True saving faith is proven by your repentance

Bible Highlighter said:

As for being a son: See 1 John 2:29, and 1 John 3:10.

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Those show us what the fruit of faith looks like. Have you kept them perfectly?

renniks said:

Only after you tell me how you can be a sinner by your own admission and yet claim you have to be sinless to be saved.

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It is not about me but about what God’s Word says. You don’t get to make the rules. God does. God says there is a sin not unto death. There are commands that are not tied with warnings with hellfire or condemnation, and there are other commands where this is the case. But it would not matter if this was spelled out clearly for you. You don’t want righteousness mixed in with Grace. You are bent towards a view of God’s grace that does not agree with the grace of God described to us in Titus 2:11-12.

Bible Highlighter said:

It is not about me but about what God’s Word says. You don’t get to make the rules. God does. God says there is a sin not unto death. There are commands that are not tied with warnings with hellfire or condemnation, and there are other commands where this is the case. But it would not matter if this was spelled out clearly for you. You don’t want righteousness mixed in with Grace. You are bent towards a view of God’s grace that does not agree with the grace of God described to us in Titus 2:11-12.

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If it's not about you, then you can't claim to be a believer.
Scripture says he died for our sins. No categories.

renniks said:

Those show us what the fruit of faith looks like. Have you kept them perfectly?

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But it doesn’t work in the way that you desire.

Ezekiel 18:24 says,
“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”
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Bible Highlighter said:

But it doesn’t work in the way that you desire.

Ezekiel 18:24 says,
“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”
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Isn't looking good for you is it?

Bible Highlighter said:

But it doesn’t work in the way that you desire.

Ezekiel 18:24 says,
“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”
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Yeah James says a similar thing. If you break one law, you are guilty of it all. But some try to pick and choose what sins matter.

renniks said:

If it's not about you, then you can't claim to be a believer.
Scripture says he died for our sins. No categories.

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It is written,

5 "Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
6 For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house." (Micah 7:5-6).

Also, the forum rules encourage we are not to address the poster or the individual in potentially heated debates, but we are to stick to the topic with Scripture.

In addition, would you believe me if I told you about my life? Well, trust needs to be earned. I confide in those who believe the Word of God as I do. Furthermore, it does not matter if most of the whole world was not living correctly. God's Word is still the standard and the standard is not my life alone. God destroyed an entire world with a global flood except for eight people. We walk by faith and not by sight. I am not above God's Word in what it says anymore than you are. If the Bible tells me to be ye holy, that is something I have to accept (Whether I like it or not). It is something you have to accept, whether you like it or not.

Bible Highlighter said:

It is written,

5 "Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
6 For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house." (Micah 7:5-6).

Also, the forum rules encourage we are not to address the poster or the individual in potentially heated debates, but we are to stick to the topic with Scripture.

In addition, would you believe me if I told you about my life? Well, trust needs to be earned. I confide in those who believe the Word of God as I do. Furthermore, it does not matter if most of the whole world was not living correctly. God's Word is still the standard and the standard is not my life alone. God destroyed an entire world with a global flood except for eight people. We walk by faith and not by sight. I am not above God's Word in what it says anymore than you are. If the Bible tells me to be ye holy, that is something I have to accept (Whether I like it or not). It is something you have to accept, whether you like it or not.

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Fortunately, none of us have to live by the law.
Fortunately, our holiness doesn't come from us.
Fortunately, those who have received the new heart mentioned at the end of the Ezekiel chapter you quoted from are pardoned of thier sins.

renniks said:

Yeah James says a similar thing. If you break one law, you are guilty of it all. But some try to pick and choose what sins matter.

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Please read the context of James 2:10. The point James was making was in regards to breaking the Royal Law of loving your neighbor and not just any law of God. The beginning chapter starts out with James criticizing the brethren for having respect of persons by showing favor to the rich brethren but they showed no favor to the poor brethren. By their doing this, they were not loving their brother or neighbor.

renniks said:

Fortunately, none of us have to live by the law.

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Paul was referring to the 613 laws of Moses as a whole or contract when he spoke negatively of the Law and works in Galatians, Romans, and Corinthians. Any person can just look at the context to see this fact for themselves.

Paul was not referring to the commands that came from Jesus and his followers. Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and He gives grace to the humble.

You said:

Fortunately, our holiness doesn't come from us.

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1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous.

Hebrews 12:14 says,
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:”

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit...". (1 Peter 1:22) (cf. Romans 8:13).

You said:

Fortunately, those who have received the new heart mentioned at the end of the Ezekiel chapter you quoted from are pardoned of thier sins.

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So then what was the point of Ezekiel 18:24 if such is the case?

Bible Highlighter said:

So then what was the point of Ezekiel 18:24 if such is the case?

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It's a call for the wicked to repent. And do as he says:
Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord and live!

renniks said:

It's a call for the wicked to repent. And do as he says:
Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord and live!

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Your not getting what Ezekiel 18:24 is saying. All their previous righteousness will not be remembered when they sin again. This is why we need to confess in order to be forgiven. The wicked have no previous righteousness.

Bible Highlighter said:

1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous.

Hebrews 12:14 says,
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:”

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit...". (1 Peter 1:22) (cf. Romans 8:13).

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He that does righteousness is he that being convinced of the insufficiency of his own righteousness, and of the sufficiency of Christ's righteousness, renounces his own, and submits to his, he receives it, and has faith in it, as his justifying righteousness.

The ability to stand in the presence of God, is exactly what we gain from Christ's finished work on our behalf (Hebrews 9:11–12; 1 John 3:2). The holiness we need to "see the Lord" comes from Christ, by His grace, and through our faith in Him

renniks said:

I don't think we can categorize sins. Only God can judge them.
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Ephesians 1:7
Who is a God like you, pardoning iniquity and passing over transgression for the remnant of his inheritance? He does not retain his anger forever, because he delights in steadfast love. He will again have compassion on us; he will tread our iniquities underfoot. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea.
Micah 7: 18-19
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Colossians 1:13-14
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1John 2:2

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Think of the Ten Commandments. Could you break one of them and not know it? No. They would all take your will. So tell me. If we broke one of those last 6 commandments, are they already forgiven without repentance?

Al Touthentop said:

I think this instance was like Aaron's sons who offered the strange fire. It was the first example of church giving, just like the first fire offered in the first Hebrew worship service. Here they were lying when it wasn't necessary. Holding back was not the problem. Had they sold their land and given half and told the truth about it, I don't think there would have been any issue. But they lied about how much they sold that property for and told the church (and Peter) that they had given all they had received. So God wanted I think to make an example of them for trying to glorify themselves at the church's expense.




Paul had his sins washed away when he was baptized as it was with Peter also. But Paul rebuked Peter for allowing his fellow Jews to think they could treat Gentiles with partiality. And he led Barnabas to partake in the prejudicial attitude too. That was a sin. It was specifically the sin of not showing his fellow brethren love, and leading other Christians to sin with him. I am sure that Peter asked God for forgiveness.



Agreed, and this in spite of the fact that Paul rebuked Peter for sinning.

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Certainly lots to think about. But I see Peter as between a rock and a hard place when it came to mixing Jews and Gentiles. He was fine to eat with the Gentiles, but did not want to offend the Jews when they came. That is how I picture it. Besides, Paul only tells his side of it, and nothing of Peter's explanation, which I bet he had. If you think Peter showed partiality, I think Paul showed unjust arrogance, especially when he also coddled to the Jews, even circumcising Timothy. Ouch!

As far as A and S, I find it interesting they weren't allowed to repent.

CharismaticLady said:

Certainly lots to think about. But I see Peter as between a rock and a hard place when it came to mixing Jews and Gentiles. He was fine to eat with the Gentiles, but did not want to offend the Jews when they came. That is how I picture it. Besides, Paul only tells his side of it, and nothing of Peter's explanation, which I bet he had. If you think Peter showed partiality, I think Paul showed unjust arrogance, especially when he also coddled to the Jews, even circumcising Timothy. Ouch!

As far as A and S, I find it interesting they weren't allowed to repent.

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That just shows that they were "imperfect"....

And not their ideas or words, or the truth about all of their divine revelations should be discredited or not fully believed as being all God inspired or as not all being completely correct and/or fully accurate in any way whatsoever, or as not all coming directly from the Holy Spirit of God, or God the Spirit in any way whatsoever, etc...

It just goes to show, and proves, God will use, and even mightily use sometimes, even sometimes mightily imperfect people sometimes, regardless or irregardless, etc...

I wouldn't dare try to discredit or deny any of their revelations in any way at all, "ever at all" though, due to that or because of that ever, or ever at all though...

Anyway,

God Bless!

CharismaticLady said:

Certainly lots to think about. But I see Peter as between a rock and a hard place when it came to mixing Jews and Gentiles. He was fine to eat with the Gentiles, but did not want to offend the Jews when they came. That is how I picture it. Besides, Paul only tells his side of it, and nothing of Peter's explanation, which I bet he had. If you think Peter showed partiality, I think Paul showed unjust arrogance, especially when he also coddled to the Jews, even circumcising Timothy. Ouch!

As far as A and S, I find it interesting they weren't allowed to repent.

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And I would ask you this @CharismaticLady, since I've had some prior dealings with you and know you think you don't ever sin anymore, etc, anyway, do you ever think or judge yourself better or more righteous than them or those "actual apostles" cause you say you don't ever make mistakes like that, or like they did now anymore, or don't ever sin anymore again ever, etc...?

Do you judge or think yourself better or more righteous than them in any way at all ever, etc...?

Cause you just "not" and I can guarantee you that...

And I think it's just proof that God would use imperfect people over people who are perfect, or rather, "only think they are perfect", cause that is "all it is", etc, cause they are actually not perfect or sinless and do not not ever sin anymore but just think they do or are, or do not ever sin anymore or make any kinds of mistakes anymore, etc...

Anyway, I think God would rather use imperfect but honest people, over people who are not (honest) or don't think they are (sinful or sin) anymore, and/or are not being completely honest, etc...

Anyway, just thought I'd add that...

Anyway,

God Bless!

renniks said:

He that does righteousness is he that being convinced of the insufficiency of his own righteousness, and of the sufficiency of Christ's righteousness, renounces his own, and submits to his, he receives it, and has faith in it, as his justifying righteousness.

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Your quote from John Gill. John Gill is a Calvinist.
Are you a Calvinist?

Anyways, the problem with this kind of commentary is that it is not aligning with what the apostle John actually says in 1 John 3:7 in light of the context. John says to not be deceived, he that does righteousness is righteous. You and John Gill think that this is not the case. Sure, John Gill believes one will do righteousness after believing Christ alone is one's righteousness but he thinks physical righteousness is done only before men and not to be justified before God. James 2:24 says we are justified by works and not by faith alone. This is dealing with salvation because when we use the words "justified" and "faith" together it deals with God and salvation and not a thing involving men alone. The word "justified" is used to refer to both "works" and "faith." James also says, "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" (James 2:14). James appears to be concerned with salvation here because he asks the question: "Can faith save him?" (Which is asked in relation to a faith without works). In fact, James says in James 2:17 that faith without works is dead. Can a dead faith save anyone? No. So the necessity of works being added to one's faith does count before God, if you believe James.

Also, John is not concerned with being just righteous before men in 1 John 3. John is talking about salvation involving God by one's actions. 1 John 3:10 says, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." 1 John 3:15 says, "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." So a person who does not righteousness is not of God. Yet, according to John Gill, he thinks one is righteous even without doing righteousness and that they are of God. No doubt, you believe the same way. But the apostle John believes otherwise. The apostle John says in verse 15 that just hating your brother means no eternal life abides within them. So one's actions do determine if they are saved or not.

You said:

The ability to stand in the presence of God, is exactly what we gain from Christ's finished work on our behalf (Hebrews 9:11–12; 1 John 3:2). The holiness we need to "see the Lord" comes from Christ, by His grace, and through our faith in Him

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The problem is that none of these portions of Scripture support what you are saying here. There is no trusting in the finished work of Christ for salvation alone even mentioned in the Bible.

Bible Highlighter said:

The problem is that none of these portions of Scripture support what you are saying here. There is no trusting in the finished work of Christ for salvation alone even mentioned in the Bible.

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Are you serious?

1 Corinthians 1:30

But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

Bible Highlighter said:

Your not getting what Ezekiel 18:24 is saying. All their previous righteousness will not be remembered when they sin again. This is why we need to confess in order to be forgiven. The wicked have no previous righteousness.

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So, you claim God is done with them once they sin, despite the fact that a few verses later it states that a new heart is available to them?
1 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
What a person does is a reflection of the heart's condition. To believe that once we sin, forgiveness is not available, goes against, oh, pretty much the whole rest of the Bible.
If God keeps a record of all our wrongs, who could stand? The answer is: No one could, because there's no one righteous in and of himself. Our righteousness is filthy rags.

Isaiah 64:6
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
Fortunately, we don't have to depend on ourselves:

2 Corinthians 5:21

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.