Can a Person Obey God's Law Imperfectly?

Dkh587 said:

That’s not true because he was not a woman, therefore he was not able to keep the commandments in God’s law that were for women...

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Let's just say that He kept ALL of the Law which for which He was responsible to keep.

And let's not forget that Jesus taught that one could pursue keeping the LETTER of the Law ... while failing to model the SPIRIT of the Law.

And that one could pursue keeping the SPIRIT of the Law ... without completely fulfilling the LETTER of the Law.

jimmyjimmy said:

I've heard many people say that they obey God's Law, but also say, "not perfectly".

Is there such a thing as imperfect obedience?

Is imperfect obedience, obedience?

I say no. Where I come from, we call it, disobedience.

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God is sovereign we have no free will. That being the case, no one is capable of being disobedient. Everything we do God has preordained and we are doing what he desires us to do. By doing what God has created us to do we are being completely and perfectly obedient.

A_Thinker said:

Good insights.

The righteousness as "filthy rags" idiom never sat well with me ...

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All one has to do is read the context or the surrounding verses for Isaiah 64:6 and they will discover that it is not saying what the "Secure in One's Sin Salvationist" is saying. The verse before and after makes it clear in what it is really saying.

jimmyjimmy said:

I've heard many people say that they obey God's Law, but also say, "not perfectly".

Is there such a thing as imperfect obedience?

Is imperfect obedience, obedience?

I say no. Where I come from, we call it, disobedience.

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Nothing has changed with God concerning His Law from the day He gave it to Moses until this very day.

Jesus made it very clear, so did the apostles John and Paul, if you don't keep the Law of God, you will not see the Kingdom of God.

How do you keep the Law, Jimmy?

jimmyjimmy said:

Can you refer to yourself as obeying God's Law, if you don't always obey all of God's Law?

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The Bible says there is a "sin not unto death" (1 John 5:16-17). Sin is transgression of the Law or commandment (1 John 3:4). This means not all commands lead to death. So we have to see which commands we must obey in order to have life after we are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ. Did Jesus teach that we can look upon a woman in lust and yet still be saved? No. Just read Matthew 5:28-30. Did the apostle John (after the cross) say that we can do whatever kind of sin we like and we are saved? No. John says that whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3:15). So there is a certain baseline set of commands that the Lord does require of us to keep as a part of salvation. A believer can say that they have kept God's laws in regards to those commands that deal with salvation. So your argument here is null and void.

Charlie24 said:

Nothing has changed with God concerning His Law from the day He gave it to Moses until this very day.

Jesus made it very clear, so did the apostles John and Paul, if you don't keep the Law of God, you will not see the Kingdom of God.

How do you keep the Law, Jimmy?

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Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

Bible Highlighter said:

Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

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The Law is made up in three parts.

The moral law (the ten commandments)
The judicial law (common law as we know it today)
The sacrificial law (God's way of salvation to keep the moral law in OT days)

The sacrificial law has changed, but not the moral law.

It is still in effect to this very day. If you don't keep it you will perish.

My question was to Jimmy, how do you keep the law?

Charlie24 said:

The Law is made up in three parts.

The moral law (the ten commandments)
The judicial law (common law as we know it today)
The sacrificial law (God's way of salvation to keep the moral law in OT days)

The sacrificial law has changed, but not the moral law.

It is still in effect to this very day. If you don't keep it you will perish.

My question was to Jimmy, how do you keep the law?

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Only 9 out of the 10 are Moral Laws. There are other Moral Laws besides the 9 out of the 10, too. The Sabbath is not a Moral Law, it is a ceremonial law. A Moral Law is any Law that a person on instinct knows to do as a part of doing good (of which is a part of nature). The Gentiles by nature are able to keep the Law at times without having the Law (Romans 2:14). This would be the Moral Law.

Nowhere is the Sabbath command repeated as a command in the New Covenant by either Jesus or His followers. In fact, Colossians 2:14, and Colossians 2:16-17 says that we are not to allow others to judge us on whether or not we keep the Sabbaths, dietary laws, etc. (For they are merely a shadow that is cast by the body of Christ). Paul says, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4). Acts of the Apostles 13:39 says we cannot be justified by the Law of Moses.

"And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." (Acts of the Apostles 13:39) (KJV).

Granted, I am not advocating disobedience to God's commands after one is saved by God's grace through faith in Christ. I believe we must obey God's commands as a part of salvation. But these would be the commands that come from Jesus and His followers, and not the commands of Moses. For the Law came by Moses, and grace and truth came by Jesus Christ (John 1:17). Jesus told us if we will enter into life, keep the commandments. Jesus mentioned the Moral Law when asked which ones we are to keep (See: Matthew 19:17-19).

Side Note:

Again, I want to stress that before a person can obey God's commands in the New Testament, they need to first be saved by God's grace through faith by asking Jesus to be their Savior (Romans 10:13) (Matthew 14:30), and by seeking forgiveness of their sins with Him (Luke 18:9-14), and by believing in His death, burial, and resurrection on their behalf for salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Bible Highlighter said:

Only 9 out of the 10 are Moral Laws. There are other Moral Laws besides the 9 out of the 10, too. The Sabbath is not a Moral Law, it is a ceremonial law. A Moral Law is any Law that a person on instinct knows to do as a part of doing good (of which is a part of nature). The Gentiles by nature keep the Law without having the Law (Romans 2:14). This would be the Moral Law.

Nowhere is the Sabbath command repeated as a command in the New Covenant by either Jesus or His followers. In fact, Colossians 2:14, and Colossians 2:16-17 says that we are not to allow others to judge us on whether or not we keep the Sabbaths, dietary laws, etc. (For they are merely a shadow that is cast by the body of Christ). Paul says, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4). Acts of the Apostles 13:39 says we cannot be justified by the Law of Moses.

"And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." (Acts of the Apostles 13:39) (KJV).

Granted, I am not advocating disobedience to God's commands after one is saved by God's grace through faith in Christ. I believe we must obey God's commands as a part of salvation. But these would be the commands that come from Jesus and His followers, and not the commands of Moses. For the Law came by Moses, and grace and truth came by Jesus Christ (John 1:17). Jesus told us if we will enter into life, keep the commandments. Jesus mentioned the Moral Law when asked which ones we are to keep (See: Matthew 19:17-19).

Side Note:

Again, I want to stress that before a person can obey God's commands in the New Testament, they need to first be saved by God's grace through faith by asking Jesus to be their Savior (Romans 10:13), and by seeking forgiveness of their sins with Him (Luke 18:9-14), and by believing in His death, burial, and resurrection on their behalf for salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

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We agree! Christ is the sabbath, we find our rest in Him.

Charlie24 said:

We agree! Christ is the sabbath, we find our rest in Him.

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Excellent. I agree. You surprised me there.
Oh, and I updated my last post to you so that others may not be confused on God's plan of salvation for their lives. Just refresh the page to see the changes (if you are interested). I added another paragraph, and also a side note of more information.

Anyways, blessings to you in the Lord today.

Bible Highlighter said:

Excellent. I agree. You surprised me there.
Oh, and I updated my last post to you so that others may not be confused on God's plan of salvation for their lives. Just refresh the page to see the changes (if you are interested). I added another paragraph, and also a side note of more information.

Anyways, blessings to you in the Lord today.

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Blessing to you, Brother!

jimmyjimmy said:

Can you refer to yourself as obeying God's Law, if you don't always obey all of God's Law?

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Why would this be a desired outcome ... if, as Paul says, we are dead to the Law ?

jimmyjimmy said:

Yes. I am.

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Did God, in any sense, ... give points to Noah, Ruth, Joseph, Elizabeth, Mary, etc. ???

Redleghunter said:

Are you suggesting there are no “points” for best effort?

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jimmyjimmy said:

Yes. I am.

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And this would be incorrect. The Bible says this:

"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because I tell you, many will try to enter and won’t be able." (Luke 13:24) (CSB).

"His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." (Matthew 25:21).

jimmyjimmy said:

I've heard many people say that they obey God's Law, but also say, "not perfectly".

Is there such a thing as imperfect obedience?

Is imperfect obedience, obedience?

I say no. Where I come from, we call it, disobedience.

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Hello, I agree with you...there is no such thing in the bible as "imperfect obedience" but is either obedience or disobedience, hot or cold, keeping or obeying Gods Law or Not...I think we as human beings put Gods holy standards according to our filthy rag standards...God is Holy, Righteous and Good and that is what He requires of US. ..