Why Christians should reject Partial Preterism

mkgal1 said:

Sure there's evil *around* us, but I don't believe that was the point. John had prepared the way of Christ, announcing:

John 1:29 - Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!​

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This age is marked by evil. We are still there. It has not disappeared. It will not disappear until Jesus comes. AD71 was as evil an age as AD69. To think otherwise is theological indoctrination.

DavidPT said:

If this temple is supposed to be present during the thousand years, this would indicate it will be there forever then. Nowhere in Ezekiel does it ever give the impression it will be destroyed at some point, assuming it were to be built.

Ezekiel 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.


Would not the place of His throne, and the place of His feet, be in this temple? If yes, doesn't the text then say---where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever?

For ever sounds like eternity to me. He can't have His throne there for ever if the temple is destroyed at some point, can He? And if this temple is there for ever, this indicates this animal sacrificing will continue for ever as well.

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So, if the new heavens and new earth come with Christ, is the curse is lifted then?
There's no marriage in your millennium?
There's no death in your millennium?
There's no sin in your millennium?

mkgal1 said:

That doesn't answer my question. I'll ask again. In this passage, it mentions that "salvation was drawing near" for Paul and his audience. What do you make of that - and which age is night....and which is day here (this was written around 58 AD)? What delineates these time periods of night & day?

Romans 13:11-12 ~ Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is near

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Time and eternity. Corruption and incorruption. The climactic return of Christ. Your fixation with AD70 is extremely troubling and erroneous.

ebedmelech said:

Looking at your list here:

That is the view of full preterism. The exceptions would be:

- The old covenant ended when Jesus instituted the new covenant. Jesus had the apostles preach the gospel preach in Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. Remember what He told the apostles in Matthew 10:23.

- I think *most* partial presterist do believe the "end of the age" was 70AD. It ended the Jewish age...or better stated it ended God's covenant with Israel, which is the old covenant.

- Jesus "coming" in 70AD was a "coming" in judgement of Jerusalem/Israel. There remains final judgement

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Thanks for responding by the way. I appreciate your clarification! There is some Partial Preterism that is palatable in my opinion. There is a lot that is disturbing on here.

mkgal is obviously misrepresenting Partial Preterism. I have never seen such a disjointed, contradictory and ad hoc viewpoint. It is literally impossible to pin any PP down to a consistent definitive definition. It is not as if these are minor issues/occurrences.

It is hard to rebut because the posts are always moving and there are no fixed absolutes. PPs therefore tend to duck the simple questions, and quote their favorite PP. But every PPs favorite PP is different.

Brian Mcnamee said:

I have pointed out that the blood of animals never removed a single sin or ever will. Even Abraham who was declared righteous was not in heaven until Jesus paid the price of redemption. So all who are redeemed are redeemed through the blood of the new covenant. God promised in the new covenant the born again experience of writing his laws on the hearts and minds and this same promise is made in Ezekiel 37 to those gathered back from all the nations where God had scattered them. Your problem with why there are sacrifices in the millennial temple will be answered when the LORD Jesus is king over all the earth.

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So this is just a pointless meaningless circus carried out on innocent lambs and goats who were enjoying historic peace with the lions and wolves and then snatched away by the Premil butchers to die as feigned sin offerings, despite the fact that Christ was the last sacrifice for sin. This is ridiculous. It will never happen!!!

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put and end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.

Brian Mcnamee said:

Hi I have demonstrated every detail of the futurist presentation can be taken in context and works with all the many texts and fine details taken from straight forward reading what is said and believing it is going to happen. Furthermore current events are setting up the exact scenario of a 3rd temple coming when Israel is a nation and the world's moral condition is that of Sodom. I have pointed out our common ground of being under the new covenant and I never suggest that sin will be removed by anything other than the blood of Jesus. This includes and sacrifices made in Ezekiels millennial temple. The throne of David is an earthly throne and the same angel who came to Mary Gabriel also came to Daniel and gave him the 70 weeks interpretation. The idea that the Jesus is reigning now is laughable. When Jesus reigns with a rod of iron there will be no abortion, inappropriate contentagraphy and no more war either. Think about it if they beast their swords into plowshares and the spears into pruning hooks that cannot be in the new Jerusalem as there will be no war at that point. This period of peace comes when the LORD is king over all the earth. You have Jesus as king now and Zech shows the kingdom comes when the LORD comes with his saints on the day Jerusalem is being over run and half the city goes into captivity. The is the day of vengeance of God and the day the LORD performs the prophecy of LUKE 1. I have shown Jer saying when the throne of the LORD is established He will keep the covenant with Israel and the land. This all and many more previously mentioned work cohesively with out having to allegorize them and just hear what is said and note that it is coming.

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The Premillennial obsession with a supposed future millennium causes them to dump every Old Testament passage pertaining to "the last days" and "the new heavens and new earth" into it.

Last days is intra-Advent!

Isaiah 2:2-4 says, speaking of the Lord’s first Advent, “And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

Micah 4:1-3 parallels this teaching, saying, “in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.”

The last days are now and that the last day is the climactic Second Coming. The Old Testament prophecies of “the last days” relate to the period following the Messiah’s first appearance when He introduced the kingdom of God to this earth and opened up the Gospel to the nations. Christ’s earthly ministry ushered in the period of the last days. This is confirmed in several New Testament passages.

The Old Testament prophecies of “the last days” relate to the period following the Messiah’s first appearance when He introduced the kingdom of God to this earth and opened up the Gospel to the nations. Christ’s earthly ministry ushered in the period of the last days. This is confirmed in several New Testament passages.

keras said:

Great effort! I copied it for reference.
All these prophesied things will happen. If they don't, then our Bibles are just another load of fiction.
You may think there won't be another Temple and sacrifices are just OT history, but Paul says: these things that happened to ancient Israel are symbolic of what will happen again. 1 Corinthians 10:115

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This is a total avoidance of the fact that you have sin offerings in your imaginary future millennium. Your fight is with Scripture, not Amils. Colossians 2:14 plainly and unambiguously declares, that Christ's atonement resulted in the “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”

The Greek word for “Blotting out” here is exaleiphō (eks-ä-lā'-fō) meaning: ‘to wipe off, wipe away, to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out’

These old covenant ordinances (rites and rituals) pertaining to the ceremonial law were obliterated at the cross.

For those that still anticipate the renaissance of the old abolished ordinances we need to ask: When did (or will) the “blotting out the handwriting of ordinances” occur? From this passage it is clear, Christ “took it out of the way” by “nailing it to his cross.” These ordinances embraced the old covenant civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. They were finished at the cross.

Colossians 2:16-17 tells us: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”

The Greek word translated “holyday” here is heorte meaning feast or festival. Of 27 mentions of this word in the normally precise KJV, it is interpreted “feast” in all of them apart from here.

New American Standard interprets: “Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”

The Living Bible says, “So don't let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing-of Christ himself.”

Paul is saying here that the old covenant feasts and festivals simply served as types and shadows of things that were to come. They looked forward to the new covenant arrangement and the reality and substance in Christ. The Jews of Ezekiel’s day and Zechariah’s day would never have understood this.

Colossians 2:20-22 finally sums up the sums up the biblical position today: “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?”

This is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about the ceremonial law. It is a redundant system. Christ took the whole old system away. The old Mosaic ceremonial law is completely gone. It is useless.

Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely. Those who argue for a return to the old system fail to see that it has been rendered obsolete through the new covenant.

Hebrews 7:18-19 makes clear: “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”

This word “disannulling” is taken from the Greek word athetesis meaning cancellation.

The phrase “weakness and unprofitableness” used here to describe the old abolished system actually reads asthenes kai anopheles literally meaning: feeble and impotent useless and unprofitable.

It is hard to believe that you would promote the return, on the new earth of all places, of such a hopeless discarded arrangement.

Impossible.
Jesus is not reigning as King of the world yet.
Satans 'little season' is quite plainly the final 42 months of this age. Revelation 13:

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Wow! You even deny Christ kingship now. This is why everyone should renounce and reject Premillennialism. It dethrones Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24 tells us: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

Here you have it: “all rule and all authority and power” are “put down” at “Christ's … Coming.” It is that simple, and that clear. Those who take a clear, objective and literal straightforward reading of this text will see that it spells the end of all rebellion. However, this is the opposite to the Premil millennium: which has more wicked and more enemies arising and culminates in the greatest uprising in human history – as the wicked, against the saints of God “as the sand of the sea.”

Paul then reminds us:

1 Corinthians 15:25-26: “For he must reign (present, active infinitive), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

Here he shows that Christ is reigning now. It is written in the present, active infinitive sense. How long does he reign? He confirms: “till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” Again, this couldn’t be clearer! Every last enemy will be subjugated and subdued at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The last enemy is identified as death!

There you have it! The second coming sees the final subjugation of all:

· rule
· authority
· power
· death

Paul then reinforces this thought:

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 “For ‘he hath put’ (aorist active indicative) (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) all things under him. And when all things shall be (hupotasso) subdued (or subordinated or submitted to) unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to), that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

Paul, again, repeats the great truth that God “hath put all things under his feet” as He reigns in majestic glory upon high. The reign described here is aorist active indicative, meaning it is ongoing. He also shows, whilst Christ is reigning over His enemies as Lord and God, they will NOT be made His footstool, subdued and put down until the second coming.

The whole focus here is the current reign of Christ upon the heavenly throne that will culminate in the final downfall of all his enemies when he appears. Then we'll his enemies finally be subdued, put down, and made his footstool.

Hebrews 1:2, 3, 2:9 says, “Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things … Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.”

There it is! He is the supreme power. He is the government. He carries all authority. Whilst new enemies are being born every day, while new wicked regimes continually arise, Christ determines what He allows and what He doesn't. There is nothing that is not under Him. The world is NOT out of control. God has a plan and that plan will be fulfilled, when God sees fit.

1 Peter 3:22 says, that Christ, “who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God (now!!!); angels and authorities and powers being (currently!!!) made subject unto him.”

Without a doubt Christ is reigning over His enemies since the resurrection, waiting for their final predetermined put down. Those who question Christ’s current reign do great assault upon the truth of God’s Word and undermine the current sovereign kingly position that He now assuredly holds. They also circumvent clear New Testament writings that teach Christ is reigning now.

DavidPT said:

The way I tend to view things, there is the city, meaning the NJ, that has an inside and an outside. It is only inside the city where what you listed above, that there would be no sin, no death, no marriages, etc. That doesn't mean the same might be true outside of the city as well. The city is not meaning the entire planet, the fact Revelation 21 shows that there are nations existing outside of it. Plus Isaiah 60 shows this to be the case as well.

Isaiah 60:11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

Compare this verse to the following in Revelation 21.

Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

There is more to compare than just this. But this should be enough to show that what is in view in Isaiah 60:11 is this same new heavens and new earth.

And in the midst of this new heavens and new earth context in Isaiah 60, we then see the following.

Isaiah 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

Obviously the new heavens and new earth continue forever. So either we have to conclude that the threat in Isaiah 60:12 continues forever and ever, or something allows it to no longer be a threat anymore at some point. If we insert a thousand years at the beginning of the new heavens and new earth, then knowing what we know from Revelation 20, this solves the problem. The threat doesn't continue forever and ever after all.

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Where are the nations on the earth outside the gates?

The Premil new earth is a bipolar age of justice and injustice, deliverance and bondage, light and darkness, righteousness and unrighteousness, perfection and sin, glorification and corruption, sin and sinlessness, immortality and mortality, peace and harmony and war and terror.

That would mean we have “this present evil age” and also ‘the future evil age to come’. However, the age to come is never depicted as that. Moreover, whilst the “children of this age marry, and are given in marriage” (according to Christ in Luke 20:34-36), the Lord presents the future age as a glorified place that is earned by those alone who are “accounted worthy to obtain that age.” These people are shown to be the glorified saints alone because Jesus says they “neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”

Premil has countless heathens populating the new earth in their corrupt mortal bodies. These, they say, “marry, and are given in marriage” – just like “the children of this age.” Countless millions of unregenerate unsaved are shown to be “accounted worthy to obtain that age.” The words of Christ negate this. The reality is, biblically, those that are worthy to obtain the age to come are neither mortals nor sinners; they are glorified saints.

Man, in his sinful corruptible state, cannot inherit an incorruptible regenerated earth. Nothing could be plainer!