Why Christians should reject Partial Preterism

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DavidPT

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This earth and universe will all melt with fervent heat as the millennium closes a new creation is established and those who names are written in the lamb's book of life inherit it.

Whether that is meaning literal or not, that is debatable. What shouldn't be debatable is the timing of it. The timing is connected with the day of the Lord coming as a thief in the night. That happens in the end of this age and not a thousand years and a little season later. I have been Premil for ages now I guess. And I have never thought at anytime that 2 Peter 3:10 might be meaning a thousand years and a little season after His return, rather than at the beginning of His return. I don't know why Premils conclude this?

Does not Matthew 24:35-36 speak of this same event?

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Now compare with 2 Peter 3:10.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
up.

Does not---But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night--equal---But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only?

Does not---in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up----equal---Heaven and earth shall pass away?
 
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sovereigngrace

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The way I tend to view things, there is the city, meaning the NJ, that has an inside and an outside. It is only inside the city where what you listed above, that there would be no sin, no death, no marriages, etc. That doesn't mean the same might be true outside of the city as well. The city is not meaning the entire planet, the fact Revelation 21 shows that there are nations existing outside of it. Plus Isaiah 60 shows this to be the case as well.

What is more, Revelation 21:1-4 says, “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband … And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”

This is talking about the first corrupt earth being removed and replaced with a new perfect earth. The former corruption has been removed. Perfection has finally arrived. The New Jerusalem envelops the perfected earth. The former things have passed away. You paint it as more of the same. This reading describes the occasion that witnesses the termination of sin / sickness / suffering / death / all decay.

Revelation 22:3 tells us that there is coming a day where “there shall be no more curse.”

Revelation 21&22 tells us that there is no more sin on the new earth. You say there is sin on the new earth.
Revelation 21&22 tells us that there is no more death on the new earth. You say there is death on the new earth.
Revelation 21&22 tells us that there is no more pain on the new earth. You say there is pain on the new earth.
Revelation 21&22 tells us that there is no more tears on the new earth. You say there is tears on the new earth.
Revelation 21&22 tells us that there is no more corruption on the new earth.

You have to reject all this in order to sustain Premil!
 
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sovereigngrace

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First; the Sixth Seal Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, the world changer. Revelation 6:12-17
Then the gathering of the Lord people into all of the holy Land. Revelation 7:9, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26
They make a 7 year peace treaty with the leader of the One World Govt. Daniel 9:27
He breaks it after half has passed and conquers Jerusalem.
Zechariah 14:1-2
, Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:5-7
This is the final 42 months of the Church age. The Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls happen during this time.

THEN Jesus Returns and destroys the armies at Armageddon, Daniel 11:45, Revelation 19:11-21 and commences His reign over the earth, for the next 1000 years. Revelation 20:2,3,4,6 & 7

This is all Dispy error.
 
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DavidPT

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Where are the nations on the earth outside the gates?

Let's consider Zechariah 14 for a moment then.


Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

In my view Jerusalem here is meaning the new Jerusalem in the new heavens and new earth. Assuming this might be correct, this alone clearly shows that there are nations existing outside of the city, the fact these have to come up to the city prove they do not live inside of the city. The timing of this has to be meaning post the 2nd coming. There is no logical way of getting around that.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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So, if the new heavens and new earth come with Christ, is the curse is lifted then?
There's no marriage in your millennium?
There's no death in your millennium?
There's no sin in your millennium?
H i David in the millennium we have two types of people there. Jude quotes Enoch saying he saw the LORD coming with 10,000's of his saints. In Rev we see the redeemed in chapter 5 sing they will reign with him on the earth. Later we see the beheaded during the tribulation being also mentioned as reigning with him on the earth. We see 3 times in the OT that David will be raised up as well. in 1 Thess
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

So those who were asleep or deed in Christ as well as those who are caught up are also given their new bodies and these who reign will be like the angles neither marrying or given in marriage. Zech 14 and Dan show that the nations which are left continue on earth. Now this will be including all who did not take the mark and the LORD separates the sheep from the goats so there will be those who survive the tribulation and did not take the mark. Among these are 144,000 Jews. Anyways this group will repopulate the earth and be marrying.
 
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keras

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This is a total avoidance of the fact that you have sin offerings in your imaginary future millennium.

Without a doubt Christ is reigning over His enemies since the resurrection, waiting for their final predetermined put down. Those who question Christ’s current reign do great assault upon the truth of God’s Word and undermine the current sovereign kingly position that He now assuredly holds. They also circumvent clear New Testament writings that teach Christ is reigning now.
It isn't me who says there will be offerings and sacrifices in the new Temple. Many prophesies tell us there will be. Psalms 51:18-19, Isaiah 56:6-7, Zechariah 14:20-21
How can you reconcile these plainly stated scriptures?

Imaginary Millennium? Again, you are flat out denying scripture.

Yes Jesus has been given the Kingship, Psalms 110:1-4. But He has not yet done the rest of Psalms 110:5-7 and then Returned to take up His reign.
We await with great anticipation that time!
 
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sovereigngrace

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Let's consider Zechariah 14 for a moment then.


Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

In my view Jerusalem here is meaning the new Jerusalem in the new heavens and new earth. Assuming this might be correct, this alone clearly shows that there are nations existing outside of the city, the fact these have to come up to the city prove they do not live inside of the city. The timing of this has to be meaning post the 2nd coming. There is no logical way of getting around that.

There is absolutely no connection between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20. The burden of proof is with you. The first principle of evidence is: he who alleges must prove.

Where in Zechariah 14 is a thousand years mentioned?

Where in Zechariah 14 is the new earth mentioned?

Where in Zechariah 14 are the glorified saints mentioned?

Where in Zechariah 14 is Jesus shown to be on earth?

Where in Zechariah 14 is the binding of Satan?

Where in Zechariah 14 are the 2 resurrections/judgments?

Where in Zechariah 14 is the release of Satan and an unparalleled global uprising 1,000 years after the second coming?

Could any Premil please do a detailed comparison between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20 (the two main often-presented Premil proof texts)?
 
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sovereigngrace

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It isn't me who says there will be offerings and sacrifices in the new Temple. Many prophesies tell us there will be. Psalms 51:18-19, Isaiah 56:6-7, Zechariah 14:20-21
How can you reconcile these plainly stated scriptures?

Imaginary Millennium? Again, you are flat out denying scripture.

Yes Jesus has been given the Kingship, Psalms 110:1-4. But He has not yet done the rest of Psalms 110:5-7 and then Returned to take up His reign.
We await with great anticipation that time!

Once again: you avoided every single point I made that forbids Premil. I believe for you to address them would immediately force you to acknowledge the veracity of Amil. Therefore, I refer you back to the avoided post.

If it is not indeed fictional, and I am wrong, where in Psalms 51:18-19, Isaiah 56:6-7, and Zechariah 14:20-21 does it even mention a thousand years?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Yes Jesus has been given the Kingship, Psalms 110:1-4. But He has not yet done the rest of Psalms 110:5-7 and then Returned to take up His reign.
We await with great anticipation that time!

You said he wasn't reigning. I showed from Holy Scripture that He is reigning. I believe that proves that we are in the millennium. When He comes He will indeed destroy all the wicked ushering in the new incorrupt eternal state.
 
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DavidPT

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There is absolutely no connection between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20. The burden of proof is with you. The first principle of evidence is: he who alleges must prove.

Where in Zechariah 14 is a thousand years mentioned?

Where in Zechariah 14 is the new earth mentioned?

Where in Zechariah 14 are the glorified saints mentioned?

Where in Zechariah 14 is Jesus shown to be on earth?

Where in Zechariah 14 is the binding of Satan?

Where in Zechariah 14 are the 2 resurrections/judgments?

Where in Zechariah 14 is the release of Satan and an unparalleled global uprising 1,000 years after the second coming?

Could any Premil please do a detailed comparison between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20 (the two main often-presented Premil proof texts)?

What you posted here reminds me of another poster I use to encounter on another board who went by the username WPM. If you are perhaps him, then it is utterly futile to even bother trying to reason with you here. Maybe you are not him, but you sure sound like you could be though.
 
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sovereigngrace

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What you posted here reminds me of another poster I use to encounter on another board who went by the username WPM. If you are perhaps him, then it is utterly futile to even bother trying to reason with you here. Maybe you are not him, but you sure sound like you could be though.

I think you and me know that there is no correlation.
 
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mkgal1

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This age is marked by evil. We are still there. It has not disappeared. It will not disappear until Jesus comes. AD71 was as evil an age as AD69. To think otherwise is theological indoctrination.

Hebrews 9:26 - If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, He has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by His own death as a sacrifice.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Hebrews 9:26 - If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, He has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by His own death as a sacrifice.

You are missing the point. That text is talking about the finished work of the cross. From a heavenly perspective the cross satisfactorily paid the full penalty for our sin. Christ's death did not suddenly change the whole world from a sinful environment to a righteous environment. It did not stop the NT writers describing the sinful earth that they lived on as "evil." That reality did not suddenly change when Titus arrived! Just turn your TV on and you will see the evidence! The wording appropriately describes the "age" in which we still live in now. It is in contrast to the perfect age to come after the general resurrection when the curse is lifted on this earth.

The defining moment is not the arrival of Titus in AD70, it is the arrival of Jesus and His glorious climatic future coming.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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So this is just a pointless meaningless circus carried out on innocent lambs and goats who were enjoying historic peace with the lions and wolves and then snatched away by the Premil butchers to die as feigned sin offerings, despite the fact that Christ was the last sacrifice for sin. This is ridiculous. It will never happen!!!

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

Romans 6:10 says, he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put and end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.
Again you are beating a dead horse with the scriptures on Jesus taking care of everything as we agree on it. The text clearly says this will occur and there is some difficulty in it but the throne is to be established and a fountain flows from the throne of the LORD. We see that the LORD is declared king over all the earth in Zech 14 on the very specific day that has Jerusalem being invaded and that is when He comes. The river in zech is the same river in Eze 47 and indeed the dead sea is to be healed. The sacrifices that are mandated in that day the LORD will explain why. Your problem is not believing the text and demanding to understand and know everything on this side of the events. The Jews thought they understood everything and that is why they missed what the scriptures says will happen. I have also showed you in Jer 3 at the time the throne of the LORD is established that the LORD keeps the covenant to the nation with the land. I believe he is going to do so that is why early on I posted Jesus mission in Luke 1 and you can see that the future view has all the details covered in a literal basis.
Lastly what do you make of the Temple Institute and how they have prepared everything for the return of the sacrifice and how many Jews now are clamoring for the return of the temple. Joel 3 notes one of the reasons for the great day of the LORD is that they have divided His land. The geo political world right now has many nations trying to broker a peace deal that would create the state of Palestine and divide half of Jerusalem as the Palestinian capitol. You see the UN with the UN earth charter housed in a new age replica of the ark of the covenant that is even carried around on poles and set up in the UN building. You see the arch of Baal declared a UN historical site and it has been paraded around the world and set up in many cities.
You bring up a good point that you are adamant about that no innocent animals would be killed in the millennium. But by being Amil you would then take this as the kingdom age where over 100 million babies have been aborted and millions more Jews and Christians and others genocides. My expectations for when the LORD is king and Satan is bound are much higher than your. Isaiah
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Jesus takes the throne; Satan is bound and we see judgment and justice established from that time forever. When Dan 2 shows the stone cut without hands coming to be the stone the destroys the image of mans government it becomes a mountain and a kingdom that covers the earth. The grinds man's kingdoms to powder and leaves no trace of them. This kingdom is on earth and this kingdom has no end. At the end of the millennium after 1000 years of peace one last temptation is allowed. Satan surrounds the city and then that is it. The kingdom does not end there it is moved to a new location. Here is a fact the end of the age described prior to the millennium has armies and Jerusalem in the cross hairs Armageddon after all the plagues have occurred in Rev. The end of the millennium it ends as fast as it starts. Your problem with the animals seems minor compared to accepting that the last 2000 years are under the reign of Jesus.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Again you are beating a dead horse with the scriptures on Jesus taking care of everything as we agree on it. The text clearly says this will occur and there is some difficulty in it but the throne is to be established and a fountain flows from the throne of the LORD. We see that the LORD is declared king over all the earth in Zech 14 on the very specific day that has Jerusalem being invaded and that is when He comes. The river in zech is the same river in Eze 47 and indeed the dead sea is to be healed. The sacrifices that are mandated in that day the LORD will explain why. Your problem is not believing the text and demanding to understand and know everything on this side of the events. The Jews thought they understood everything and that is why they missed what the scriptures says will happen. I have also showed you in Jer 3 at the time the throne of the LORD is established that the LORD keeps the covenant to the nation with the land. I believe he is going to do so that is why early on I posted Jesus mission in Luke 1 and you can see that the future view has all the details covered in a literal basis.

I wrote this part to another poster recently.

Ezekiel 40-48 is a detailed conditional vision; it was not some distant prophecy, as some suggest. The prophet Ezekiel was basically taken up in the Spirit and given a revelation of better things than that which prevailed when he received it.

In the vision Ezekiel was shown an arrangement that was greater than existed around him. Ezekiel 43:2-5 records, “behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory. And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face. And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east. So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.”

Here we see the careful connection between the visions and Ezekiel being taken up in the Spirit. The prophet is supernaturally carried into situations that clearly did not exist at that time. They were revealed to him. In reality, the temple was in ruin and the glory of the Lord had departed from the house of God. Notwithstanding, in the visions, “the glory of the LORD came into the house.” Ezekiel was so overwhelmed by what he saw in the Spirit that as a result he “fell upon” his “face.”

Israel in Ezekiel’s day had sunk into deep idolatry and awful iniquity. God exposed the extent of the evil that existed within the camp in Ezekiel 43:8, saying, “they have even defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger.” Notwithstanding, God, as is His custom, reached out in His grace, mercy and love to them, exhorting them to turn from their wicked ways. He promised that He would bless them if they obeyed His voice.

He commanded them (in v 9): “Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.”

God gave definite and unambiguous instructions to Israel regarding how they could regain the blessing of God. With God there is always the promise accompanied by the conditions. Just because God offers a blessing does not mean the outcome is a foregone conclusion. The realisation would be determined by the response. If Israel obeyed what God asked, the blessing would be released, if they didn’t it would be withheld.

Ezekiel 43:10 goes on to outline the gist and purpose of the vision of the temple, saying, “Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.”

Clearly God was making a genuine offer to Israel if they would only repent. Sadly, they didn't and they never entered into the reality of that offer. God essentially shows Israel a picture of what could be if they would only turn from their sin and rebellion. It was a promise of better things if only they would submit to God’s demands. It involved an improved arrangement to what existed at the time of the proposal. It was essentially a mirror that God set up in Ezekiel’s day to allow Israel to see how far (even in that day) they fell short of the old covenant requirements. It was to let Israel compare themselves and their practices against this vision of what God desired for them. God has always instructed Israel in the ideal yet they always fell short. Israel usually failed to adhere to God's conditions. In this situation God’s gracious provision did not materialise.

God simply wanted Israel to “be ashamed of their iniquities.” This was nothing new; in fact, that has always been God’s desire for His people. This was a promise that was built upon righteous conditions. If they would be repentant and humble themselves then they would experience the superior splendour of this new temple.

Ezekiel 43:11 continues, “And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.”

This vision was God’s blueprint for Israel in Ezekiel’s day. It was a design that contained important religious demands and was qualified with definite spiritual provisos. Israel was simply required to obey God’s conditions. The “ordinances,” “forms” and “laws” mentioned were to be kept by Israel in Ezekiel’s day. The fact that he commanded the Israelites of his day to “do them” showed that this wasn’t some distant prophecy after the new covenant period that had no direct relevance to them in that day.

The promise/vision here was intended to stir the people to righteousness in that generation. If they submitted, if they gave themselves to obedience and righteousness, the Lord would have them build a temple for His glory in that day. Again, we can see this is a conditional promise, which Israel had to fulfil before it would come to pass. We can see that it was particular to the Jews in Ezekiel's day. It was applicable to the nation in Ezekiel’s day and depicted how God wanted Israel to live under the old covenant. This was a standard that Israel was supposed to abide by.

Lastly what do you make of the Temple Institute and how they have prepared everything for the return of the sacrifice and how many Jews now are clamoring for the return of the temple.

It is a joke! These are apostate Jews that reject Christ and His atoning sacrifice. Why would this mean anything apart from another sign of their blindness? Most Jews have rejected Jesus for 2000 years. They are dead in their sin. This endeavor means nothing apart from it testifying to their continuing stubborn heart.

Christ erected a new better tabernacle. He introduced a new eternal covenant that will never be replaced or rivaled.

Under the greater promises of the new covenant, Christ commenced the building of the temple built without hands and the opportunity of a literal fulfilment of Ezekiel’s temple passed because it was linked to the Mosaic covenant. Christ is the temple which is “a greater and more perfect tabernacle.” This tabernacle when entered by faith is an eternal shelter from a sin-cursed world. Hebrews 8:1-2 says, “We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.”

Christians look to the “greater … more perfect tabernacle” – which is “the true tabernacle.”

The earthly Israeli tabernacle and temples, beautiful as they were, were simply an inferior shadow and type of the true. Shall Christ leave the perfect temple in heaven for a mere shadow of it on earth? No! the old merely served as a shadow to the substance. The pointed the old covenant saints forward to a greater temple Jesus Christ. Hebrews 9:24 continues, “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.”

Dispensationalists try to explain away the New Testament reality, with a mistaken interpretation (and location) of an old covenant passage. The fuller revelation (the New Testament) makes it clear that the temple is Christ/His body the Church; it is located in the heavenly Jerusalem. It can be accessed of all nations, unlike the old imperfect shadow. Salvation is open to all nations today.

Joel 3 notes one of the reasons for the great day of the LORD is that they have divided His land. The geo political world right now has many nations trying to broker a peace deal that would create the state of Palestine and divide half of Jerusalem as the Palestinian capitol. You see the UN with the UN earth charter housed in a new age replica of the ark of the covenant that is even carried around on poles and set up in the UN building. You see the arch of Baal declared a UN historical site and it has been paraded around the world and set up in many cities.
You bring up a good point that you are adamant about that no innocent animals would be killed in the millennium. But by being Amil you would then take this as the kingdom age where over 100 million babies have been aborted and millions more Jews and Christians and others genocides. My expectations for when the LORD is king and Satan is bound are much higher than your. Isaiah
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Jesus takes the throne; Satan is bound and we see judgment and justice established from that time forever. When Dan 2 shows the stone cut without hands coming to be the stone the destroys the image of mans government it becomes a mountain and a kingdom that covers the earth. The grinds man's kingdoms to powder and leaves no trace of them. This kingdom is on earth and this kingdom has no end. At the end of the millennium after 1000 years of peace one last temptation is allowed. Satan surrounds the city and then that is it. The kingdom does not end there it is moved to a new location. Here is a fact the end of the age described prior to the millennium has armies and Jerusalem in the cross hairs Armageddon after all the plagues have occurred in Rev. The end of the millennium it ends as fast as it starts. Your problem with the animals seems minor compared to accepting that the last 2000 years are under the reign of Jesus.

Listen to Peter preaching on Psalm 110:1, when speaking about David and his throne, says, “For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance [referring to Psalms 16:8-10]. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne [referring to Psalms 132:12]; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption [referring to Psalms 16:10]. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, the Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand, until I make thy foes thy footstool [referring to Psalm 110:1]. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:25-36).

Peter shows us that Psalm 110:1 is currently being fulfilled since Christ destroyed the power of the grave, and ascended to the right hand of majesty on high. No objective Bible student could fail to see the focus and message of this narrative. This reading is concentrated upon the victory of the resurrection of Christ nearly 2,000 years ago and the resulting current kingly Messianic reign of Christ at “the right hand of God exalted” in heaven. It confirms that Israel’s Messiah now sits enthroned upon David’s throne, and locates the timing of His assumption of the same to after “the resurrection of Christ.” As Messiah, Christ fulfilled every human demand of Him, thus rightfully assuming the kingship of Israel through His impeccable life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection.
 
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mkgal1

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You are missing the point. That text is talking about the finished work of the cross. From a heavenly perspective the cross satisfactorily paid the full penalty for our sin. Christ's death did not suddenly change the whole world from a sinful environment to a righteous environment. It did not stop the NT writers describing the sinful earth that they lived on as "evil." That reality did not suddenly change when Titus arrived! Just turn your TV on and you will see the evidence! The wording appropriately describes the "age" in which we still live in now. It is in contrast to the perfect age to come after the general resurrection when the curse is lifted on this earth.

The defining moment is not the arrival of Titus in AD70, it is the arrival of Jesus and His glorious climatic future coming.
And I believe you're missing the point. In your effort to point out to me something I'm well aware of - that in our physical world there's what we call "evil" all around us - I believe you're missing the words in that passage that explain what happened in the spiritual world. Only God can forgive our sin (or hold it against us).

The passage also points out that Jesus came "at the end of the age". There are only TWO ages referred to in the Bible ("this present age" and "the age to come".....which, I believe, has now come).

Hebrews 9:26 - If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, He has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by His own death as a sacrifice.

Another reason why I object to your list of questions is that they're framed in a black and white perspective.....with the expectation that there were clear lines of division between ages, but that's not how Scripture presents it. The author of Hebrews, especially, makes the point repeatedly that the "old is wearing out like a garment" and that it will "soon vanish away" or "disappear".

Hebrews 8:12-13 ~ "FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE. When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Isaiah 43:25
I, yes I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake and remembers your sins no more.​
 
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mkgal1

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The defining moment is not the arrival of Titus in AD70, it is the arrival of Jesus and His glorious climatic future coming.
You seem to be overshadowing His FIRST advent and everything that was fulfilled/accomplished then by His future return. IOW.....I believe you have the emphasis on the wrong syl-LA-ble. You seem to be putting off a lot of His glory for the future (when I believe more emphasis ought to be on His first advent).
 
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sovereigngrace

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You're really failing to understand partial preterist don't all view these things the way you describe. That's all I'll say on that. Many of the things you cite above are views of full preterism.
And I believe you're missing the point. In your effort to point out to me something I'm well aware of - that in our physical world there's what we call "evil" all around us - I believe you're missing the words in that passage that explain what happened in the spiritual world. Only God can forgive our sin (or hold it against us).

The passage also points out that Jesus came "at the end of the age". There are only TWO ages referred to in the Bible ("this present age" and "the age to come".....which, I believe, has now come).

Hebrews 9:26 - If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, He has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by His own death as a sacrifice.

Another reason why I object to your list of questions is that they're framed in a black and white perspective.....with the expectation that there were clear lines of division between ages, but that's not how Scripture presents it. The author of Hebrews, especially, makes the point repeatedly that the "old is wearing out like a garment" and that it will "soon vanish away" or "disappear".

Hebrews 8:12-13 ~ "FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE. When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Isaiah 43:25
I, yes I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake and remembers your sins no more.​

You are mixing up our spiritual standing before God as believers to the reality of the state of our current evil age we live in.

We still live in "this age." All the biblical qualities attributed to it still pertain today. The coming of Titus did not change that one little bit. "This age” is current, corrupt and temporal and "the age to come” is impending, perfect and eternal.
 
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sovereigngrace

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You seem to be overshadowing His FIRST advent and everything that was fulfilled/accomplished then by His future return. IOW.....I believe you have the emphasis on the wrong syl-LA-ble. You seem to be putting off a lot of His glory for the future (when I believe more emphasis ought to be on His first advent).

I am not. We are seated in heavenly places spiritually, but we still reside physically on earth. While our standing is perfect before Christ (because of His finished work on the cross), our state is still sinful and in a process of sanctification (being more like Christ).

An age in Scripture is an era, not merely our standing. You are trying to spiritualize the whole NT in order to support your Full Preterist leanings. Other PPs have confirmed your beliefs are Full Preterist.

Christ only recognizes two ages in His teaching – “this world/age” and “the world/age to come.” One is current, corrupt and temporal and the other is impending, perfect and eternal. These terms are commonly used in the New Testament when contrasting the toil and trouble of the here-and-now with the glory and pristine nature of the hereafter. These two common phrases are found in different places in the New Testament, along with several other similar expressions, referring to time and eternity.

For the sake of clarity, the phrases “this world” and “the world to come” in the KJV are better interpreted “this age” and “the age to come.” The Greek word that is often interpreted “world” in this contrast is aion. But, it is not specifically speaking about the physical globe that we live on. It rather relates to: a vast period that is normally marked by what is said to occur within that period.

Scripture makes it abundantly clear that there is no intervening time-period or temporal age in between “this age” and “the age to come.” It is within the bounds of this juxtapose alone that we understand the whole eschatological arrangement, with its two unique diverse worlds. Johnathan Menn points out that the New Testament “gives us a clear, consistent and comprehensive eschatological interpretive structure. That structure is the ‘two ages’: … ‘this age’ and the ‘age to come’. The terminology of the two ages is the key concept for understanding biblical eschatology. A proper understanding of how this age and the age to come fit together renders biblical eschatology both understandable and coherent.”

The Greek word kairos (meaning time) is also employed in a similar context to describe the here-and-now, whilst the Greek word mello (meaning hereafter or ‘to come’) is regularly used to describe the eternal state, immediately following the second coming. Because of its contextual and consistent pointing to eternity, it is often translated “the time to come” or “the world to come.” These comparable words only serve to reinforce this recurrent New Testament contrast.

This can be seen in Romans 8:18: “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time (kairos) are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall (mello) be revealed in us.”

We see this same juxtapose in the New Testament between the words “now” and “then.” “Now” relates to time, and “then” relates to the future eternal state. The Greek word for “now” is arti meaning: ‘just now, this moment, now at this time, at this very time, this moment’. The Greek word nun is also used to describe the present time. The Greek word for “then” is tote meaning: ‘then’ or ‘at that time’.

This is demonstrated in 1 Corinthians 13:9-12: “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then (tote) that which is in part shall be done away For now (arti) we see through a glass, darkly; but then (tote) face to face: now (arti) I know in part; but then (tote) shall I know even as also I am known.”

These words are employed in Scripture to divide “this age” from “the age to come.”

It is important to note, ages are normally distinguished by specific and distinct characteristics which occur within them. This helps us understand what (and when) we are looking at. We should keep this in mind as we delve deeper into this subject.

Historians talk about ages in history like the stone age, the iron age and the bronze age. We also hear terms like the ice age. The description given to the said age normally gives us an insight into the period of time we are looking at.

For example:

· The Stone Age was marked by a period in which stone was widely used to make implements.
· The Bronze Age was an era characterized by the widespread use of bronze.
· The Iron Age was a stage of time when the dominant toolmaking material was iron.
· The Ice Age was said to be a time of significantly colder global temperatures that caused glacial expansion across the earth’s surface.

It is the same in Scripture! Ages normally have detail or descriptions attached to them that give us a general overall insight into their location, duration and character.

The Bible sometimes even uses the words “hour” or “day” in a general non-literal sense to describe a time, age or era. But, again, the setting and duration of that period can only be definitely identified by observing the detail that continues throughout that given day. For example: we know that the phrase “the day of salvation” (John 5:25) is not referring to a single 24-hour day because it describes a period of ongoing salvation. Obviously, as long as salvation is happening, the day of salvation still exists. From repeated Scripture, we know that such a period was inaugurated at the beginning of the world/age and will last until the end of the world/age. That is when salvation is concluded.

Equally, when we observe Martha’s statement regarding “the resurrection at the last day” (John 11:24), there are several reasons to relate that to a particular singular day, rather than some ongoing era. First, we note the ongoing distinction between “the last days” (plural), which most informed Bible student correctly relate to the intra-Advent period, and that of “the last day” (singular), relating to the end of time. Second, the detail attributed to “the last day” communicates an event rather than a protracted period – namely “the resurrection.” There is no sense in the name or description of an age of ongoing protracted resurrection. That would be patently illogical and unscriptural. Third, the occasion in view is repeatedly depicted in the Bible as a general instantaneous catching away in the twinkling of an eye. Moreover, the righteous and wicked dead all rise in response to the same sovereign voice at Christ’s climactic return (John 5:28-29). We can therefore determine that this singular day is marked by the resurrection of all the dead.

Scriptural time-references must therefore be examined thoughtfully and meticulously, noting their repeated use, the context they are used in and the specific detail attached to them. Confusion kicks in when the Bible student ignores these. We should view each text from as broad a perspective as possible; namely an objective position, rather than a narrow theological perspective, or subjective position. Mentions must be analyzed in their totality in order to get a good panoramic spiritual vantage point and to arrive at an accurate understanding of the period in view. This is necessary to achieve a safe and accurate understanding of Scripture. You would be shocked how many schools of thought fall apart on these vital basic rules of biblical hermeneutics.
 
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DavidPT

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I think you and me know that there is no correlation.

Are you meaning in regards to Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20? If yes then you thought wrong. Maybe you think there is no correlation, but that doesn't mean I, too, think there is no correlation. Of course there is a correlation, and the timing of Zechariah 14:16-19 undeniably proves it.
 
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