Virginia HB961 - Actual gun confiscation unless you register it with the state

At least a few fine people were planning to attend the protest.

The FBI on Thursday arrested three suspected neo-Nazis who had planned to travel with firearms to Richmond, Va., to participate in a protest against gun control measures proposed by the state legislature’s newly-seated Democratic majority.

Federal officials took the three men into custody in connection with a probe into the white supremacist group The Base, charging them with several federal crimes in Maryland, the U.S. Attorney for the District of Maryland announced. Officials said one of the three, Patrik Mathews, a former soldier in the Canadian army, entered the U.S. illegally.

Shoot, Trump's building his wall in the wrong place.

98cwitr said:

2. If you remove St. Louis, Baltimore, Chicago, and Detroit, all cities with extreme gun control laws, the entire United States falls from 3rd to 189th in murder rate;

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The statistics I posted, and which you responded to, were FBI data from 2017. You indicated that St. Louis has extreme gun control laws. But in January 1, 2017 the provisions of the MO bill enabling constitutional carry went into effect.

It may take some time to see how this changes homicide numbers. But during the year in question people were not under restrictive firearm laws.

Here is a 2016 article that described the timetable of changes.

New Missouri gun law changes the rules, but some restrictions remain

• Come Jan. 1, lawful owners of firearms will be able to conceal and carry them anywhere in Missouri, subject to the limitations that already exist — not in the likes of courthouses, jails, polling places or businesses, such as grocery stores, that post “no guns” at their doors.

• Local governments, such as St. Louis, still can prohibit people from carrying weapons openly unless they have concealed-carry permits.

The oddity, said NRA lobbyist Whitney O’Daniel, of Carbondale, Ill., is that people will be able to carry concealed weapons in St. Louis and other places that limit open carry. A pistol in your pocket, yes, but not in an Old West holster on your hip.

98cwitr said:

Do we have a constitutional and inalienable right to cars? Am I a felon if I don't register my car with the state? Do I have to register my car if I don't drive it on a public road?

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Per the DC v. Heller ruling, firearm ownership is an individual right, but not an unlimited one and per the Moore v. Madigan rulings, a state government isn't allowed to have a no-issue policy (they must have a shall-issue or may-issue policy, and if they have a may-issue and deny someone, they state actor with the 'power of the pen' must show reasonable grounds for the permit denial) for concealed weapons permits.

Outside of those two aspects, the court gave the state governments quite a bit of latitude with regards to the finer details of how gun laws are implemented and with regards to licensing and registration procedures.

If the goal is to change that, the current legal recourse would be to have a current or future SCOTUS overturn or vacate the previous ruling and apply a new ruling to the case, or rule on another case that sets a new supreme court precedent for lower courts to follow.

98cwitr said:

VCDL is filing an injunction on the executive order

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RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — A judge on Thursday upheld a ban on firearms at a pro-gun rally scheduled for next week in Virginia, rejecting a request from gun-rights groups who sued to overturn it.

The Virginia Citizens Defense League and Gun Owners of America filed a lawsuit Thursday seeking an injunction against the ban, which Gov. Ralph Northam imposed for a rally scheduled to take place Monday on the grounds of the Virginia Capitol.

In her written ruling, Richmond Circuit Court Judge Joi Taylor said the governor has the authority under state law to take action related to “the safety and welfare” of the state.

tall73 said:

The statistics I posted, and which you responded to, were FBI data from 2017. You indicated that St. Louis has extreme gun control laws. But in January 1, 2017 the provisions of the MO bill enabling constitutional carry went into effect.

It may take some time to see how this changes homicide numbers. But during the year in question people were not under restrictive firearm laws.

Here is a 2016 article that described the timetable of changes.

New Missouri gun law changes the rules, but some restrictions remain

• Come Jan. 1, lawful owners of firearms will be able to conceal and carry them anywhere in Missouri, subject to the limitations that already exist — not in the likes of courthouses, jails, polling places or businesses, such as grocery stores, that post “no guns” at their doors.

• Local governments, such as St. Louis, still can prohibit people from carrying weapons openly unless they have concealed-carry permits.

The oddity, said NRA lobbyist Whitney O’Daniel, of Carbondale, Ill., is that people will be able to carry concealed weapons in St. Louis and other places that limit open carry. A pistol in your pocket, yes, but not in an Old West holster on your hip.

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Then there's also the fact that, borders being what they are, it's nearly impossible for those cities to stop guns coming in from neighboring jurisdictions.

As you pointed out, St. Louis is within Missouri, which has loose gun laws. Chicago is close to both Indiana and Wisconsin, which have loose gun laws. Baltimore is within a 90 minute drive of Virginia, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Delaware - all of which have loose gun laws.

Happy Lee-Jackson Day in Virginia.

essentialsaltes said:

Happy Lee-Jackson Day in Virginia.

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That was a sad wiki to read.

iluvatar5150 said:

Then there's also the fact that, borders being what they are, it's nearly impossible for those cities to stop guns coming in from neighboring jurisdictions.

As you pointed out, St. Louis is within Missouri, which has loose gun laws. Chicago is close to both Indiana and Wisconsin, which have loose gun laws. Baltimore is within a 90 minute drive of Virginia, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Delaware - all of which have loose gun laws.

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That is also why I am not all that hopeful that national gun laws would matter much. Even in Europe where many nations have gun control, and there were never as many guns to start with the criminal element and terrorists still find a way to get them.

I am not sure how we could hope to keep the criminals from having them here even if the majority were destroyed in a buyback. The availability throughout the region is very high.

There are some types of spur of the moment gun crime that would likely be reduced. However, those types of crimes of passion often involve families or small amounts of people and can often involve a knife or no weapon at all.

John Fredericks, an influential Virginia radio host connected to President Donald Trump’s campaign, joined former Milwaukee sheriff David Clarke Jr. in suggesting that the thousands of people expected to descend on Richmond, Virginia, for a contentious pro-gun rally Monday should charge through the police lines securing the capitol against credible threats of extremist violence.

Fredericks and Clarke lambasted that the Capitol Square in Richmond will have a secured perimeter and one entrance with security screening. Clarke said that police can “kiss my ass” if they want to try to prevent him from entering a public space and voicing his mind, before appearing to suggest that people who plan to attend the event simply overwhelm the security in place. (Clarke said he was not planning to attend Monday’s event.)

“If you’ve got 100,000 people and they’re pushing through, what are the police going to do?” Clarke asked.

“That’s my question. I mean, what are they going to do?” Fredericks answered.

“Nothing. There’s nothing they can do,” Clarke said.

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I hope we don't find out.

And they try to portray AOC as crazy...

Blue lives matter.

essentialsaltes said:

At least a few fine people were planning to attend the protest.

The FBI on Thursday arrested three suspected neo-Nazis who had planned to travel with firearms to Richmond, Va., to participate in a protest against gun control measures proposed by the state legislature’s newly-seated Democratic majority.

Federal officials took the three men into custody in connection with a probe into the white supremacist group The Base, charging them with several federal crimes in Maryland, the U.S. Attorney for the District of Maryland announced. .

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Three more.

Three Georgia men allegedly involved in a white supremacist group known as The Base have been arrested, the Floyd County Police Department announced Friday, one day after three other alleged group members were arrested in other parts of the country.

The men -- identified as Luke Austin Lane, 21; Michael John Helterbrand, 25; and Jacob Kaderli, 19 -- allegedly had plans to overthrow the government and kill a couple in Bartow County, police said in a news release.

All three face charges of conspiracy to commit murder and participation in a criminal gang, The Base, police said.

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And the total is up to seven for just that group.

Seven men accused of belonging to a white supremacist group called The Base were arrested this week in separate raids in Delaware, Georgia, Maryland, and Wisconsin, according to authorities.

"I think the FBI's got a fair sense of worry about Monday because of all the factors that you just talked about and because we can't account for everybody and everything. We have a degree of interest of some individuals that we know are at least saying that they will be there and we have no way to predict where rhetoric turns to violence," Tabb said, referring to the context of the rally: inflamed tension around gun laws, Martin Luther King Jr. Day, and a historic Confederate celebration day in the area.

Tabb said the three men arrested in Delaware and Maryland on Thursday "definitely had an intent" to travel and attack the Richmond rally. He did not specify the Georgia men's intent regarding Richmond, and the Wisconsin case had not yet been made public when he spoke Friday.

essentialsaltes said:

Tabb said the three men arrested in Delaware and Maryland on Thursday "definitely had an intent" to travel and attack the Richmond rally. He did not specify the Georgia men's intent regarding Richmond, and the Wisconsin case had not yet been made public when he spoke Friday.

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That's good news. We don't want those types showing up.

98cwitr said:

Two points:

1. None of this data attempts to address why people are wanting to kill others (that's the problem we're trying to solve, right?)

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Well, that's been a problem since the first caveman brained the second one with a rock.

Nothing's going to solve it, but we don't have to make it too much easier.

98cwitr said:

Do we have a constitutional and inalienable right to cars? Am I a felon if I don't register my car with the state? Do I have to register my car if I don't drive it on a public road?

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The constitution doesn't say anything about there being an inalienable right to an unregistered gun.

variant said:

The constitution doesn't say anything about there being an inalienable right to an unregistered gun.

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Well, the country has spoken on Sanctuary cities, towns, etc.

Now they have gun sanctuary counties, towns, etc. Law enforcement decided they will not enforce what is being put into law there.

I'm not even in Virginia, and our county has been declared one. Our state hasn't even done anything yet, and they did it anyway. Many places are.

In my view both types of Sanctuary are unconstitutional, but I guess now they will both be a reality anyway.

HannahT said:

Well, the country has spoken on Sanctuary cities, towns, etc.

Now they have gun sanctuary counties, towns, etc. Law enforcement decided they will not enforce what is being put into law there.

I'm not even in Virginia, and our county has been declared one. Our state hasn't even done anything yet, and they did it anyway. Many places are.

In my view both types of Sanctuary are unconstitutional, but I guess now they will both be a reality anyway.

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If people want to get all preachy about the constitution then they should actually understand what it says.

There's no constitutional argument to be made against laws that require gun registration unless they impose some sort of undue burden on the right to own a gun.

This isn't a "constitution" argument it's a "making stuff up as we please" argument.