel became a nation again as prophesied in 1948 that they would take Gods prophecies to Israel more literally, but instead wolves came up with slick snake-oil excuses why Israel restored is a coincidence and has nothing to do with Scripture!

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I believe a false fleshly antichrist will infiltrate the Church and function as if he is God.

sovereigngrace said:

I believe a false fleshly antichrist will infiltrate the Church and function as if he is God.

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But each individual member of the church is the temple of God! And you declared that the Thess. passage is the church which is the individual members who are each the temple of God. So by you rlogic, the Antichrist will possess all individual believers. He doesn't enter a building but enters THE temple which you declared to be the body of Christ!

Charlie24 said:

Do you believe that Abel knew to sacrifice an animal and not know why?

The scripture doesn't tell us how he knew, but we know that he did know exactly what to do.

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Hi and Abel learned from Adam as Gen 3:21 reveals !

And Gen 3:21 reads Unto Adam also to his n wife did the Lord make coats of SKINS , and CLOTHED them !!

This this is what is called ATONEMENT and was also given to Israel !!

The Hebrew word MAKE / ASAH in Gen 3:21 is in the QAL which means a SIMPLE ACTION .

and the ASPECT is in the IMPERFECT TENSE !

The Hebrew word AND CLOTHED THEM / LABAH is also in the HEB IMPERFECT TENSE and ATONEMENT began in Genesis and the SINS committed will be paid for as written in Heb 9:15 .

Also notice in Gen 3:7 they clothed them self with FIG LEAVES as all sinners try to COVER there SINS !!

Also I believe the FIG LEAVES represent Israel .

dan p

The Hebrew word AND CLOTHED THEM / LABASH

Terral said:

Greetings to All: This Mystery topic is dedicated to building a strong doctrinal foundation by carefully examining the differences between the Gospel of the Kingdom; and our Word of the Cross gospel message for today. God gathers members to the Kingdom Bride; (John 3:29) through the first gospel described below and members to the Mystery Body of Christ; through Paul’s Gospel

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JL: [Rms2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.] k

Paul is saying, a true Jew is one circumcised of the heart=inwardly, being born again by water and of the Spirit Jn3:5. A natural Jew is outwardly circumcised of the flesh, not saved, as is an uncircumcised of the heart Gentile.

[Col2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.] k

[Rms12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.]k
[Gal3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.] k

[Eph2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.] k

[Rms11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2-4 …. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6-8 …. 9 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 10-19 …. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 …. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?] k

[Gal3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.] k

There is only one good olive tree and kingdom by which humanity, without distinction, whether Jew or Gentile, male or female must belong to be saved. And they are saved by circumcision of the heart= water baptism.

Hb13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.] k

[Hb11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.11-12 ….13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.] k
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"This Mystery topic "? How did you come up with mystery?

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nolidad said:

Dan.9:27 In order for the price of the people to come can end the sacrificial system in the end days- there has to be a temple.
Matt.24:15 In order for the abomination of desolation to stand in the holy place shortly before Jesus' return there has to be a temple.
2 Thess. 2:3-4 In order for the son of perdition to sit in the temple in the last days- there has to be a temple.
Rev. 11;1-2 jOHN SEES A FUTURE TEMPLE THAT THE GENTILES will trample the outer court for 3 1/2 years This also requires a rebuilt temple!
These four clear passages shoud be enough to convince even the most devout allegorist.

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JL: The Church on earth is that Temple. One third of the Church shall apostatize, valid bishops and priest will support anti-Christ. He will set in that temple=church claiming to be God. The sacrifice of Mass will be stopped.

[Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.]

That prophecy and sacrifice is fulfilled in the sacrifice of the Mass=Lord’s supper, offered daily by every priest throughout the world, from the rising to setting of the sun.

That pure offering=sacrifice, this is my body, this is my blood. Christ is not sacrificed again, but the fruit, His body and blood, of His once done sacrifice of the cross is made present to His people. Animal sacrifices had to be clean only Christ our sacrifice, is that pure offering from the rising to the setting of the sun in every place.

[Rv6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.]

[Hb 7: 17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.]

[Hb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.]

[Hb8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. 3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer[/B][/b]. 4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.]

[Hb9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:]

Christ is not just sitting and watching events, he is our High Priest interceding for us with the Father. Bringing to remembrance to the Father and to us that same once for all sacrifice of the lamb on the Cross. This is how he exercises His unique Mediatorship. Making His body and blood present to us at Mass, that we might eat our Passover Lamb. Just as the Israelites ate their Passover lamb. [Jn 6:55 My flesh is meat indeed, my blood is drink indeed.]

[]Malacahi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in Every Place incense shall be offered unto my name, and A Pure Offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.]

The prophecy of Malachi says Gentiles will offer incense and make a pure offering (sacrifice) to the Lord's Name from the rising to setting of the sun in every place. That is fulfilled in the Catholic Church as that same once for all sacrifice of the cross is made present at Mass, which is celebrated by priests, in every parish daily in all places of the world. The Orthodox Church has this same pure offering also.

The fruit, of the the Tree of Life=Cross, our Passover Lamb is eaten at mass. [Hb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

[1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.]

[Hb9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:]

Better Sacrifices, plural, because that once for all sacrifice of Christ is made sacramentally present to us every time mass is offered. This is my body, this is my blood, with these words the living memorial sacrifice is accomplished by the sacramental separation of body and blood showing forth Christ’s death, till He comes again.

[1Cor10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. 21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.] Paul views the Lord’s supper, as a sacrificial offering to God.

[Hb3:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.]

An altar is a table of sacrifice.

[Hb7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.]

[Hb12:22 but ye are come unto mount sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.]

We come in worship to Mount Sion, heavenly Jerusalem, offering the sacrifice of the mass to the Father. Not with the body and blood of animals. [1Pt1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:] [Hb10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;] Thru Christ and prayer we have access to all in Heavenly Jerusalem, to angles, to the church in heaven (assembly of the first born, saints) to God the judge, to spirits (souls) of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator, to the blood. We have access to all in heaven when in worship or prayer. There is no longer any dividing walls or veil separating us from the Holy of Holies.

[Eph2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;]

The Temple had walls separating Jews and Gentiles. [Mk15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.]

[Hb10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;]

[Lk22:28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. 29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; 30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.] Catholics can eat and drink at the Lord’s table daily, many do, most especially on, the Lord’s day, Sunday.

[Ps23: Thou prepares a table before me in the presents of my enemies.]

[As often as the sacrifice of the cross by which “Christ our Pasch is sacrificed” (1Cor5:7) is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out. Jn12:32 if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself. Lumen Gentium, The mystery of the Church.]
[Dan8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.]k
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Dan Perez said:

in Gal 2:14 we see Peter still is still trying to get Gentiles to adopt Jewish customes and RITES , and we see That Peter is a LAW of Moses KEEPER at the same time that Paul is preaching GRACE GOSPEL , Gal 1:11 and 12 . dan p

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JL: Not so Dan, in fact before this incident, at the council of Jerusalem, Peter gave the definitive decision on Gentiles in Acts15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.] We=Jews, they=Gentiles, Peter believed and taught both are saved the same way by grace, as Paul also taught, one gopsel.

Peter was the first to preach Christ to the Gentile Cornelius, his household and friends, bringing them into the Church by baptism without circumcision. See links Acts10:1-48 Bible Gateway passage: Acts 10 - King James Version

Acts11:1-30 Bible Gateway passage: Acts 11 - King James Version

[Gal2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled [joined the hypocrisy] likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation [hypocrisy]. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.]k

Peter was not only a bad example but hypocritical in withdrawing from Gentiles, not upholding his own teaching, he knew better as we see at the top of my post in Acts15:11, also the above 2 links and following. Peter brought the first Gentiles into the Church.

Notice above in Gal2:14, Paul saw they were not walking according to the truth of the gospel. Who did Paul see not following the gospel truth? Peter and those other Jews who also withdrew from the Gentiles including Barnabas. Paul didn’t say my gospel truth or your gospel truth Peter but the gospel truth. Why would Paul be angry with Peter for withdrawing from Gentiles unless they preached the same gospel?

In Gal2:15-16 Paul said, We who are Jews by nature, meaning Peter and those other Christian Jews, knowing a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith. Even we=Jewish Christians, have believed in Jesus, that we be justified by faith not by works of the law.

Below in Acts15:5-6 at the council of the whole church, whole=leadership, they considered the problem of circumcision and the law of Moses.

[Acts15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.]k

Above Acts15:5 A sect of Pharisee believers=Christians was the origin of the false teaching that Gentiles must be circumcised and follow the law. They went out on their own authority apart from the Church with a false gospel, teaching a tradition of men causing division in the one body of Christ. The Church of Jerusalem taught no such thing, as we see later in Acts15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Acts15:6 we see there was much disputing about what to do. In Acts15:7 Peter rose recounting how Gentiles by his mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. Notice, Peter said the gospel not the Gentile gospel our Jewish gospel In Acts15:8-9 Peter tells us God bare witness giving the Gentiles the Holy Ghost, by faith, putting no difference between Gentiles and us=Jews. Purifying their=Gentile hearts by faith.

In Acts15:11 Peter says, But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.]. We=Jews, they=Gentiles. Clearly the twelve, as did Paul, taught both Jew and Gentiles are saved by grace, by faith=one gospel=one body=Church.

Below, after Peter spoke the debate was over and they listened to Barnabas and Paul. Continuing in Acts15.

[Acts15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Notice Acts15:15 James tells us the words of the prophets agree with what Peter said. In verse16 the prophecy tells us, I=God will build again the tabernacle=kingdom of David and build again the ruins thereof. Verse17 tells us why, that the residue of men might seek the Lord and all the Gentiles. There is only one tabernacle=kingdom of David to be restored or regenerated and one people of God, whether Jewish Christian or Gentile Christian one household of God. Continuing with Acts15.

Acts15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence [judgement] is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.]k

If not the same Church and Gospel, why would Paul be so compliant with James’ pastoral compromise for those congregations having problems with mixed Jews and Gentile Christians? If not one gospel, why would they be in the same congregation? Wouldn’t that mean they must have two entirely different sermons one for Jewish Christians one for Gentile Christians.

[Acts15: 22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia. 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. 30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle: 31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.]k

Notice beginning in Acts15:24 When a council speaks on matters of faith and morals, for the whole Church, it speaks with Christ’s authority, by the Holy Spirit, verse28 above.

[Mt18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.]k

[Gal1:22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ: 23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. 24 And they glorified God in me.]k
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JLHargus said:

JL: Not so Dan, in fact before this incident, at the council of Jerusalem, Peter gave the definitive decision on Gentiles in Acts15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.] We=Jews, they=Gentiles, Peter believed and taught both are saved the same way by grace, as Paul also taught, one gopsel.

Peter was the first to preach Christ to the Gentile Cornelius, his household and friends, bringing them into the Church by baptism without circumcision. See links Acts10:1-48 Bible Gateway passage: Acts 10 - King James Version

Acts11:1-30 Bible Gateway passage: Acts 11 - King James Version

[Gal2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled [joined the hypocrisy] likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation [hypocrisy]. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.]k

Peter was not only a bad example but hypocritical in withdrawing from Gentiles, not upholding his own teaching, he knew better as we see at the top of my post in Acts15:11, also the above 2 links and following. Peter brought the first Gentiles into the Church.

Notice above in Gal2:14, Paul saw they were not walking according to the truth of the gospel. Who did Paul see not following the gospel truth? Peter and those other Jews who also withdrew from the Gentiles including Barnabas. Paul didn’t say my gospel truth or your gospel truth Peter but the gospel truth. Why would Paul be angry with Peter for withdrawing from Gentiles unless they preached the same gospel?

In Gal2:15-16 Paul said, We who are Jews by nature, meaning Peter and those other Christian Jews, knowing a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith. Even we=Jewish Christians, have believed in Jesus, that we be justified by faith not by works of the law.

Below in Acts15:5-6 at the council of the whole church, whole=leadership, they considered the problem of circumcision and the law of Moses.

[Acts15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.]k

Above Acts15:5 A sect of Pharisee believers=Christians was the origin of the false teaching that Gentiles must be circumcised and follow the law. They went out on their own authority apart from the Church with a false gospel, teaching a tradition of men causing division in the one body of Christ. The Church of Jerusalem taught no such thing, as we see later in Acts15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Acts15:6 we see there was much disputing about what to do. In Acts15:7 Peter rose recounting how Gentiles by his mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. Notice, Peter said the gospel not the Gentile gospel our Jewish gospel In Acts15:8-9 Peter tells us God bare witness giving the Gentiles the Holy Ghost, by faith, putting no difference between Gentiles and us=Jews. Purifying their=Gentile hearts by faith.

In Acts15:11 Peter says, But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.]. We=Jews, they=Gentiles. Clearly the twelve, as did Paul, taught both Jew and Gentiles are saved by grace, by faith=one gospel=one body=Church.

Below, after Peter spoke the debate was over and they listened to Barnabas and Paul. Continuing in Acts15.

[Acts15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Notice Acts15:15 James tells us the words of the prophets agree with what Peter said. In verse16 the prophecy tells us, I=God will build again the tabernacle=kingdom of David and build again the ruins thereof. Verse17 tells us why, that the residue of men might seek the Lord and all the Gentiles. There is only one tabernacle=kingdom of David to be restored or regenerated and one people of God, whether Jewish Christian or Gentile Christian one household of God. Continuing with Acts15.

Acts15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence [judgement] is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.]k

If not the same Church and Gospel, why would Paul be so compliant with James’ pastoral compromise for those congregations having problems with mixed Jews and Gentile Christians? If not one gospel, why would they be in the same congregation? Wouldn’t that mean they must have two entirely different sermons one for Jewish Christians one for Gentile Christians.

[Acts15: 22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia. 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. 30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle: 31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.]k

Notice beginning in Acts15:24 When a council speaks on matters of faith and morals, for the whole Church, it speaks with Christ’s authority, by the Holy Spirit, verse28 above.

[Mt18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.]k

[Gal1:22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ: 23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. 24 And they glorified God in me.]k
KJV Biblegateway

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Hi and in Gal 2:7 and 8 , that Paul was entrusted with THE GOSPEL OF THE UNCIRCUNCISION , explain UNCIRCUCSION ??

Then explain what CIRCUNCISION means ?

We see that in verse , Peter was given APOSLTESHIP of CIRCUMCISION or to Jews !!

Paul was gospel of THE CIRCUNCISION or to Gentiles given to Paul !!

So who is the WE and who are the THEY in Acts 15:11 !!

So how are Jews SAVED TODAY , read 2 Cor 3 :10-18 !!

dan p

Dan: In Gal 2:7 and 8 , that Paul was entrusted with THE GOSPEL OF THE UNCIRCUNCISION , explain UNCIRCUCSION ?? Then explain what CIRCUNCISION means ? We see that in verse , Peter was given APOSLTESHIP of CIRCUMCISION or to Jews !! Paul was gospel of THE CIRCUNCISION or to Gentiles given to Paul !! So who is the WE and who are the THEY in Acts 15:11 !!

JL: We=Jews, They=Gentiles. Both Jew and Gentile are saved the very same way no difference at all, As Peter clearly tells us in Acts15:11.
[Act15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.]kjv biblegateway

Acts 15:11 - Bible Gateway See 61 English translations of Acts15:11

[Gal2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.]kjv

When you want to verify something, you go to people who know the subject. It would be ridiculous to try and verify if you are wrong or right on something if people have no knowledge of the subject.

Circumcision=of the flesh=Jews, uncircumcision=of the flesh=Gentiles. The circumcision of the heart is Christian circumcision for both Jew and Gentile, given when buried with Christ in water baptism.

[Co2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.]kjv

Paul's main mission was to evangelize Gentiles. Paul evangelized both Gentiles mostly but also Jews. The same with Peter, whose main mission was to Jews. Peter and Paul both taught the very same gospel to both Jew and Gentile. The one and only Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ who once delivered that gospel to the saints.

[Jude1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.]kjv

Dan: So how are Jews SAVED TODAY , read 2 Cor 3 :10-18 !!

JL: Jews and Gentiles are saved today the very same way, no difference what so ever. I see no evidence in 2Cor3 that supports your claim. You will have to explain how 2Cor3 tells us Jews are saved differently.

[2Cor3;10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord]k

All scripture KJV Bible Gateway

JLHargus said:

Dan: In Gal 2:7 and 8 , that Paul was entrusted with THE GOSPEL OF THE UNCIRCUNCISION , explain UNCIRCUCSION ?? Then explain what CIRCUNCISION means ? We see that in verse , Peter was given APOSLTESHIP of CIRCUMCISION or to Jews !! Paul was gospel of THE CIRCUNCISION or to Gentiles given to Paul !! So who is the WE and who are the THEY in Acts 15:11 !!

JL: We=Jews, They=Gentiles. Both Jew and Gentile are saved the very same way no difference at all, As Peter clearly tells us in Acts15:11.
[Act15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.]kjv biblegateway

Acts 15:11 - Bible Gateway See 61 English translations of Acts15:11

[Gal2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.]kjv

When you want to verify something, you go to people who know the subject. It would be ridiculous to try and verify if you are wrong or right on something if people have no knowledge of the subject.

Circumcision=of the flesh=Jews, uncircumcision=of the flesh=Gentiles. The circumcision of the heart is Christian circumcision for both Jew and Gentile, given when buried with Christ in water baptism.

[Co2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.]kjv

Paul's main mission was to evangelize Gentiles. Paul evangelized both Gentiles mostly but also Jews. The same with Peter, whose main mission was to Jews. Peter and Paul both taught the very same gospel to both Jew and Gentile. The one and only Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ who once delivered that gospel to the saints.

[Jude1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.]kjv

Dan: So how are Jews SAVED TODAY , read 2 Cor 3 :10-18 !!

JL: Jews and Gentiles are saved today the very same way, no difference what so ever. I see no evidence in 2Cor3 that supports your claim. You will have to explain how 2Cor3 tells us Jews are saved differently.

[2Cor3;10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord]k

All scripture KJV Bible Gateway

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JLHargus said:

Dan: In Gal 2:7 and 8 , that Paul was entrusted with THE GOSPEL OF THE UNCIRCUNCISION , explain UNCIRCUCSION ?? Then explain what CIRCUNCISION means ? We see that in verse , Peter was given APOSLTESHIP of CIRCUMCISION or to Jews !! Paul was gospel of THE CIRCUNCISION or to Gentiles given to Paul !! So who is the WE and who are the THEY in Acts 15:11 !!

JL: We=Jews, They=Gentiles. Both Jew and Gentile are saved the very same way no difference at all, As Peter clearly tells us in Acts15:11.
[Act15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.]kjv biblegateway

Acts 15:11 - Bible Gateway See 61 English translations of Acts15:11

[Gal2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.]kjv

When you want to verify something, you go to people who know the subject. It would be ridiculous to try and verify if you are wrong or right on something if people have no knowledge of the subject.

Circumcision=of the flesh=Jews, uncircumcision=of the flesh=Gentiles. The circumcision of the heart is Christian circumcision for both Jew and Gentile, given when buried with Christ in water baptism.

[Co2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.]kjv

Paul's main mission was to evangelize Gentiles. Paul evangelized both Gentiles mostly but also Jews. The same with Peter, whose main mission was to Jews. Peter and Paul both taught the very same gospel to both Jew and Gentile. The one and only Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ who once delivered that gospel to the saints.

[Jude1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.]kjv

Dan: So how are Jews SAVED TODAY , read 2 Cor 3 :10-18 !!

JL: Jews and Gentiles are saved today the very same way, no difference what so ever. I see no evidence in 2Cor3 that supports your claim. You will have to explain how 2Cor3 tells us Jews are saved differently.

[2Cor3;10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord]k

All scripture KJV Bible Gateway

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Hi and you say that 2 Cor 3:15 But until DAY Moses IS READ / ANAGINSKOKO , which is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , and in the INDICATIVE MOOD .

The VAIL / KALYMMA is in the Greek NOMINATIVE CASE which is the subject of thr noun VAIL .

IS UPON / KEIMAI a verb IN THE Greek PRESENT TENSE which means in the present tense since Israel was set aside for the last 2000 years the VAIL is still upon their HEART .

The Greek word THEIR / AUTOS is in the Greek GENTIVE CASE which means that this VAIL is POSSESED by all Jews.

On their HEARTS / KARDIA is also in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE which is the GOAL ofnthe covering on their hearts

And when reading Moses and then TURNS toward the Lord the COVERING is taken away and then that Jew is saved

dan p

Dan Perez: Hi and you say that 2 Cor 3:15 But until DAY Moses IS READ / ANAGINSKOKO , which is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , and in the INDICATIVE MOOD. The VAIL / KALYMMA is in the Greek NOMINATIVE CASE which is the subject of thr noun VAIL IS UPON / KEIMAI a verb IN THE Greek PRESENT TENSE which means in the present tense since Israel was set aside for the last 2000 years the VAIL is still upon their HEART. The Greek word THEIR / AUTOS is in the Greek GENTIVE CASE which means that this VAIL is POSSESED by all Jews. On their HEARTS / KARDIA is also in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE which is the GOAL ofnthe covering on their hearts And when reading Moses and then TURNS toward the Lord the COVERING is taken away and then that Jew is saved. dan p[/QUOTE]

I didn't say anything about 2Cor3:15 those are your words not mine. I put in bold print in your post, and you say that 2 Cor 3:15. Please post were I said that?

You said the following and I posted: You will have to explain how 2Cor3 tells us Jews are saved differently.

Dan: So how are Jews SAVED TODAY , read 2 Cor 3 :10-18 !!

JL: Jews and Gentiles are saved today the very same way, no difference what so ever. I see no evidence in 2Cor3 that supports your claim. You will have to explain how 2Cor3 tells us Jews are saved differently.

I see you are unable to explain how 2Cor3:10-18 teaches Jews and Gentiles are save differently. Instead you post something that makes no sense whatsoever, making it appear I said it, not very nice.

[2Cor3;10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord]k

All scripture KJV Bible Gateway
L: I I see you have no answer so you

JLHargus said:

Dan Perez: Hi and you say that 2 Cor 3:15 But until DAY Moses IS READ / ANAGINSKOKO , which is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , and in the INDICATIVE MOOD. The VAIL / KALYMMA is in the Greek NOMINATIVE CASE which is the subject of thr noun VAIL IS UPON / KEIMAI a verb IN THE Greek PRESENT TENSE which means in the present tense since Israel was set aside for the last 2000 years the VAIL is still upon their HEART. The Greek word THEIR / AUTOS is in the Greek GENTIVE CASE which means that this VAIL is POSSESED by all Jews. On their HEARTS / KARDIA is also in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE which is the GOAL ofnthe covering on their hearts And when reading Moses and then TURNS toward the Lord the COVERING is taken away and then that Jew is saved. dan p

Click to expand...

I didn't say anything about 2Cor3:15 those are your words not mine. I put in bold print in your post, and you say that 2 Cor 3:15. Please post were I said that?

You said the following and I posted: You will have to explain how 2Cor3 tells us Jews are saved differently.

Dan: So how are Jews SAVED TODAY , read 2 Cor 3 :10-18 !!

JL: Jews and Gentiles are saved today the very same way, no difference what so ever. I see no evidence in 2Cor3 that supports your claim. You will have to explain how 2Cor3 tells us Jews are saved differently.

I see you are unable to explain how 2Cor3:10-18 teaches Jews and Gentiles are save differently. Instead you post something that makes no sense whatsoever, making it appear I said it, not very nice.

[2Cor3;10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord]k

All scripture KJV Bible Gateway
L: I I see you have no answer so you[/QUOTE]


Hi and I have good reason as to why a late answer, as I run a active business , and am also on 4 ot other web sites .

The Greek words A JW / LOUDIAOS is an Adjective in the NOMINATIVE CASE , which the Subject .

#2 , The Greek word LIVEST / ZAO , is in thr Greek PRESENT TENSE , which means Peter was living as Gentile and NOT as a Jew .

#3 , The GREEK , WHY / TIS do you compel the GENTILES ,/ ETHNOS which is in the ACCUSATIVE CASE and means LIMITED to Gentiles .

#4 Compel the GENTILES , TO LIVE AS AS do mthe Jews a verb in the Greek , PRESENT TENSE , which Peter was trying to CONTINUOUSLY live as do the Jews and to ADOPT Jewish CUSTOMS AND RITES >

dan p

You never get tonyour point as write so lnng reply and never know where to start .

Here nisna some of Gal 2:14 .

#1 The Greek words A JEW / LOUDIAS is and adajective i the Greek NOMINATIVE CASE and is the subject as mwe are talking about Jews .

JL: I didn't say anything about 2Cor3:15 those are your words not mine. I put in bold print in your post, and you say that 2 Cor 3:15. Please post were I said that?

You said the following and I posted: You will have to explain how 2Cor3 tells us Jews are saved differently.

Dan: So how are Jews SAVED TODAY , read 2 Cor 3 :10-18 !!

JL: Jews and Gentiles are saved today the very same way, no difference what so ever. I see no evidence in 2Cor3 that supports your claim. You will have to explain how 2Cor3 tells us Jews are saved differently.

I see you are unable to explain how 2Cor3:10-18 teaches Jews and Gentiles are save differently. Instead you post something that makes no sense whatsoever, making it appear I said it, not very nice.

[2Cor3;10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord]k

All scripture KJV Bible Gateway

JL: I see you have no answer so you post nonsense. [/QUOTE]


Dan: Hi and I have good reason as to why a late answer, as I run a active business , and am also on 4 ot other web sites .

The Greek words A JW / LOUDIAOS is an Adjective in the NOMINATIVE CASE , which the Subject .

#2 , The Greek word LIVEST / ZAO , is in thr Greek PRESENT TENSE , which means Peter was living as Gentile and NOT as a Jew .

#3 , The GREEK , WHY / TIS do you compel the GENTILES ,/ ETHNOS which is in the ACCUSATIVE CASE and means LIMITED to Gentiles .

#4 Compel the GENTILES , TO LIVE AS AS do mthe Jews a verb in the Greek , PRESENT TENSE , which Peter was trying to CONTINUOUSLY live as do the Jews and to ADOPT Jewish CUSTOMS AND RITES >

You never get tonyour point as write so lnng reply and never know where to start .

Here nisna some of Gal 2:14 .

#1 The Greek words A JEW / LOUDIAS is and adajective i the Greek NOMINATIVE CASE and is the subject as mwe are talking about Jews .[/QUOTE]

JL: In other words you are unable to explain your claim 2Cor3:10-18 teaches Jews and Gentiles are saved differently, so to cover you are posting nonsense again. I am still waiting for evidence, in plain English, that Jews are saved differently than Gentiles.

Terral said:

Greetings to All:

This Mystery topic is dedicated to building a strong doctrinal foundation by carefully examining the differences between the Gospel of the Kingdom; and our Word of the Cross gospel message for today. God gathers members to the Kingdom Bride; (John 3:29) through the first gospel described below and members to the Mystery Body of Christ; through Paul’s Gospel #2 below.
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This is NOT our gospel for today. Nobody has been saved by this Gospel message for almost 2000 years.
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I. Gospel of the Kingdom (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, 24:14, Acts 8:12). Gospel to the Circumcised. Galatians 2:7.

1. The good news that the kingdom of heaven is at hand; (Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4:17, Matthew 10:7). i.e., preaching the kingdom; Acts 20:25.
2. According to Prophecy; seen by the OT Prophets. Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1.
3. Obtain eternal life by keeping the commandments. Matthew 19:16-17.
4. Water baptism (during confession) for the forgiveness of sins; Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38. (John’s Baptism; Acts 19:3; name of the Father; John 1:6, 33, Matthew 28:19.)
5. Baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus; (Acts 8:16, Acts 19:5),name of the Son; (Matthew 28:19 = my CF.com Baptisms Thread)
6. Receive the Spirit through the baptism in the name of the Holy Spirit; (Matthew 28:19) through the laying of hands (Acts 8:17, Acts 19:6).
7. Justified by works and not by faith alone; James 2:20-24.
8. Kingdom disciples are under Mosaic Law (Matthew 5:18, James 2:10).
--------------------------
This is our gospel for today that many believe is the only gospel of the New Testament with inclusions from Gospel #1. This gospel message was revealed to Paul (Gal. 1:11+12) AFTER his conversion in Acts 9. Note that Christ preached the Gospel of God; in Mark 1:14-15, which is gospel #1 above.
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II. Paul’s my gospel; (Romans 2:16, Romans 16:25, etc.). Gospel to the Uncircumcised. Galatians 2:7.

1. The Gospel of the Grace of God. Acts 20:24.
2. According to the revelation of the Mystery; NOT seen by the OT prophets. Romans 16:25.
3. Saved by God’s grace through faith APART from works. Ephesians 2:8-9.
4. Sins forgiven through the redemption IN Christ (Romans 3:24) and His shed blood (Ephesians 1:7).
5. Our one baptism (Ephesians 4:5) is done by the one Spirit; (Ephesians 4:4) into the one body; (1Corinthians 12:13), which is into Christ’s body; 1Corinthians 12:27.
6. We receive the Spirit when hearing (Romans 10:17*) and believing (Ephesians 1:13-14) Paul’s Gospel by hearing with faith; Galatians 3:2.
7. We are justified by faith apart from works. Romans 4:4-6.
8. We are under grace and not under law. Romans 6:14.

The two-gospels hypothesis says that God sent John the Baptist, Jesus Christ and the Twelve in three separate ministries to preach the “Gospel of the Kingdom” starting with John the Baptist who came first as Elijah (Matt. 11:14) to fulfill OT prophecy (Mal. 3:1+, 4:5-6). John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit while in his mother’s womb (Luke 1:15) by way of his father Zacharias who was chosen “by lot” (Luke 1:9) to go behind the second veil on the Day of Atonement. Jesus Christ took the Holy Spirit baton from John the Baptist in the Jordan River (Matt. 3:1+), when Christ began to “increase” and John “decreased.” John 3:29-30. Jesus Christ preached the “Gospel of the Kingdom” far and wide to pass the Holy Spirit (Helper) baton to the Disciples on the Day of Pentecost, after making the plan known, saying:

“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.” John 16:7-11.​

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The left side of the color-coded Prophecy / Mystery Timeline finds “John the Baptist” (Elijah) stepping through the “Second Veil” that separates the Old Testament as the “Holy of Holies” of God’s Living Word. John preaches the Gospel of the Kingdom in the Father’s ministry followed by Jesus Christ doing the same thing under the Son’s ministry. Christ must leave to begin the Book of Acts (Acts 1:9-11), so that He could then send the Helper (Holy Spirit) back to begin preaching the “good news about the kingdom of God” (Acts 8:12) under the Ministry of the Holy Spirit. Israel allowed John the Baptist to die in prison (Matt. 14:10) and Israel demanded Christ’s crucifixion (Matt. 27:22-23), but Israel would murder Stephen (name means “Crown”) using their own hands (Acts 7:54-60) to commit the “transgression” (Rom. 11:11) that Christ warned about concerning the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:30-32).

The Apostle Paul (Saul) was raised up in response to Steven’s murder and saved by God’s grace through faith apart from works on the road to Damascus in Acts 9 to become a “chosen instrument of Mine” (Acts 9:15) to be given our gospel for today (Gospel of the Grace of God) via “a revelation of Jesus Christ:”

“For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.” Galatians 1:11-12.​

God tricked Satan into killing Jesus Christ by offering the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to Israel and Jesus Christ as the King. Satan stopped the kingdom from becoming a reality 2000 years ago, but God’s Plan all along kept hidden “in” Him was to raise Jesus Christ from the dead “and” us with Him part of the “Mystery of Christ” taught exclusively in the Pauline Epistles to the Gentiles. Do you see just one good news message preached in the New Testament, or do you see two? Good luck in the debate. Blessings, Terral

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Peter preached the gospel of this kingdom at Pentecost in its completed form. And it included Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. It was essentially Amillennialism.