My latest chart (number 3)

keras · Oct 12, 2019

Douggg said:
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
The point is that they are in heaven.

The armies of heaven are angel beings. Proved by Matthew 16:27....coming with His angels...
In no way is Jesus army humans. Jesus will bring the souls of the martyrs with Him and they will be brought back to life then. Revelation 20:4

Please cease posting unscriptural nonsense.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 12, 2019

Douggg said: ↑
Jesus will be in heaven while the great tribulation takes place here on earth. And them caught up (raptured) and resurrected will be there in heaven with Him.

keras said: ↑
A false teaching of the first magnitude. Nowhere does the Bible say anything of the kind.
Jesus is in heaven, yes; and He said that humans cannot go there. John 3:13, +

THIS is what He did say: Some will be imprisoned and some will be killed, but all must endure and remain faithful until the end. Revelation 13:10

Douggg said:
Jesus did not say humans can't go to heaven in John 3:13. He was saying that no one has ascended to heaven to know what was going on there.
John 3:12 If I told you earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, [even] the Son of man, who is in heaven.
It will be in incorruptible eternal bodies that them in the rapture/resurrection will be taken to heaven.

keras said: ↑
Fanciful dreams.
There is no scripture that says there will be a ‘rapture’, but there is plenty saying such a thing is impossible:
John 3:13 No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there.
This verse is a plain irrefutable statement, making it mean anything other than waht it says is a serious error...........

Douggg said: ↑
None of those verses are talking about Christians when they are in their incorruptible eternal bodies.

In 1Corinthians15:46-53, Paul calls the incorruptible eternal bodies heavenly, differentiating them from the earthly bodies of the natural man. Christians in 1Thessalonians4:15-18 asleep in Christ will be resurrected in eternal incorruptible heavenly bodies and them alive at the time will be changed likewise in the twinkling of an eye, and go with Jesus to heaven while the great tribulation takes place here on earth.

You are not going to find anything that says Christians in their incorruptible eternal heavenly bodies don't go to heaven.

At the close of the great tribulation, in Revelation 19:14, they are the armies of heaven that return to earth with Jesus.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

keras said: ↑
More speculation and Douggishness.

Immortality is NOT given until after the Millennium, when it all over and Eternity for those worthy commences.

Douggg said: ↑
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
The point is that they are in heaven.

keras said:
The armies of heaven are angel beings. Proved by Matthew 16:27....coming with His angels...
In no way is Jesus army humans. Jesus will bring the souls of the martyrs with Him and they will be brought back to life then. Please cease posting unscriptural nonsense.

That occurs often on this board.................

Preterism can turn the illogical/unscripturalness of Futurism into the logical/scriptural.

Jesus, the Son of Man, was LITERALLY Seen in the Clouds in A.D. 66 - Revelation Revolution

Preterism, The Parousia Described: 2 Peter 1:16-18 indicates that the Transfiguration was a Model of the Parousia. This Fact is Confirmed by Yosippon who describes what appears to be the Coming of Christ on the Clouds in a Radiant Form similar to the Description of Christ during the Transfiguration.

The fact that Jesus was expected to appear in the radiant glory of His post-ascension resurrection body at the time of the parousia is also implied in 2 Peter 1:16-18:

For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, ‘This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased’— and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

2 Peter 1:16-18 is a description of the transfiguration. During the transfiguration, Jesus appeared to the disciples in the likeness of a being of light. (Matthew 17, Mark 9, Luke 9) What is interesting about this description of the transfiguration is that the Greek word translated coming in v. 16 is parousia, the same word often used to refer to the second coming throughout the New Testament. The fact that Peter uses the word parousia to describe the moment in which Jesus was transformed into a being of light implies that Peter may have seen the transfiguration as a visionary shadow or model of the parousia, the second coming. The fact that the transfiguration in which Jesus appeared in bright, radiant glory may be a kind of model of the second coming seems to be confirmed by Yosippon’s description of the fiery army in the clouds of A.D. 66. At this time Jesus appeared in fiery radiance in the clouds of heaven bearing the same luminescent likeness of His body at the transfiguration in confirmation of 2 Peter 1:16-18.

It should also be noted that this is not the only way in which the transfiguration was a model of the second coming. According to Matthew 17:5 the Glory Cloud also appeared in the midst of the transfiguration: “While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, ‘This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!’” This bright cloud is the Glory Cloud, the quintessential sign of the presence of God. For historical evidence of the presence of the Glory Cloud in A.D. 68 and A.D. 70 see The Appearance of Christ in A.D. 68? and The Coming of Christ in A.D. 70–Like You’ve Never Heard it Before!.

Preterism Explained, “You will see the Son of Man . . . coming with the Clouds of Heaven”: Jesus must have been present at the Head of this Army.

Though Jesus is never identified at the head of this angelic army in the clouds, I believe that it is clear that He must have been. Throughout His ministry, Jesus predicted that He would come on the clouds in the presence of the heavenly host within the lifetimes of those present during His ministry. If this supernatural event did, in fact, occur which literally fulfills Revelation 19:14 and ALL OTHER BIBLICAL DESCRIPTIONS concerning the second coming, then Jesus must have been present at the head of this army on the clouds–this miracle would have been too much of a coincidence if He were not. Furthermore, if Jesus had been identified at the head of this army it could be considered strong evidence that the account of the army in the clouds as a whole is a spurious Christian interpolation intended for apologetic purposes. Since as non-Christians unfamiliar with the details of Christian eschatology, Tacitus and Josephus would never be expected to make such an identification. A more detailed explanation of the evidence of the historical reliability of this event will be discussed later.

Douggg · Oct 13, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Then why do we have "the nations" which are "angry", and "wrath" and also "destruction" in the verse, if it is only about those in heaven?

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

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Parts of the verse address the nations here on earth the bowls of God's wrath to be poured out on them, and also God's destruction of them who will be destroying the earth.

The other part is about the judgement seat of Christ takes place concurrently in heaven.

BABerean2 · Oct 13, 2019

Douggg said:
Parts of the verse address the nations here on earth the bowls of God's wrath to be poured out on them, and also God's destruction of them who will be destroying the earth.

The other part is about the judgement seat of Christ takes place concurrently in heaven.

Christ revealed only one judgment of the dead in John 5:27-30, and the Apostle Paul reveals that Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing, in 2 Timothy 4:1.

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Douggg · Oct 13, 2019

keras said:
The armies of heaven are angel beings. Proved by Matthew 16:27....coming with His angels...
In no way is Jesus army humans. Jesus will bring the souls of the martyrs with Him and they will be brought back to life then. Revelation 20:4

Please cease posting unscriptural nonsense.

There will be angels coming with Jesus, yes.

But the ones in verse 19:14, are the saints, not angels.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Douggg · Oct 13, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Christ revealed only one judgment of the dead in John 5:27-30, and the Apostle Paul reveals that Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing, in 2 Timothy 4:1.

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2Timothy4:1 speaks of the quick and the dead. The quick is a term for them who are changed in the twinkling of an eye when the 1Thessalonians4:15-8 rapture/resurrection takes place.

His appearing will be for them looking for him. Hebrews 9:28

The judgement seat of Christ is for rewards (the things done in his body), according to what a Christian does for the cause of Christ.

2Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

keras · Oct 13, 2019

Douggg said:
There will be angels coming with Jesus, yes.

But the ones in verse 19:14, are the saints, not angels..

How and when did those saints get to heaven?

Other than the souls of those murdered for their faith, no human is ever said to be in heaven. You just make that up.
They too; are given white linen to wear, Revelation 6:11 and told to 'sleep' until their number is complete. Jesus will bring their souls back to earth with Him and raise then to life again. Revelation 20:4 No mention of them riding horses!

When Jesus Returns, He will judge the Nations, Matthew 25:31-33, but the Judgment of every individual will happen after the Millennium. 1 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:11-15
So your idea of immortality, the 'twinkling of the eye', happening at the Return is quite wrong and is falsehood, promoted by you as truth.

keras · Oct 13, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Christ revealed only one judgment of the dead in John 5:27-30, and the Apostle Paul reveals that Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing, in 2 Timothy 4:1.
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Your beliefs are seriously in error and your promotion of unscriptural theories is your disgrace.
Jesus WILL Judge the dead, God has given Jesus all authority in heaven and on earth... Matthew 28:18, this happens after the Millennium, as Revelation 20:11-15 tells us.

2 Timothy 4:1-2 Does NOT say Jesus will judge at His Return, you fail to read that verse properly. Paul says:.... I charge you solemnly, by His coming appearance and His reign, to proclaim the Gospel.....REBible.
Other trans may have it differently, but to think Jesus will judge everyone dead and alive at His Return, is a direct contradiction of Revelation 20:11-15, is not mentioned in the three actual descriptions of the Return and is quite illogical as well.

BABerean2 · Oct 13, 2019

keras said:
Your beliefs are seriously in error and your promotion of unscriptural theories is your disgrace.
Jesus WILL Judge the dead, God has given Jesus all authority in heaven and on earth... Matthew 28:18, this happens after the Millennium, as Revelation 20:11-15 tells us.

2 Timothy 4:1-2 Does NOT say Jesus will judge at His Return, you fail to read that verse properly. Paul says:.... I charge you solemnly, by His coming appearance and His reign, to proclaim the Gospel.....REBible.
Other trans may have it differently, but to think Jesus will judge everyone dead and alive at His Return, is a direct contradiction of Revelation 20:11-15, is not mentioned in the three actual descriptions of the Return and is quite illogical as well.

The serious error is your viewpoint of the Millennium, because you fail to understand that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

In 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Paul reveals the fire comes at the return of Christ.
In 2 Peter 3:10-13, Peter reveals the same thing.
The fire comes at the end of Revelation chapter 20.

You are twisting what Paul said in 2 Timothy 4:1 to make your view of the Millennium work.
Jesus only mentions one judgment of the dead in Matthew 5:27-30.
The timing of that event is found in Revelation 11:18.

Rev 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

Your Bible says the same thing.

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BABerean2 · Oct 13, 2019

Douggg said:
2Timothy4:1 speaks of the quick and the dead. The quick is a term for them who are changed in the twinkling of an eye when the 1Thessalonians4:15-8 rapture/resurrection takes place.

2 Timothy 4:1

(CJB) I solemnly charge you before God and the Messiah Yeshua, who will judge the living and the dead when he appears and establishes his Kingdom:

(ESV) I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:

(Geneva) I charge thee therefore before God, and before the Lorde Iesus Christ, which shall iudge the quicke and dead at that his appearing, and in his kingdome,

(Greek NT TR) διαμαρτυρομαι ουν εγω ενωπιον του θεου και του κυριου ιησου χριστου του μελλοντος κρινειν ζωντας και νεκρους κατα την επιφανειαν αυτου και την βασιλειαν αυτου

(GW) I solemnly call on you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who is going to judge those who are living and those who are dead. I do this because Christ Jesus will come to rule the world.

(LITV-TSP) Then I solemnly witness before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, He being about to judge living and dead at His appearance and His kingdom:

(KJV) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

(KJV+) IG1473 chargeG1263 thee thereforeG3767 beforeG1799 God,G2316 andG2532 theG3588 LordG2962 JesusG2424 Christ,G5547 who shallG3195 judgeG2919 the quickG2198 andG2532 the deadG3498 atG2596 hisG848 appearingG2015 andG2532 hisG848 kingdom;G932

G2198
ζάω
zaō
dzah'-o
A primary verb; to live (literally or figuratively): - life (-time), (a-) live (-ly), quick.
Total KJV occurrences: 142

(NKJV) I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

(NLT) I solemnly urge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will someday judge the living and the dead when he comes to set up his Kingdom:

(YLT) I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign—

Your definition does not match the Greek.
Words have meaning.
If you have to re-define words to make your chart work, then you may want to reconsider your doctrine.

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Douggg · Oct 14, 2019

BABerean2 said:
(KJV) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

BaB2, it is talking about Jesus appearing (for a second time) for those who are looking for him.

"Appearing" is not talking about his first coming. Nor second coming. It is talking about his appearance after the resurrection to the disciples and hundreds of others. He did not appear to unbelievers.

His second appearance - for believers - will be for the resurrection/rapture. Which Jesus will judge the quick (them raptured) and the dead (them who have died in Christ, and resurrected) according for what they did for the cause of Christ.

There will be the Great White Throne judgement yes, but that does not apply to them of the rapture/resurrection.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Remember it is talking about believers in verse 28. Hebrews and Timothy was written after Jesus had left the world in Acts 1. So the first appearing ended when Jesus left the world.

Now believers are looking (supposed to be) for his second appearing (to believers).

Unto them who look for him to appear a second time (Him coming from heaven expressly for them in 1Thessalonians4:16), they will be without sin (it is not talking about Jesus being without sin, obviously) because they will have been changed in the rapture/resurrection into their heavenly incorruptible eternal bodies *.

It will be salvation from the second death. The second death takes place at the Great White Throne judgment, whoever names is not found written in the book of life.

Them returning with Jesus in Revelation 19:14 are them who will have taken part in the rapture/resurrection before the great tribulation begins.
_____________________________________________________________

* Won't it be great not to have to struggle with sin and the effect it has on our body and life.

BABerean2 · Oct 14, 2019

Douggg said:
BaB2, it is talking about Jesus appearing (for a second time) for those who are looking for him.

"Appearing" is not talking about his first coming. Nor second coming. It is talking about his appearance after the resurrection to the disciples and hundreds of others. He did not appear to unbelievers.

His second appearance - for believers - will be for the resurrection/rapture. Which Jesus will judge the quick (them raptured) and the dead (them who have died in Christ) according for what they did for the cause of Christ.

Either you are confused, or the Apostle Paul is confused in the passage below.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

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Douggg · Oct 14, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Either you are confused, or the Apostle Paul is confused in the passage below.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

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2Thessalonians1:7 is Jesus's second coming, and the Great White Throne judgement. It is referring to retribution for persecution and tribulation.

first appearance/second appearance (to believers only)

1. first appearance was Jesus appearing to believers after the resurrection.

2. second appearance of Jesus is future to believers who are looking for Him, it will be the rapture/resurrection event.

first coming/second coming (to the world at large)

1. first coming was Jesus borne into the world and his life up to his death on the cross.

2. second coming is Jesus coming, returning to the world, as Lord of Lords, King of Kings. With His saints and holy angels.

Douggg · Nov 9, 2019

Updated my chart to add rapture note - to take place before the TOD act by the Antichrist.

Douggg · Jan 6, 2020

I updated my chart visually to show the path in red from the beginning of the 7 years to Jesus's return. That it might be easier to follow, upper left corner to lower right corner.

It is not that complicated, as like it might seem at first glance.

confirmation of the covenant - day1
peace and safety, saying.
then the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act.
then he is killed for it.
then he is brought back to life as the beast.
then the image of the beast made, the abomination of desolation
then the great tribulation 1335 days (1290 +45)
then Armageddon, Jesus returns, day 2520.

DavidPT · Jan 10, 2020

keras said:
The armies of heaven are angel beings. Proved by Matthew 16:27....coming with His angels...
In no way is Jesus army humans. Jesus will bring the souls of the martyrs with Him and they will be brought back to life then. Revelation 20:4

Please cease posting unscriptural nonsense.

Then you must think the wife who has made herself ready in Revelation 19:7 are meaning angels and not humans. Clearly this same wife seen in this verse is referring to the same armies seen coming with Christ in Revelation 19:14.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

What I have underlined above undeniably proves His wife and His armies are all one and the same. But that doesn't mean I agree with Pretrib then. It means I agree with the texts, while you apparently don't in this particular case.

keras · Jan 10, 2020

DavidPT said:
Then you must think the wife who has made herself ready in Revelation 19:7 are meaning angels and not humans. Clearly this same wife seen in this verse is referring to the same armies seen coming with Christ in Revelation 19:14.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

What I have underlined above undeniably proves His wife and His armies are all one and the same. But that doesn't mean I agree with Pretrib then. It means I agree with the texts, while you apparently don't in this particular case.

Your quote about the Marriage feast of the Lamb in Revelation 19:8-10, does not say where that event will happen. Thinking it is in heaven, is just a fanciful dream of yours, because the idea of humans going to heaven, is never said to happen in the Bible. Jesus said such a thing was impossible. John 3:13 Eventually God and therefore heaven; comes to the earth. Revelation 21:1-7

The idea of humans - we Christians; Returning with Jesus, riding white horses, is sci-fi and fiction far removed from the realms of possibility and a total contradiction of what the Bible does say will happen.

grafted branch · Jan 13, 2020

Douggg said:
I updated my chart visually to show the path in red from the beginning of the 7 years to Jesus's return. That it might be easier to follow, upper left corner to lower right corner.

It is not that complicated, as like it might seem at first glance.

confirmation of the covenant - day1
peace and safety, saying.
then the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act.
then he is killed for it.
then he is brought back to life as the beast.
then the image of the beast made, the abomination of desolation
then the great tribulation 1335 days (1290 +45)
then Armageddon, Jesus returns, day 2520.

View attachment 269734

I was looking at your chart and you show the 7th angel sounding at what looks like the midpoint of the 7 years. When the other 6 angels sound prior to this there are events such as 1/3 of the trees being burned up, 1/3 of the creatures in the sea die, 1/3 of the ships are destroyed, 1/3 part of the sun, moon, and stars are darkened and so on. You have Matthew 24:30a and b (the sign of the Son of man and the coming of the Son of man) occurring at 1215 and 1260 days later. However in Mathew 24:37-39 it describes the coming of the Son of man as in the days of Noe; where no one knew until the flood came.

Do you view the events that occur when the 7 angels sound as events that won’t be recognized by unbelievers? It would seem to me that if these types of catastrophes are to take place literally then people would defiantly be thinking that the world could be coming to an end.

Douggg · Jan 13, 2020

grafted branch said:
You have Matthew 24:30a and b (the sign of the Son of man and the coming of the Son of man) occurring at 1215 and 1260 days later.

Matthew 24:30a is 1290 days from the day the AoD is setup on Day 1185. And Matthew 24:30b is 1335 days from the day the Aod is setup on Day 1185.

I was looking at your chart and you show the 7th angel sounding at what looks like the midpoint of the 7 years

The 7th angel does not sound on the midpoint, but a little after. If you look at the chart, the 1260 days of the two witnesses end on the exact midpoint (noted on the chart). Then in Revelation 11:11, three and a half days later the two witnesses ascend and there is an earthquake in Jerusalem - and then the 7th angel sounds.

So it is not at the exact midpoint day of 1260 that the 7th angel in heaven sounds, but a little after. Thus, on my chart, the point on the down arrow is spaced a little after the point of the up arrow for the two witnesses.

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
___________________________________________________________
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

John has seen what the second woe was (back in Revelation 9) , and is about to see what the third woe is shortly in the set of visions (in the next one in Revelation 12)
____________________________________________________________

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

This is when God says (in my words) enough is enough, that's the final straw, you (Satan) have killed my two witnesses, reigned over the nations with terror ever since you tempted man to sin, and now I am ending your kingdom and you as being a terror, and setting my Kingdom over the nations of the earth.

When the 7th trumpet blows, that is the signal for Michael and his angels, to cast Satan and his angels down to earth from the (second) heaven. It doesn't say second heaven in the text of Revelation 12, but it is implied because the Satan's home will be there no more - as later in the sixth seal the second heaven, the cosmos is pulled aside, to reveal the third heaven where God's throne is.

Cast down earth, it is Babylon is fallen is fallen, the kingdom of Satan, is coming to an end. Satan knows that he has but a little time left when that happens. And has great wrath, to take out on the people of the earth. That wrath is the third woe, as associated with the sounding of the last of the 3 angels woe trumpets back in Revelation 8:13, to "the inhabiters of the earth".

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Satan, falling to earth, is about to unleash his anger - by opening the bottomless pit, as apparently the keys are tossed to him on his way down. Out of that pit will come a horde of demons, some disguised as freakest flesh tormenting locust, and wicked angels, including Abbaddon the ringleader.

It will be time for their end as well.

The time allotted to Satan after he is cast down will be a time, times, half times (from Revelation 12:14) - basically the second half of the seven years, but a little less than 1260 days for the reasons of the 3 1/2 days and the amount of earth time that passes as the war in the second heaven take.

Douggg · Jan 13, 2020

grafted branch said:
When the other 6 angels sound prior to this there are events such as 1/3 of the trees being burned up, 1/3 of the creatures in the sea die, 1/3 of the ships are destroyed, 1/3 part of the sun, moon, and stars are darkened and so on.

The six trumpet judgments will occur in that sequence. Whether the first four or part of are the plagues associated with the two witnesses, it may or may not be. Or whether all six take place after Satan is cast down to earth. The sixth one, I am sure is near the very end of the 7 years as the nations are pulled into the middle east, as the battles in Daniel 11:40-44.

I don't show the trumpet judgments on my chart, because I don't have room, nor can I determine for certain where they would go. As well as, the bowls of God's wrath, which I tend to think are poured out in the latter parts of the second half.

The only one of the bowls of wrath I show on my chart is the 7th because it can be pinpointed as being after the nations have assembled their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus.

However in Mathew 24:37-39 it describes the coming of the Son of man as in the days of Noe; where no one knew until the flood came.

It is talking about the general timeframe of the parable of the fig tree generation, of Jesus returning in our generation.

Do you view the events that occur when the 7 angels sound as events that won’t be recognized by unbelievers? It would seem to me that if these types of catastrophes are to take place literally then people would defiantly be thinking that the world could be coming to an end.

The unbelievers will no doubt, because all will hear the voice from heaven and see the dead two witnesses, that had been causing trouble for them with the plagues, come back to life and ascend to heaven.

The people of the world at that time, except the saints, will be putting their faith in the beast, thinking that he will be able to conquer the threat to their existence. God and them in heaven will be cast, by the beast and false prophet, as the evil persons, in the upside down world at that time, when the beast is being worshiped, as well as the image of him, incarnated by the cast down to earth Satan.

My latest chart (number 3)

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Newbie

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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