LDS Mormonism and Non-Mormons

He is the way

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I suggest you post a verse in the Bible that allows you to say "you know that this particular Restored Gospel Church is Christ's true church"

As you and I both know you can't provide me with such a verse, that takes care of that. What you say is "just their opinion "stands.

As I stated before--God know those who are His----and HIs knowing is hardly dictated by modern Religion or church. Gosh, His own might include members of no modern church at all!

On the other hand one can "know" if something is false or not good by the simple verse right here

1 Thessalonians 5:21 (NKJV)
Test all things; hold fast what is good.

I know the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS is false as I have sufficiently tested it
You said: "I suggest you post a verse in the Bible that allows you to say "you know that this particular Restored Gospel Church is Christ's true church"

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:29)

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:11 - 14)

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 2:2 - 3)

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
 
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Jamesone5

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You said: "I suggest you post a verse in the Bible that allows you to say "you know that this particular Restored Gospel Church is Christ's true church"

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:29)

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:11 - 14)

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 2:2 - 3)

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Wow, you lost the argument already.
I said:

I suggest you post a verse in the Bible that allows you to say "you know that this particular Restored Gospel Church is Christ's true church"---Jamesone5

You posted a bunch of verses that take a very imaginative "unbiblical connect-the-dots approach" that tries to make your case. Nothing about a particular church. This is your best argument that your Church can come up with?


Now as to my judging what is right of wrong. Consider this verse:

1 Corinthians 2:15
But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.

The TRUE HOLY SPIRIT of God told me to leave your Church around 24 years ago---that is was indeed was false, but then leaving was NOT easy. Now you are in the position of arguing with God on this matter? You up for an argument with God?

If so, take your best shot.
 
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He is the way

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You don't know what each Mormon believes. And Mormons have often misrepresented their church's teachings, whether by accident or purposefully.

I asked one of your missionaries what 1 Nephi 14:10 means after explaining what it was saying to me. He agreed with me; his companion did not disagree. Go ahead and disagree. Your disagreement means nothing.

1 Nephi 13: 6-8 describes the physical attributes of "this great and abominable church (founded by the devil)"that had the Bible before Joseph Smith was even born.

What you are told to believe now is not what your scripture says and not what Joseph Smith believed and taught.

I [Joseph] answered the questions which were frequently asked me, while on my last journey but one from Kirtland to Missouri, as printed in the Elders' Journal, Vol. 1, Number 2, pages 28 and 29, as follows:

First--"Do you believe the Bible?"

If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do.

Second--"Wherein do you differ from other sects?"

In that we believe the Bible, and all other sects profess to believe their interpretations of the Bible, and their creeds.

Third--"Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?"

Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness.

A transcript of Joseph Smith's "FAQ" (from History of the Church, Vol.3, Ch.3, p.28-30)

I was taught to memorize D&C 93:24 when I was a member of your church:

D&C 93
24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

Verse 25 says:

25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning.

Can truth change according to D&C 93:24?

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'harlot of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces... as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act. If any penitent believer desires to obtain forgiveness of sins through baptism, let him beware of having any thing to do with the churches of apostate Christendom, lest he perish in the awful plagues and judgments, denounced against them. The only persons among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people who have authority from Jesus Christ to administer any gospel ordinance are those called and authorized among the Latter-day Saints. Before the restoration of the church of Christ to the earth in the year 1830, there have been no people on the earth for many generations possessing authority from God to minister gospel ordinances. We again repeat. Beware of the hypocritical false teachers and imposters of Babylon!"
- The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255


"The present Christian world exists and continues by division. The MYSTERY of Babylon the great, is mother of harlots and abominations of the earth, and it needs no prophetic vision, to unravel such mysteries. The old church is the mother, and the protestants are the lewd daughters. Alas! alas! what doctrine, what principle, or what scheme, in all. What prayers, what devotion, or what faith, `since the fathers have fallen asleep,' has opened the heavens; has brought men into the presence of God; and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to an innumerable company of angels? The answer is, not any: `There is none in all christendom that doeth good; no, not one.'
- Apostle John Taylor, Times and Seasons, Vol.6, No.1, p.811
You quoted The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255. Who wrote it? If you don't know who wrote it or if someone or the whole context of it (it may have been a quote from anyone) why would anyone pay any attention to it? There are good and bad people in every church.
 
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He is the way

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Wow, you lost the argument already.
I said:

I suggest you post a verse in the Bible that allows you to say "you know that this particular Restored Gospel Church is Christ's true church"---Jamesone5

You posted a bunch of verses that take a very imaginative "unbiblical connect-the-dots approach" that tries to make your case. Nothing about a particular church. This is your best argument that your Church can come up with?


Now as to my judging what is right of wrong. Consider this verse:

1 Corinthians 2:15
But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.

The TRUE HOLY SPIRIT of God told me to leave your Church around 24 years ago---that is was indeed was false, but then leaving was NOT easy. Now you are in the position of arguing with God on this matter? You up for an argument with God?

If so, take your best shot.
You said: "You posted a bunch of verses that take a very imaginative "unbiblical connect-the-dots approach" that tries to make your case.

Why do you believe these verses from the Bible are not Biblical?

Do you believe in baptism for the dead?

Part of the gold plates were sealed.

Do those under grace still sin?
 
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Ran77

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Let's go back to what was originally said and the questions that were posed.

Jamesone5 said:
So you agree that you have to give essentially 1/3 billing to your Faith in Christ in your testimony?
Or really a Faith [or a knowing] of Christ is through your Church and your prophets, right?
Are you, as Mormons, not "coming unto Christ" in this manner?

Putting a question mark on the end of the sentence doesn't change the fact that "So you agree" proposes that I have made some sort of comment on the subject. Which, of course, I haven't. The question itself supposes that I agree with what you presented. Since I have still not offered any position on the statement, that would indeed be something that you made up.



As it stands you have accused me of bearing false witness by saying I made things up. A question means just that---no accusation on my part, but a mere question.

This is also something that you made up. I didn't use those words. I didn't make that claim. Those are your words. And that is your spin on what was meant.


As you are worried about what others read into it all---

Once again, this is something you made up.
 
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Ran77

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You don't know what each Mormon believes. And Mormons have often misrepresented their church's teachings, whether by accident or purposefully.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic. Of course, I don't know what each Mormon believes. And I haven't claimed that I do. That's why I deal with facts and not what others believe.

What I know is the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.


I asked one of your missionaries . . . .

Like I mentioned above, I deal with facts. Not what others believe. Not what someone tells me that someone else said.

Post some scripture and let's look at what the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints really believe.
 
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Jamesone5

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You said: "You posted a bunch of verses that take a very imaginative "unbiblical connect-the-dots approach" that tries to make your case.

Why do you believe these verses from the Bible are not Biblical?

Do you believe in baptism for the dead?

Part of the gold plates were sealed.

Do those under grace still sin?

the baptism for the dead thing can easily be disproved but the important thing which you avoided commenting on is the fact that the True God told me your Church was false.

What? No comment when you claim your false God can tell you it is supposedly true?

Have you had an opportunity to do this?

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Would you even know how to test those spirits from one of those false prophets? Would you be afraid to?
 
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Jamesone5

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This is also something that you made up. I didn't use those words. I didn't make that claim. Those are your words. And that is your spin on what was meant.




Once again, this is something you made up---Ran77

You seem to post random nonsense that somehow makes your false claims make sense to only you.
You did say "You [meaning I] made things up" and then you continue on with this false claim. I am guessing you have now reached 6 or 7 of these false claims.
Want to try for more?
What? does Mormonism teach one to only to look outward to point out the imaginary sins of others? When your claim against me is essentially bearing false witness. Do we even have to teach you what that is?

Are you so frustrated that you cannot win even one argument?
 
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Jamesone5

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You said: "You posted a bunch of verses that take a very imaginative "unbiblical connect-the-dots approach" that tries to make your case.

Why do you believe these verses from the Bible are not Biblical?

Do you believe in baptism for the dead?

Part of the gold plates were sealed.

Do those under grace still sin?

You seem to superimpose the word "Church" in everything as you want to somehow prove your Church is the true one. Noting in any of those verses reference a Church, but it is all about beliefs---certainly not a false prophet that teaches these things through his "Church".That is something that Mormons have made up and then claim "it is Biblical---it is Biblical"

I did not read you supposed parallel argument to these gold plates that were supposedly the BoM, because I have found out long ago your [and my former] Church is false and the argument you make is really not worth my time. At first glance though when you start out with this verse:

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

It does not say a new book will come forth, but the people are in spiritual blindness and the vision of all has become AS the words of the book that is sealed. Israel went through a lot of times of spiritual blindness, btw.

Mormons have that same spiritual blindness---they tend to read and only assume what is being said, without any concern for context.
 
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Rescued One

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Is it not the same Church that you are wanting to believe in?
So the Church of the Lamb is NOT in SL City-- now.

Even you fellow Mormon agreed to this:

-That statement is false. The headquarters of the Church of the Lamb of God is NOT in Salt Lake City. ---He is the way-

Glad we agree or a least some Mormons agree.

A silly game, is it not?

False Teachers, false doctrine and apostates from LDS church:

Many in the Church were rejecting Jesus‘ teachings for portions of the old Jewish law, selected pagan practices, and various Greek philosophies.
This apostasy was brought about by fading priesthood authority followed by false doctrinal innovations. Thus, the authority to perform the rites and sacraments disappeared.

The Church News, January 4 1997

Clearly the prophecies recorded in scripture were reliable: a general apostasy from Jesus’ gospel had left behind only a dead form of a church without the living Spirit of truth.
http://modernprophets.com/58/do-false-prophets-exist

There is a superior intelligence bestowed upon such as obey the Gospel with full purpose of heart,15 which, if sinned against, the apostate is left naked and destitute of the Spirit of God, and he is, in truth, nigh unto cursing, and his end is to be burned.16 When once that light which was in them is taken from them,17 they become as much darkened as they were previously enlightened,18 and then, no marvel,19 if all their power should be enlisted against the truth, and they, Judas like, seek the destruction of those who were their greatest benefactors.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 67
https://scriptures.byu.edu/tpjs/STPJS.pdf
 
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Jamesone5

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A silly game, is it not?

False Teachers, false doctrine and apostates from LDS church:

Many in the Church were rejecting Jesus‘ teachings for portions of the old Jewish law, selected pagan practices, and various Greek philosophies.
This apostasy was brought about by fading priesthood authority followed by false doctrinal innovations. Thus, the authority to perform the rites and sacraments disappeared.

The Church News, January 4 1997

Clearly the prophecies recorded in scripture were reliable: a general apostasy from Jesus’ gospel had left behind only a dead form of a church without the living Spirit of truth.
http://modernprophets.com/58/do-false-prophets-exist

There is a superior intelligence bestowed upon such as obey the Gospel with full purpose of heart,15 which, if sinned against, the apostate is left naked and destitute of the Spirit of God, and he is, in truth, nigh unto cursing, and his end is to be burned.16 When once that light which was in them is taken from them,17 they become as much darkened as they were previously enlightened,18 and then, no marvel,19 if all their power should be enlisted against the truth, and they, Judas like, seek the destruction of those who were their greatest benefactors.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 67
https://scriptures.byu.edu/tpjs/STPJS.pdf

Yes, it is so sad when you realize many who perpetuate those original deceptions of Joseph Smith are really one of these "many".

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Or at very least one of these false teachers:

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

Keep up the good fight, my dear and I would say always acknowledge that only God could have delivered you from such deception.
 
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He is the way

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the baptism for the dead thing can easily be disproved but the important thing which you avoided commenting on is the fact that the True God told me your Church was false.

What? No comment when you claim your false God can tell you it is supposedly true?

Have you had an opportunity to do this?

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Would you even know how to test those spirits from one of those false prophets? Would you be afraid to?
You said: "the baptism for the dead thing can easily be disproved"

Go ahead then.

You said: "the fact that the True God told me your Church was false."

Did you test the true God?

You said: "What? No comment when you claim your false God can tell you it is supposedly true?"

I have my proof, you should diligently seek your own proof.
 
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He is the way

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You seem to superimpose the word "Church" in everything as you want to somehow prove your Church is the true one. Noting in any of those verses reference a Church, but it is all about beliefs---certainly not a false prophet that teaches these things through his "Church".That is something that Mormons have made up and then claim "it is Biblical---it is Biblical"

I did not read you supposed parallel argument to these gold plates that were supposedly the BoM, because I have found out long ago your [and my former] Church is false and the argument you make is really not worth my time. At first glance though when you start out with this verse:

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

It does not say a new book will come forth, but the people are in spiritual blindness and the vision of all has become AS the words of the book that is sealed. Israel went through a lot of times of spiritual blindness, btw.

Mormons have that same spiritual blindness---they tend to read and only assume what is being said, without any concern for context.
The prophesy came true:

(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:11 - 14)

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.


(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:64 - 65)

64 "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated, and he said that they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters. He gave me a certificate, certifying to the people of Palmyra that they were true characters, and that the translation of such of them as had been translated was also correct. I took the certificate and put it into my pocket, and was just leaving the house, when Mr. Anthon called me back, and asked me how the young man found out that there were gold plates in the place where he found them. I answered that an angel of God had revealed it unto him.
65 "He then said to me, 'Let me see that certificate.' I accordingly took it out of my pocket and gave it to him, when he took it and tore it to pieces, saying that there was no such thing now as ministering of angels, and that if I would bring the plates to him he would translate them. I informed him that part of the plates were sealed, and that I was forbidden to bring them. He replied, 'I cannot read a sealed book.' I left him and went to Dr. Mitchell, who sanctioned what Professor Anthon had said respecting both the characters and the translation."
 
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Jamesone5

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You said: "the baptism for the dead thing can easily be disproved"

Go ahead then.

You said: "the fact that the True God told me your Church was false."

Did you test the true God?

You said: "What? No comment when you claim your false God can tell you it is supposedly true?"

I have my proof, you should diligently seek your own proof.


Been following the True God for 24 years and sometimes comparing Him to the false God that your Church teaches of---why do you ask?
 
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Jamesone5

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The prophesy came true:

(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:11 - 14)

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

This is all I need to determine whether you misuse scripture, as the Pof GP is NOT scripture. The tiny little word "as"--- in Isaiah.

My stars--- you think most non-Mormons are as lost as Mormons. Waiting for the right prophet to come along who will adequately explain a huge deception.
 
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He is the way

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Been following the True God for 24 years and sometimes comparing Him to the false God that your Church teaches of---why do you ask?
For us there is only one God the Father and He is the God of LOVE.
 
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He is the way

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This is all I need to determine whether you misuse scripture, as the Pof GP is NOT scripture. The tiny little word "as"--- in Isaiah.

My stars--- you think most non-Mormons are as lost as Mormons. Waiting for the right prophet to come along who will adequately explain a huge deception.
As I said Isaiah.s prophesy about the Book of Mormon was fulfilled.
 
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Jamesone5

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As I said Isaiah.s prophesy about the Book of Mormon was fulfilled.
Nice try. The word "as" is the problem there

Isaiah 29:10

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

Kind of like a disease with Mormons who never seem to read a verse fully and/or take it out of context.
 
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