Uncreated Energies in Genesis...

Augustus Aeternus said:

Considering that the physical celestial spheres were only created on the 4th day is the light of Genesis 1:3 to be considered the Uncreated Energies of God?

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I remember when I was young hearing people say what even then seemed illogical to me --"God would not leave something so important out of Scripture". I have come to see that God indeed does tell us what we need to know. But he doesn't need to describe everything true, in his Genesis account.

Let me put it another way: If he is not first cause, and just came upon already existing fact, he is not God. In my view, if God did not "invent" existence itself, he is not God. He is not subject to the principle of existence --that is, existence is what it is, because HE exists. I would say he IS existence, but that language implies things I don't mean by it.

i think that the Creation story tells us from an observational perspective. The first moments of the universe was one big bright light which illuminated the whole universe perhaps because of this did God not need to created the sun and the moon until four days later. It could also be that thick fog covered the earth at first and did not begin to lessen until the fourth day when the Sun finally broke through the clouds so to speak.

Augustus Aeternus said:

Considering that the physical celestial spheres were only created on the 4th day is the light of Genesis 1:3 to be considered the Uncreated Energies of God?

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no. the Uncreated Energies did not come into bring at God's command. they are eternal.

No, as Army Matt said. It is a created light, that is later contained in the sun.

ArmyMatt said:

no. the Uncreated Energies did not come into bring at God's command. they are eternal.

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No such thing as uncreated energies. No such thing as eternal apart from God.

No, St. Palamas uses grace, light and energies interchangeably in his texts, though the connotation here and there are different. On a side note, studying even the fathers like St. Basil without a throughout knowledge of ancient symbology will do one more harm than help.

Mark Quayle said:

No such thing as uncreated energies. No such thing as eternal apart from God.

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The uncreated energies are God

Mark Quayle said:

No such thing as uncreated energies. No such thing as eternal apart from God.

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the Uncreated Energies are natural to God, and therefore not apart from Him anymore than His Will or Power is apart from Him.

ArmyMatt said:

the Uncreated Energies are natural to God, and therefore not apart from Him anymore than His Will or Power is apart from Him.

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Natural how? To put it another way, He is not subject to the principles of Eternity, Time, Energy, Existence itself --they are what they are because HE IS. He exists, He is eternal, etc. They come from him. They are not Him, as we know them.

I like to speculate that he permeates all things in a literal way, in that all things are made of his essence. By that I don't mean that they are him. It may be that the most basic particle of matter (or force) is a very physical thing we could only refer to as the love of God. It would help explain much, including his intimate knowledge of all things, his ability to create in the first place, his involvement and concern for his creation, his absolute control of all things, etc etc etc --even could begin to show us how free will and predestination work together.

No, my man. Energies, as we know them, are created just as we are. They proceed from God. They are of God. They are not God.

AMM said:

The uncreated energies are God

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Of God. All things were made by him. They proceed from him. They are not his makeup, they are not his essence. He is their essence, perhaps. But they are not him anymore than we are him.

Energy is what it is, because God is energetic, yes. But God is not energetic as a result of energy's existence.

In orthodox theology, energy doesn’t refer to the same thing as in physics. We don’t mean that God has “kinetic energy” or “thermonuclear energy” or anything like that. So that could be some of the confusion here - a difference in terminology and undefined terms

Mark Quayle said:

Natural how? To put it another way, He is not subject to the principles of Eternity, Time, Energy, Existence itself --they are what they are because HE IS. He exists, He is eternal, etc. They come from him. They are not Him, as we know them.

I like to speculate that he permeates all things in a literal way, in that all things are made of his essence. By that I don't mean that they are him. It may be that the most basic particle of matter (or force) is a very physical thing we could only refer to as the love of God. It would help explain much, including his intimate knowledge of all things, his ability to create in the first place, his involvement and concern for his creation, his absolute control of all things, etc etc etc --even could begin to show us how free will and predestination work together.

No, my man. Energies, as we know them, are created just as we are. They proceed from God. They are of God. They are not God.

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they aren't created as they are Uncreated Energies. they aren't energies as you are describing them. they are eternal, everywhere present, filling all things. the Energies are God Himself, as in His Uncreated glory which Christ says He had with the Father before the world was. they are natural in that they are an aspect of His Divine Nature.

and being Orthodox, no offense, but your speculations are irrelevant to our faith.

Is the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2 an aspect of the uncreated energy?

Lukaris said:

Is the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2 an aspect of the uncreated energy?

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no, that's the Holy Spirit. but then, whenever God acts His Uncreated Energies are there.

ArmyMatt said:

no, that's the Holy Spirit. but then, whenever God acts His Uncreated Energies are there.

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Thanks.

ArmyMatt said:

they aren't created as they are Uncreated Energies. they aren't energies as you are describing them. they are eternal, everywhere present, filling all things. the Energies are God Himself, as in His Uncreated glory which Christ says He had with the Father before the world was. they are natural in that they are an aspect of His Divine Nature.

and being Orthodox, no offense, but your speculations are irrelevant to our faith.

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Enjoy, then.

Mark Quayle said:

Enjoy, then.

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enjoy what?

Mark,

The drive-by isn't appreciated. You are not only in an Orthodox forum and pontificating, but you are addressing an Orthodox priest, clergy, as "my man." Not respectful in my humble opinion. And the "enjoy" comment is odd as well.

Mark Quayle said:

Natural how? To put it another way, He is not subject to the principles of Eternity, Time, Energy, Existence itself --they are what they are because HE IS. He exists, He is eternal, etc. They come from him. They are not Him, as we know them.

I like to speculate that he permeates all things in a literal way, in that all things are made of his essence. By that I don't mean that they are him. It may be that the most basic particle of matter (or force) is a very physical thing we could only refer to as the love of God. It would help explain much, including his intimate knowledge of all things, his ability to create in the first place, his involvement and concern for his creation, his absolute control of all things, etc etc etc --even could begin to show us how free will and predestination work together.

No, my man. Energies, as we know them, are created just as we are. They proceed from God. They are of God. They are not God.

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