Why Christians should reject Partial Preterism

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Maria Billingsley

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Yes!

I appreciate you taking the time. I will outline what I think; you can do likewise if you choose.

Present age = The last days, introduced by the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ.

End of the age = the climatic future coming of Jesus Christ.

End of this age = the climatic future coming of Jesus Christ.

Age to come = The eternal state that arrives when Jesus comes. That introduces the new heavens and new earth.

The last day = the climatic future coming of Jesus Christ.

Day of the Lord = the climatic future coming of Jesus Christ.
I can see that you do not place any importance to the event that transpired in AD70. Why? This was surely an event that marked at the very least the "end of this age".
 
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keras

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You are ducking the issue. So, this mass slaughter of innocent animals in the temple in Jerusalem takes away the sin of your millennial inhabitants?
This comment is made in a derogatory and accusing tone.
You jump to wrong conclusions and fail to take note of all the prophecies about what will happen soon and during the Millennium.

There is no 'mass slaughter' and no further Atonement for sin since Jesus came.
But there will be thank and purification offerings. Ezekiel 43:18-27

Could you tell us please, where you expect to be during the Millennium? Scriptural proof reqd.
 
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keras

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We probably need to define these terms and understand them in the context to which they are used before we define past or future that being said,

Here is the Biblical definition:
Present age - the Christian era, from the Ascension of Jesus until He Returns.​
End of the age - When Jesus Returns. [NOT 70 AD, that was just the second dispersion of the Jewish House of Judah.]​
End of this age - After all that is prophesied to happen in Revelation, up to Rev 19:11, has occurred.​
Age to come - The Millennium reign of Jesus, culmination in the Great White Throne Judgment of everyone who has ever lived. Revelation 20:11-15​
The last day - The GWT Judgment, then comes Eternity.​
Day of the Lord - the next prophesied event; the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster that will set the scene for all that must happen before the Return.
 
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sovereigngrace

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There is no 'mass slaughter' and no further Atonement for sin since Jesus came.
But there will be thank and purification offerings. Ezekiel 43:18-27.

Really? Then explain the reintroduction of all this:

· The “meat offering” – Ezekiel 42:13, 44:29, 45:15, 17, 24, 25, 46:5, 7, 11, 14, 15, 20.
· The “sin offering” – Ezekiel 40:39, 42:13, 19, 21, 22, 25, 44:27, 29, 45:17, 19, 22, 23, 25, 46:20.
· The “trespass offering” – Ezekiel 40:39, 42:13, 44:29, 46:20.
· The “burnt offerings” – Ezekiel 40:38, 39, 42, 43:18, 24, 27, 44:11, 45:15, 17, 23, 25, 46:2, 4, 12, 13, 15.
· The “peace offerings” – Ezekiel 43:27, 45:15, 17, 46:2, 12.
· The “drink offerings” – Ezekiel 45:17.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I can see that you do not place any importance to the event that transpired in AD70. Why? This was surely an event that marked at the very least the "end of this age".

According to Scripture, we are still in this evil age until sin, death, corruption and Satan are destroyed. Let us see what the Bible attributes to the oft-mentioned time-period “this age” (or aion). Galatians 1:4 tells us that Christ gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world (or aion or age), according to the will of God and our Father.”

According to this passage, what is “this age” particularly known for? What sets it apart from the age to come?

It is “evil”! The Greek word for evil is poneros! The meaning of this word is: “hurtful in effect or influence.” The word indicates ‘degeneracy from original virtue’. We do not need to look too far to realize that it is talking about our current age. In fact, evil has been with us since the fall, and will be with us to the second coming. This gives us immediate insight into the starting and finishing point of “this age.”

This age is constantly depicted throughout Scripture as being plagued by the existence of sin, decay and death. It is never portrayed as a pleasant, pristine or lasting state. In fact, Galatians 1:4 describes this age as “this present evil age;” one that Christ came to “deliver” us from through His death. Evil marks the period of time in-between the fall and the second coming of Christ. We can therefore confidently conclude that “this age” that we are looking at is still with us.

Paul the apostle tells us in Ephesians 5:16 that we should be: “redeeming the time, because the days are evil.”

This is a present ongoing reality on planet earth.

Ephesians 6:13 expressly says, “take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.”

God simply promises the Ephesians His divine power and protection in the midst of evil, something that is in keeping with His character throughout the Word of God.

That is why Scripture exhorts us in Romans 12:2: be not conformed to this world (or aion or age): but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.”

This is a spiritual directive that is applicable to man this side of eternity, or, right up until the day Christ returns. Believers are admonished not

not be conformed to this world because it is a wicked debased world that is corrupted by sinful man. Anyone that would relate this state to any other time than “this present evil age” is clearly in error.

Rather than this world becoming more enlightened and more liberated it is shown to becomes eviler and more bound. 2 Timothy 3:13 tells us: “evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.” This has not let up since the beginning.

Sin arose in the Garden when Adam transgressed the command of God. Every man since Adam is born with original sin and therefore completely guilty before a righteous God. The Bible says, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned (Romans 5:12).

When Adam fell his desires automatically changed from being God-ward to being self-ward. Natural man with Adam’s blood is born with that same corrupt aspiration. He is a rebel. Man – in all generations – inherited Adam’s awful sinful nature, which ultimately separates him from a holy God. It is therefore accurate to say that this evil age has been with us since the fall.

It is not just man, and this age, that has been corrupted, the whole of creation suffers under its awful consequences. When man in the form of Adam disobeyed the divine warning, he brought judgement upon mankind and the earth itself.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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According to Scripture, we are still in this evil age until sin, death, corruption and Satan are destroyed. Let us see what the Bible attributes to the oft-mentioned time-period “this age” (or aion). Galatians 1:4 tells us that Christ gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world (or aion or age), according to the will of God and our Father.”

According to this passage, what is “this age” particularly known for? What sets it apart from the age to come?

It is “evil”! The Greek word for evil is poneros! The meaning of this word is: “hurtful in effect or influence.” The word indicates ‘degeneracy from original virtue’. We do not need to look too far to realize that it is talking about our current age. In fact, evil has been with us since the fall, and will be with us to the second coming. This gives us immediate insight into the starting and finishing point of “this age.”

This age is constantly depicted throughout Scripture as being plagued by the existence of sin, decay and death. It is never portrayed as a pleasant, pristine or lasting state. In fact, Galatians 1:4 describes this age as “this present evil age;” one that Christ came to “deliver” us from through His death. Evil marks the period of time in-between the fall and the second coming of Christ. We can therefore confidently conclude that “this age” that we are looking at is still with us.

Paul the apostle tells us in Ephesians 5:16 that we should be: “redeeming the time, because the days are evil.”

This is a present ongoing reality on planet earth.

Ephesians 6:13 expressly says, “take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.”

God simply promises the Ephesians His divine power and protection in the midst of evil, something that is in keeping with His character throughout the Word of God.

That is why Scripture exhorts us in Romans 12:2: be not conformed to this world (or aion or age): but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.”

This is a spiritual directive that is applicable to man this side of eternity, or, right up until the day Christ returns. Believers are admonished not

not be conformed to this world because it is a wicked debased world that is corrupted by sinful man. Anyone that would relate this state to any other time than “this present evil age” is clearly in error.

Rather than this world becoming more enlightened and more liberated it is shown to becomes eviler and more bound. 2 Timothy 3:13 tells us: “evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.” This has not let up since the beginning.

Sin arose in the Garden when Adam transgressed the command of God. Every man since Adam is born with original sin and therefore completely guilty before a righteous God. The Bible says, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned (Romans 5:12).

When Adam fell his desires automatically changed from being God-ward to being self-ward. Natural man with Adam’s blood is born with that same corrupt aspiration. He is a rebel. Man – in all generations – inherited Adam’s awful sinful nature, which ultimately separates him from a holy God. It is therefore accurate to say that this evil age has been with us since the fall.

It is not just man, and this age, that has been corrupted, the whole of creation suffers under its awful consequences. When man in the form of Adam disobeyed the divine warning, he brought judgement upon mankind and the earth itself.
Ok, but Jesus Christ of Nazareth spoke of AD 70 did He not?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Age to come - The Millennium reign of Jesus, culmination in the Great White Throne Judgment of everyone who has ever lived. Revelation 20:11-15

You contradict the teaching of the New Testament. Both Premils and Preterists must have three ages in their school of thought: this age, the age to come and another age to come after that. Jesus and the New Testament writers only recognize to ages – this age, and the age to come.

The last day -
The GWT Judgment, then comes Eternity.
Oh! So, we are not resurrected until the great white throne, 1000 years after the second coming? That is a new doctrine I've never heard before. But, I guess I am beyond shock here.

John 11:21-27 records: “Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee. Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.”

Christ did not rebuke this understanding of the last day. In fact, it was in complete agreement with what Christ had previously taught in John 6:39-44, 54, where He said, “And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day …No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day ... Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Clearly Christ was explaining that to experience the physical resurrection of the just on the “last day” one has to first experience the spiritual resurrection of the just. The second resurrection is a result of the first. One can overcome the second death (eternal punishment) by the first resurrection (salvation “in Christ”).

The believer will experience physical death because his body is not redeemed until the Coming of Christ. It is only then that he will experience physical resurrection. However, this is not the “first resurrection” the believer experiences. The “first resurrection” he experiences is spiritual when he is raised from the grave of spiritual death and sin into newness of life in Christ. The redemption of the spiritual man is current and ongoing once someone is saved. We know that the invisible spiritual man within us can never die. The reason is he is already resurrected. That is why our spirit goes immediately to be with the Lord upon physical death. The second resurrection is the physical man.

Whilst, we are plainly in the last days there is an actual day coming which will conclude this scene of time and will see the final operation of God’s judgment upon sin, Satan and the wicked. That individual day is frequently known as “the last day.”

This concluding last day is not just a day of resurrection and judgment for the righteous but also for the wicked. This is confirmed by Christ in John 12:48, when He said, He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

Here the wicked are judged on the same day that the righteous are judged, namely, the “last day” of the “last days.” The term “the last day” is quoted different times in the New Testament without any form (or undoubted requirement) of qualification or any hint that there are two separate last days, as the Premillennialist would try and argue. When Christ or any other person referred to that final day in the New Testament it was always constantly in the context of its all-consummating nature, each time referring to the matter of the resurrection / judgment of both the wicked and the righteous. The references expressly refer to the last day of this age (the Gospel age), the day that ushers in the new heaven and the new earth. There are absolutely no grounds for believing that the last day refers to a future millennium, and therefore lasts for a literal 1,000 years. Such a suggestion only emanates out of the Premillennialist camp in order to support their debatable view of Revelation 20.


 
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sovereigngrace

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Ok, but Jesus Christ of Nazareth spoke of AD 70 did He not?

Yes, that was the result of the abolition of the old covenant on the cross. The new covenant era arrived through the shedding of His blood.
 
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mkgal1

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According to Scripture, we are still in this evil age until sin, death, corruption and Satan are destroyed. Let us see what the Bible attributes to the oft-mentioned time-period “this age” (or aion). Galatians 1:4 tells us that Christ gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world (or aion or age), according to the will of God and our Father.”
Galatians was written around 51 - 52 AD.....so that's the only time we know for sure that verse was referring to as "this present evil age". By saying we're still in this time frame - it seems to me you're waiting for sin to be destroyed (which is different than eradicated).
 
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David Kent

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First of all, I am a Postrib Amillennialist. I am also an Idealist – meaning I believe Revelation consist of 7 recaps culminating in a climactic return of Christ.

The last pastor of my previous church believed in the 7 recaps, and I suspect that our current pastor does as well. He has all the notes of his sermons printed and I have read those on Daniel and Revelation (given before we moved here) and it is hard to work out what he believes, except that he believes the antichrist is fuiture.
 
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DavidPT

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Both Premils and Preterists must have three ages in their school of thought: this age, the age to come and another age to come after that.


I'm Premil but don't have three ages in my school of thought.

For example. Unlike most Premils, I tend to think the NHNE begin with the 2nd coming, and not a thousand years and a little season later like most Premils tend to believe. So IOW, the thousand years would be the first thousand years of the eternal age, thus not two ages, but one age. This allows me to then make sense out of why they would be going forth in the NHNE to look upon the men that transgressed the Lord, as per Isaiah 66. But if this happening during the thousand years, and that Revlation 20 shows a rebellion after the thousand years, maybe the reason why they are having to see this is because this serves as a warning for them in the future, meaning those that remain of the nations which came against Jerusalem in Zechariah 14.

And speaking of them, these are not meaning saved saints, therefore are meaning unsaved mortals. No mortal can live forever. And since the timing would be post the 2nd coming, only the thousand years followed by satan's little season can explain their existence post the 2nd coming.
 
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mkgal1

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According to Scripture, we are still in this evil age until sin, death, corruption and Satan are destroyed. Let us see what the Bible attributes to the oft-mentioned time-period “this age” (or aion). Galatians 1:4 tells us that Christ gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world (or aion or age), according to the will of God and our Father
Romans 13:11-12 mentions that "salvation was drawing near" for Paul and his audience. What do you make of that - and which age is night....and which is day here (this was written around 58 AD)? What delineates these time periods of night & day?

Romans 13:11-12 ~ Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is near
 
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David Kent

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Here is the Biblical definition:
Present age - the Christian era, from the Ascension of Jesus until He Returns.

End of the age - When Jesus Returns. [NOT 70 AD, that was just the second dispersion of the Jewish House of Judah.]
End of this age - After all that is prophesied to happen in Revelation, up to Rev 19:11, has occurred.
Age to come - The Millennium reign of Jesus, culmination in the Great White Throne Judgment of everyone who has ever lived. Revelation 20:11-15
The last day - The GWT Judgment, then comes Eternity.
Day of the Lord - the next prophesied event; the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster that will set the scene for all that must happen before the Return.

I can't remember if you are a dispy or not, but all that I have known personally and those I have met online believe that the GWT is only for unbeleivers. Certainly I was taught when I was in the P Brethren.
The last day is when the saints will be raised. John 6:39-40, 54, John 11:24.
I agree with you that the judgement is on the last day, so where can your millenium be? There can only be one last day.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Galatians was written around 51 - 52 AD.....so that's the only time we know for sure that verse was referring to as "this present evil age". By saying we're still in this time frame - it seems to me you're waiting for sin to be destroyed (which is different than eradicated).

That's ridiculous! Have a look around you! You will see that we are still in an evil age.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I'm Premil but don't have three ages in my school of thought.

For example. Unlike most Premils, I tend to think the NHNE begin with the 2nd coming, and not a thousand years and a little season later like most Premils tend to believe. So IOW, the thousand years would be the first thousand years of the eternal age, thus not two ages, but one age. This allows me to then make sense out of why they would be going forth in the NHNE to look upon the men that transgressed the Lord, as per Isaiah 66. But if this happening during the thousand years, and that Revlation 20 shows a rebellion after the thousand years, maybe the reason why they are having to see this is because this serves as a warning for them in the future, meaning those that remain of the nations which came against Jerusalem in Zechariah 14.

And speaking of them, these are not meaning saved saints, therefore are meaning unsaved mortals. No mortal can live forever. And since the timing would be post the 2nd coming, only the thousand years followed by satan's little season can explain their existence post the 2nd coming.

So, if the new heavens and new earth come with Christ, is the curse is lifted then?
There's no marriage in your millennium?
There's no death in your millennium?
There's no sin in your millennium?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Romans 13:11-12 mentions that "salvation was drawing near" for Paul and his audience. What do you make of that - and which age is night....and which is day here (this was written around 58 AD)? What delineates these time periods of night & day?

Romans 13:11-12 ~ Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is near

Titus did not bring salvation in 70AD, Jesus brought it two thousand years ago on the cross. This shows the folly of Preterism.
 
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mkgal1

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That's ridiculous! Have a look around you! You will see that we are still in an evil age.
Sure there's evil *around* us, but I don't believe that was the point. John had prepared the way of Christ, announcing:

John 1:29 - Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
 
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Titus did not bring salvation in 70AD, Jesus brought it two thousand years ago on the cross. This shows the folly of Preterism.
That doesn't answer my question. I'll ask again. In this passage, it mentions that "salvation was drawing near" for Paul and his audience. What do you make of that - and which age is night....and which is day here (this was written around 58 AD)? What delineates these time periods of night & day?

Romans 13:11-12 ~ Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is near
 
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