Does God Have Free Will?

Maria Billingsley · Jan 16, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
"in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, ..."

With all due respect, this is hardly solid proof that God is constrained.

Uber Genius · Jan 16, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Such a man expresses Christ, not the natural ways of his own talents, abilities, upbringing and environment.

The question of definition maybe should come from the Biblical data rather than Oxford. Oxford doesn't even record historical meanings or most popular meanings anymore, just look at how they define "Atheist," in an ahistorical equivocal manner. But I digress.

It seems that Paul had gained intellectual abilities studying to be a Pharisee. He had also gain oratory skills.

Jesus grew in wisdom and stature.

It is fair to say that God helps inform our existing worldview and transform our intellect. But the either or nature of the statement doesn't seem to reflect the Biblical data.

On the primary issue of freewill every time an appeal is made for us to consider evidence, and testimony, leading to belief in an evangelists claims, and then to make a choice, and later in the epistles told that we will remain in Christ...IF

We continue to believe and confess Christ, it is hard to suggest that free will is suspended somehow as examining rational arguments requires free will, CHOOSING Christ requires free will, continuing to use our rationality to maintain belief requires free will.

So while the Biblical data are clear that no one can come to Christ as an act of JUST their free will. The opposite is also false, everyone who becomes a Christian does so sans free will.

This dilemma turns out to be a false one and is solved by splitting the horns of the dilemma.

God calls us, we have some freedom, enough, to call. That is why all men are without excuse.

If we had no freewill, then God would make the decision, not call us. We would not see any passages about maintaining belief. We would not see appeal to consider the evidence.

Also is men have no free will where does sin come from?
Does God condemn men to hell based solely on his choice uninformed by men's actions as Calvin claims?

It is hard to get away from the entailments if we choose the no free will view.

Uber Genius · Jan 16, 2020

ICONO'CLAST said:
Free will does not exist.
It is a philosophical speculation from Satan and carnal man.

And yet you were free to:

turn on your computer
read the post
think about the truth-value of the claim
judge the value as false and type into your computer sentences that communicate your idea.

So if you eliminate free will it seems that you eliminate rationality (that involves many steps all requiring free will).

Why then should we consider your arguments since they are programmed responses that are fully determined and bear no relationship with truth and rationality?

1213 · Jan 16, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
The Oxford dictionary defines free will as

"The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."...

I think that is very strange definition for free will. That is basically the same as to be omnipotent. I think free will means only that person is free to want whatever he wants. And it doesn’t mean things also must go as person wants.

ChetSinger · Jan 16, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Does God Have Free Will?

I believe he's the author of free will, for both us and the angels. So, yes. It's an attribute he shared with us at our creation.

renniks · Jan 16, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
The Oxford dictionary defines free will as

"The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

If wIn a very real sense, there is no such thing as free will. God is constrained by His very nature. He is Love, He is Holy, He is Righteous, He cannot lie, He is just and all His ways are just. e accept that God indeed has free will and the Oxford dictionary is wrong, I would argue that a sinner is no less the possessor of free will.

The sinner is unrighteous, unholy, and incapable of pleasing God in any way. If God were to lie, which is impossible, He would cease to be God. If man wants to change his evil ways, then he must receive a new nature that is righteous (right behaviour), holy (dedicated entirely to God's purpose) and good.

Does the sinner have free will? Just as God is bound by His nature, so the sinner is bound by his. If God has free will, so does the sinner.

The born again believer is in a unique position. He has a new nature, the consequence of the new birth. It is the spirit of man that is born again, not his soul. He is in the world but he no longer is of the world. He is dead to to his former life. He is alive to God.

The "BAC" has the indwelling Holy Spirit to be the Life of Christ to him. He is complete in Christ, he is blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. I gave up counting the NT declarations of who we are and what we have in Christ when I got up to 50. Since the promises of God are "yes" and "amen" in Christ, why do Christians struggle so much?

Unlike God, who cannot deny Himself, and the unbeliever, who cannot be righteous, the Christian has another choice. He can live according to his own thoughts, feelings, desires, passions and self will. This leads to failure, defeat, sin and despair for many. For others who are perhaps stronger characters it leads to self righteousness, arrogance, intolerance and dead works.

Alternatively, the Christian can choose to live according to the life of Christ motivating, guiding, teaching and empowering him. Such a man expresses Christ, not the natural ways of his own talents, abilities, upbringing and environment.

It is as if God puts the believer in the Garden of Eden. The two choices are still to live by the principle of right and wrong or to live in the Life of Christ. The former still leads to a dead, religious "Christianism". The latter leads to life, love, joy, peace, self control, wisdom, power and victory.

It's a stark choice. Romans 7 is the account of Paul's experience when he tried to be a good Christian. Romans 8 is the wonderful experience of the one who has given up on self and chooses Christ to live instead.

What will you choose? To be born again costs you nothing. To be a traveller on the narrow path costs you everything.

In regards to God having free will, I don't think you've really thought this through. Just because there are some things God can't do because of his nature, doesn't mean he doesn't have free will. There are also choices beyond measure that he can make.

And the same is true for us to a lesser degree.

Bruce Leiter · Jan 16, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
The Oxford dictionary defines free will as

"The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

In a very real sense, there is no such thing as free will. God is constrained by His very nature. He is Love, He is Holy, He is Righteous, He cannot lie, He is just and all His ways are just. If we accept that God indeed has free will and the Oxford dictionary is wrong, I would argue that a sinner is no less the possessor of free will.

The sinner is unrighteous, unholy, and incapable of pleasing God in any way. If God were to lie, which is impossible, He would cease to be God. If man wants to change his evil ways, then he must receive a new nature that is righteous (right behaviour), holy (dedicated entirely to God's purpose) and good.

Does the sinner have free will? Just as God is bound by His nature, so the sinner is bound by his. If God has free will, so does the sinner.

The born again believer is in a unique position. He has a new nature, the consequence of the new birth. It is the spirit of man that is born again, not his soul. He is in the world but he no longer is of the world. He is dead to to his former life. He is alive to God.

The "BAC" has the indwelling Holy Spirit to be the Life of Christ to him. He is complete in Christ, he is blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. I gave up counting the NT declarations of who we are and what we have in Christ when I got up to 50. Since the promises of God are "yes" and "amen" in Christ, why do Christians struggle so much?

Unlike God, who cannot deny Himself, and the unbeliever, who cannot be righteous, the Christian has another choice. He can live according to his own thoughts, feelings, desires, passions and self will. This leads to failure, defeat, sin and despair for many. For others who are perhaps stronger characters it leads to self righteousness, arrogance, intolerance and dead works.

Alternatively, the Christian can choose to live according to the life of Christ motivating, guiding, teaching and empowering him. Such a man expresses Christ, not the natural ways of his own talents, abilities, upbringing and environment.

It is as if God puts the believer in the Garden of Eden. The two choices are still to live by the principle of right and wrong or to live in the Life of Christ. The former still leads to a dead, religious "Christianism". The latter leads to life, love, joy, peace, self control, wisdom, power and victory.

It's a stark choice. Romans 7 is the account of Paul's experience when he tried to be a good Christian. Romans 8 is the wonderful experience of the one who has given up on self and chooses Christ to live instead.

What will you choose? To be born again costs you nothing. To be a traveller on the narrow path costs you everything.

In interpreting the Bible, you need to understand it on the basis of its own assumptions and teachings, not on the basis of your reasoning. For example, you assume that there is such a quality as free will by quoting the Oxford Dictionary, even though you also say there is no such thing as free will.

Why do you say that the new birth changes only the human spirit rather than the soul? That statement puzzles me because you can find no basis for it in the Bible.

What is the "BAC"? You need to define your terms. Start with the Scriptures instead of your reason, and accept the fact that there are mysteries that your reason can't solve. That's my advice.

To help you understand the new birth and our position before God the Judge in Christ, you must understand that God the Judge declares us not guilty and right with him when Jesus dies on the cross (justification). However, we still have a sinful nature within us that we must struggle with. This insight is the "already/not yet" of the gospel.

To understand this teaching more, read Ephesians 1-3, then 4-6; Colossians 1-2, then 3-4; Hebrews 1-11, then 12-13; and Romans 1-11, then 12-16. In the first passages in each pair, the writer tells us the "already" of the gospel, and in the last chapters of the letters, he gives us the commands that are the "not yet"--in other words, the sinful nature qualities we still have to struggle against. I hope that this insight helps you sort out the biblical teachings about the Christian life.

Aussie Pete · Jan 16, 2020

Bruce Leiter said:
In interpreting the Bible, you need to understand it on the basis of its own assumptions and teachings, not on the basis of your reasoning. For example, you assume that there is such a quality as free will by quoting the Oxford Dictionary, even though you also say there is no such thing as free will.

Why do you say that the new birth changes only the human spirit rather than the soul? That statement puzzles me because you can find no basis for it in the Bible.

What is the "BAC"? You need to define your terms. Start with the Scriptures instead of your reason, and accept the fact that there are mysteries that your reason can't solve. That's my advice.

To help you understand the new birth and our position before God the Judge in Christ, you must understand that God the Judge declares us not guilty and right with him when Jesus dies on the cross (justification). However, we still have a sinful nature within us that we must struggle with. This insight is the "already/not yet" of the gospel.

To understand this teaching more, read Ephesians 1-3, then 4-6; Colossians 1-2, then 3-4; Hebrews 1-11, then 12-13; and Romans 1-11, then 12-16. In the first passages in each pair, the writer tells us the "already" of the gospel, and in the last chapters of the letters, he gives us the commands that are the "not yet"--in other words, the sinful nature qualities we still have to struggle against. I hope that this insight helps you sort out the biblical teachings about the Christian life.

Perhaps you should read my post a little more carefully. I have made no such assertion. I'm asking the question because I don't believe many people know what free will actually means. So if a comment is made, it is hard to respond because the concept itself is unclear.

If I am pressed, I will say that God absolutely has free will. Yet He, for example, cannot lie. He is Truth. So does that mean He has no free will? That is logically implausible but intuitively correct
Adam had free will, unencumbered by any moral influence. He could choose life or death. That he chose wrongly is a catastrophe that God knew would happen. I do no believe that means God created Adam to fail.
Unbelievers have free will in the sense that God has free will. God is true to His character. The unbeliever is true to his fallen character.
The Christian has a choice similar to that of Adam. Life or death. That is a very big subject and not for this post.
Nothing happens in a vacuum. Man is entirely responsible for his choices, otherwise God is unjust in His judgements.
Deuteronomy 30:14 states that Israel was able to obey God's commandments. They would not because they were sinners by nature. They just refused.
My reason for raising this subject is because I am concerned about the fatalistic and deterministic outlook that is a consequence of the "no free will" movement. Unbelievers latch onto that and use it to argue that God is unjust. God did not create robots, no matter what the hyper Calvinist say.

Aussie Pete · Jan 16, 2020

renniks said:
In regards to God having free will, I don't think you've really thought this through. Just because there are some things God can't do because of his nature, doesn't mean he doesn't have free will. There are also choices beyond measure that he can make.

And the same is true for us to a lesser degree.

I agree absolutely. I noted some typos that make the post a little unclear. I'll fix it.

JackRT · Jan 16, 2020

Uber Genius said:
It seems that Paul had gained intellectual abilities studying to be a Pharisee. He had also gain oratory skills.

His oratorical skills rose to the point where he could put people into such a deep sleep that they would fall out a window.

truefiction1 · Jan 16, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
The Oxford dictionary defines free will as

"The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion."

In a very real sense, there is no such thing as free will. God is constrained by His very nature. He is Love, He is Holy, He is Righteous, He cannot lie, He is just and all His ways are just. If we accept that God indeed has free will and the Oxford dictionary is wrong, I would argue that a sinner is no less the possessor of free will.

The sinner is unrighteous, unholy, and incapable of pleasing God in any way. If God were to lie, which is impossible, He would cease to be God. If man wants to change his evil ways, then he must receive a new nature that is righteous (right behaviour), holy (dedicated entirely to God's purpose) and good.

Does the sinner have free will? Just as God is bound by His nature, so the sinner is bound by his. If God has free will, so does the sinner.

The born again believer is in a unique position. He has a new nature, the consequence of the new birth. It is the spirit of man that is born again, not his soul. He is in the world but he no longer is of the world. He is dead to to his former life. He is alive to God.

The "BAC" has the indwelling Holy Spirit to be the Life of Christ to him. He is complete in Christ, he is blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. I gave up counting the NT declarations of who we are and what we have in Christ when I got up to 50. Since the promises of God are "yes" and "amen" in Christ, why do Christians struggle so much?

Unlike God, who cannot deny Himself, and the unbeliever, who cannot be righteous, the Christian has another choice. He can live according to his own thoughts, feelings, desires, passions and self will. This leads to failure, defeat, sin and despair for many. For others who are perhaps stronger characters it leads to self righteousness, arrogance, intolerance and dead works.

Alternatively, the Christian can choose to live according to the life of Christ motivating, guiding, teaching and empowering him. Such a man expresses Christ, not the natural ways of his own talents, abilities, upbringing and environment.

It is as if God puts the believer in the Garden of Eden. The two choices are still to live by the principle of right and wrong or to live in the Life of Christ. The former still leads to a dead, religious "Christianism". The latter leads to life, love, joy, peace, self control, wisdom, power and victory.

It's a stark choice. Romans 7 is the account of Paul's experience when he tried to be a good Christian. Romans 8 is the wonderful experience of the one who has given up on self and chooses Christ to live instead.

What will you choose? To be born again costs you nothing. To be a traveller on the narrow path costs you everything.

God is not constrained by the Divine nature. In God, Divine Personal being both precedes and defines God's nature. That is what we mean when we say that our God is a "Personal" God. Our God is not the god of the Greek philosophers. God is not Divine essence first and only personal after. The inverse is true in Orthodox Christian Theology.

truefiction1 · Jan 16, 2020

ICONO'CLAST said:
Free will does not exist.
It is a philosophical speculation from Satan and carnal man.

Satan does not want anybody to believe in freewill, because freewill is what constitutes the image of God in humankind, which he hates. In reality, theological teachings which deny human freewill are nothing but verbalized manifestations of the will of Satan, who would have humankind degraded to the level of brute beasts, through the deprivation of Gods image in man. But Satan is a liar.

What is required for our salvation is for us to be humble, even as God is humble, and by His grace can give us the gift of humility if our hearts seek it. So I can sort of understand why some Christians would go so far as to deny that they even have any ability to choose repentance for themselves. But to deny that ability takes it too far, and betrays a depravity of the knowledge of the only true God and Jesus Christ. How so? Because to deny each person's ability to choose inevitably leads to the belief that God predestines certain people to eternal suffering against their will (unless one believes in the doctrine of annihilation). True knowledge of God allows for no such belief, nor does the Bible. Thus, the denial of freewill is not from God. It is from the evil one.

ICONO'CLAST · Jan 16, 2020

"Uber Genius,
Hello UG,

And yet you were free to:

turn on your computer
read the post
think about the truth-value of the claim
judge the value as false and type into your computer sentences that communicate your idea.

Yes..we all have a will. Scripture speaks of it as self will. We decide things, we make choices every day. none of which says the will is free.

ICONO'CLAST · Jan 16, 2020

truefiction1 said:
Satan does not want anybody to believe in freewill, because freewill is what constitutes the image of God in humankind, which he hates. In reality, theological teachings which deny human freewill are nothing but verbalized manifestations of the will of Satan, who would have humankind degraded to the level of brute beasts, through the deprivation of Gods image in man. But Satan is a liar.

What is required for our salvation is for us to be humble, even as God is humble, and by His grace can give us the gift of humility if our hearts seek it. So I can sort of understand why some Christians would go so far as to deny that they even have any ability to choose repentance for themselves. But to deny that ability takes it too far, and betrays a depravity of the knowledge of the only true God and Jesus Christ. How so? Because to deny each person's ability to choose inevitably leads to the belief that God predestines certain people to eternal suffering against their will (unless one believes in the doctrine of annihilation). True knowledge of God allows for no such belief, nor does the Bible. Thus, the denial of freewill is not from God. It is from the evil one.

You do not have one verse that mentions or teaches free will....imagine that.

PaulCyp1 · Jan 16, 2020

Meaningless question, since free will means the right to choose God's will vs. our own will.

truefiction1 · Jan 16, 2020

ICONO'CLAST said:
You do not have one verse that mentions or teaches free will....imagine that.

You do not have even the slightest hint in the Bible that God, "Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4), predestines anyone to eternal suffering against their will... imagine that.

JAL · Jan 17, 2020

ICONO'CLAST said:
Yes..we all have a will. Scripture speaks of it as self will. We decide things, we make choices every day. none of which says the will is free.

I'm confused. As a Calvinist, shouldn't that emboldened sentence read like this:

"We [seem to] decide things [but we really don't], we [seem to] make choices every day [but actually God makes all our choices for us]."

Ok, right now I dare you to curse God to His face immediately. If you really are just a puppet on God's strings, you have no cause for hesitating or refraining. The TRUTH is, deep down, you know that you CAN make this choice (in the sense of genuine libertarian freedom), that you CAN determine that particular outcome. And thus to avoid divine retaliation, you will refrain, thereby tacitly acknowledging that you DO have a real say in your future. Deep down,then, you DON'T believe Calvinism.

Even Calvinists don't believe Calvinism. Why, then, should I believe it?

renniks · Jan 17, 2020

ICONO'CLAST said:
Yes..we all have a will. Scripture speaks of it as self will. We decide things, we make choices every day. none of which says the will is free.

It has to be free to some extent then. What you all do is redefine free will to mean something nobody means by it, and then say it's not real.

Petros2015 · Jan 17, 2020

Rick Otto said:
This is why if you look upon bacon & eggs with lust in your heart, you have already committed breakfast, to paraphrase a bit.

Ok, that made me laugh. And completely true too lol. Thank you.

Uber Genius · Jan 17, 2020

JackRT said:
His oratorical skills rose to the point where he could put people into such a deep sleep that they would fall out a window.

Lol...true, so true. But he did raise the poor lad from the dead so he got that going for him and that's nice.

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