Holiness theology.

Aussie Pete

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I confess to a degree of irritation with some of the "holiness" posts and so I want to clarify my objections.
Suppose you were able to take just one book of the Bible with you on a long journey? What would you take? Exodus? Deuteronomy? Maybe Hebrews? Personally, I would take Ephesians. You may ask why.
Paul starts His letter to the Ephesians with some wonderful declarations as to what we have and who we are in Christ. Then he encourages the believers, telling them that they are sealed in Christ with the promised Holy Spirit. He goes on to pray that the Ephesian believers will come to see the wonderful salvation that is ours in Christ. I'll not try to produce a commentary on Ephesians, that is not the point of this post.
When I read Ephesians, I am encouraged greatly because I am reminded of who I am in Christ. I am reminded that I've been adopted by God into His family. I am saved by grace, through faith - and that faith is the faith of Christ, not my meagre faith. So I can rest in the salvation that God has provided through Christ, confident in what He has done and not trusting in what I must do.
Now Paul does not stop there. He implores that the Ephesians live in a way worthy of their calling. He does not demand, command, threaten or condemn. His entreaty is based on the reality of the spiritual blessings that believers have. He's asking that believers turn away from their old way of life, not to gain salvation but because they are saved. He tells us not to grieve the Holy Spirit. He repeats that we are sealed in the Holy Spirit. He does not say that we are going to hell if we do grieve the Holy Spirit.
Holiness does not mean that a believer is free from sin. Holiness literally means to be set apart for sacred use. The believer should consecrate himself to God for the sake of God's Kingdom. Most Christians have no idea what holiness is, especially when they are first saved. Some Christians think that holiness is the same as sinlessness. Not so. The Christian life begins with being born again and receiving eternal life. That is unchanging. Christians at some time must choose to consecrate themselves entirely to God's purpose, accepting the Lordship of Christ unconditionally. That may take decades. You eternal security is settled in heaven. Your placement in God's kingdom is not. We have one opportunity in this life to become a vessel of honour (2 Timothy 2:21). It would be tragic to miss out on God's best by living a sloppy and careless life.
 

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"Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear;
for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.

If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss;
but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 NKJV
 
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Phil W

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I confess to a degree of irritation with some of the "holiness" posts and so I want to clarify my objections.
Suppose you were able to take just one book of the Bible with you on a long journey? What would you take? Exodus? Deuteronomy? Maybe Hebrews? Personally, I would take Ephesians. You may ask why.
Paul starts His letter to the Ephesians with some wonderful declarations as to what we have and who we are in Christ. Then he encourages the believers, telling them that they are sealed in Christ with the promised Holy Spirit. He goes on to pray that the Ephesian believers will come to see the wonderful salvation that is ours in Christ. I'll not try to produce a commentary on Ephesians, that is not the point of this post.
When I read Ephesians, I am encouraged greatly because I am reminded of who I am in Christ. I am reminded that I've been adopted by God into His family. I am saved by grace, through faith - and that faith is the faith of Christ, not my meagre faith. So I can rest in the salvation that God has provided through Christ, confident in what He has done and not trusting in what I must do.
Now Paul does not stop there. He implores that the Ephesians live in a way worthy of their calling. He does not demand, command, threaten or condemn. His entreaty is based on the reality of the spiritual blessings that believers have. He's asking that believers turn away from their old way of life, not to gain salvation but because they are saved. He tells us not to grieve the Holy Spirit. He repeats that we are sealed in the Holy Spirit. He does not say that we are going to hell if we do grieve the Holy Spirit.
Holiness does not mean that a believer is free from sin. Holiness literally means to be set apart for sacred use. The believer should consecrate himself to God for the sake of God's Kingdom. Most Christians have no idea what holiness is, especially when they are first saved. Some Christians think that holiness is the same as sinlessness. Not so. The Christian life begins with being born again and receiving eternal life. That is unchanging. Christians at some time must choose to consecrate themselves entirely to God's purpose, accepting the Lordship of Christ unconditionally. That may take decades. You eternal security is settled in heaven. Your placement in God's kingdom is not. We have one opportunity in this life to become a vessel of honour (2 Timothy 2:21). It would be tragic to miss out on God's best by living a sloppy and careless life.
I think my favorite part of Ephesians is chapter 2:1-3...
1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

I am grateful that the past is in the past, and that I no longer walk according to the course of this world and the prince of the power of the air...the devil...who still works in the children of disobedience.
Holiness is good !
 
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brinny

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I confess to a degree of irritation with some of the "holiness" posts and so I want to clarify my objections.
Suppose you were able to take just one book of the Bible with you on a long journey? What would you take? Exodus? Deuteronomy? Maybe Hebrews? Personally, I would take Ephesians. You may ask why.
Paul starts His letter to the Ephesians with some wonderful declarations as to what we have and who we are in Christ. Then he encourages the believers, telling them that they are sealed in Christ with the promised Holy Spirit. He goes on to pray that the Ephesian believers will come to see the wonderful salvation that is ours in Christ. I'll not try to produce a commentary on Ephesians, that is not the point of this post.
When I read Ephesians, I am encouraged greatly because I am reminded of who I am in Christ. I am reminded that I've been adopted by God into His family. I am saved by grace, through faith - and that faith is the faith of Christ, not my meagre faith. So I can rest in the salvation that God has provided through Christ, confident in what He has done and not trusting in what I must do.
Now Paul does not stop there. He implores that the Ephesians live in a way worthy of their calling. He does not demand, command, threaten or condemn. His entreaty is based on the reality of the spiritual blessings that believers have. He's asking that believers turn away from their old way of life, not to gain salvation but because they are saved. He tells us not to grieve the Holy Spirit. He repeats that we are sealed in the Holy Spirit. He does not say that we are going to hell if we do grieve the Holy Spirit.
Holiness does not mean that a believer is free from sin. Holiness literally means to be set apart for sacred use. The believer should consecrate himself to God for the sake of God's Kingdom. Most Christians have no idea what holiness is, especially when they are first saved. Some Christians think that holiness is the same as sinlessness. Not so. The Christian life begins with being born again and receiving eternal life. That is unchanging. Christians at some time must choose to consecrate themselves entirely to God's purpose, accepting the Lordship of Christ unconditionally. That may take decades. You eternal security is settled in heaven. Your placement in God's kingdom is not. We have one opportunity in this life to become a vessel of honour (2 Timothy 2:21). It would be tragic to miss out on God's best by living a sloppy and careless life.
Thank you.
 
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CharismaticLady

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I confess to a degree of irritation with some of the "holiness" posts and so I want to clarify my objections.
Suppose you were able to take just one book of the Bible with you on a long journey? What would you take? Exodus? Deuteronomy? Maybe Hebrews? Personally, I would take Ephesians. You may ask why.
Paul starts His letter to the Ephesians with some wonderful declarations as to what we have and who we are in Christ. Then he encourages the believers, telling them that they are sealed in Christ with the promised Holy Spirit. He goes on to pray that the Ephesian believers will come to see the wonderful salvation that is ours in Christ. I'll not try to produce a commentary on Ephesians, that is not the point of this post.
When I read Ephesians, I am encouraged greatly because I am reminded of who I am in Christ. I am reminded that I've been adopted by God into His family. I am saved by grace, through faith - and that faith is the faith of Christ, not my meagre faith. So I can rest in the salvation that God has provided through Christ, confident in what He has done and not trusting in what I must do.
Now Paul does not stop there. He implores that the Ephesians live in a way worthy of their calling. He does not demand, command, threaten or condemn. His entreaty is based on the reality of the spiritual blessings that believers have. He's asking that believers turn away from their old way of life, not to gain salvation but because they are saved. He tells us not to grieve the Holy Spirit. He repeats that we are sealed in the Holy Spirit. He does not say that we are going to hell if we do grieve the Holy Spirit.
Holiness does not mean that a believer is free from sin. Holiness literally means to be set apart for sacred use. The believer should consecrate himself to God for the sake of God's Kingdom. Most Christians have no idea what holiness is, especially when they are first saved. Some Christians think that holiness is the same as sinlessness. Not so. The Christian life begins with being born again and receiving eternal life. That is unchanging. Christians at some time must choose to consecrate themselves entirely to God's purpose, accepting the Lordship of Christ unconditionally. That may take decades. You eternal security is settled in heaven. Your placement in God's kingdom is not. We have one opportunity in this life to become a vessel of honour (2 Timothy 2:21). It would be tragic to miss out on God's best by living a sloppy and careless life.

I've loved 1 John for years now, and know it so well I can quote a lot of it. But recently I've gotten into 2 Peter 1. I also love Romans 8. I guess I love the victory we have in Jesus, so I love the doctrine of "holiness." If there was ever a role model, it is Jesus, the love of my life.
 
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Aussie Pete

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I've loved 1 John for years now, and know it so well I can quote a lot of it. But recently I've gotten into 2 Peter 1. I also love Romans 8. I guess I love the victory we have in Jesus, so I love the doctrine of "holiness." If there was ever a role model, it is Jesus, the love of my life.
Good choices all. Jesus is much more than a role model. He is the life of the believer, what makes us Christian. Most people's problems would evaporate if they let that truth get hold of them.
 
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Aussie Pete

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I think my favorite part of Ephesians is chapter 2:1-3...
1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

I am grateful that the past is in the past, and that I no longer walk according to the course of this world and the prince of the power of the air...the devil...who still works in the children of disobedience.
Holiness is good !
Define holiness.
 
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Aussie Pete

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"Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear;
for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.

If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss;
but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 NKJV
Yes. Trying to motivate people not to sin by threats of hell is wrong. It contradicts God's Word and puts the emphasis on what man does, not on what Christ has done.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Good choices all. Jesus is much more than a role model. He is the life of the believer, what makes us Christian. Most people's problems would evaporate if they let that truth get hold of them.

Well, being Charismatic I know your point very well. February 9, 1977 around 8 pm I was filled to overflowing with His Spirit, and the change in me was 180 degree about face. What makes us Christian is not knowing about verses, but abiding in Him, and most importantly, He abiding in us. That is something we can't take on faith. It is a literal experience.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Well, being Charismatic I know your point very well. February 9, 1977 around 8 pm I was filled to overflowing with His Spirit, and the change in me was 180 degree about face. What makes us Christian is not knowing about verses, but abiding in Him, and most importantly, He abiding in us. That is something we can't take on faith. It is a literal experience.
Yes. People can argue day and night about the gifts of the Spirit. I don't. I know that they are genuine. I know Jesus - His definition of eternal life. Some people get mad because I'm so definite. I'd rather they get mad than offend the One who loved me and gave Himself for me.
 
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Personally, I would take Ephesians. You may ask why.
Paul starts His letter to the Ephesians with some wonderful declarations
as to what we have and who we are in Christ.
Just FYI, Ephesians was written ONLY to the "faithful" saints (1:1, NKJV).
NOT to the unfaithful saints.
Ditto for Colossians (1:2, NKJV).
Marvel of all marvels ...
these are the 2 epistles which have the most glowing descriptions of believers, IMO.
Have a nice day!
 
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anna ~ grace

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I do think that there is an inherent danger in believing that as a Christian, we can not sin. It dulls us or completely numbs us to the possibility of our own weakness, failures, need for continual self-reflection and repentance, and can easily build up spiritual pride, which we not only can not detect, but would deny is even there.
 
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Phil W

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I do think that there is an inherent danger in believing that as a Christian, we can not sin. It dulls us or completely numbs us to the possibility of our own weakness, failures, need for continual self-reflection and repentance, and can easily build up spiritual pride, which we not only can not detect, but would deny is even there.
You have a kinda low esteem...or better said, expectations, of those reborn of God's seed and walking in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.

BTW, if you have turned from sin once, you won't need to keep turning.
 
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Phil W

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In that case, only God and the Christians who have passed away are holy. No one gets sinless perfection in this life.
That isn't what Paul wrote..."For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
And..."Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Rom 6:18)
And..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Nor Peter..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Nor John..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)
 
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Aussie Pete

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That isn't what Paul wrote..."For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
And..."Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Rom 6:18)
And..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Nor Peter..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Nor John..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)
Duel at 50 paces, weapons, the Word of God. "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

I suggest that you rethink your theology. According to that verse, the truth is not in you.
 
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Phil W

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Duel at 50 paces, weapons, the Word of God. "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

I suggest that you rethink your theology. According to that verse, the truth is not in you.
John is writing of TWO very different men and two very different kinds of walk in 1 John 1.
Some walk in the light, and have had ALL their sins washed away by the blood of Christ. They have fellowship with God.
The others walk in darkness and cannot say they have no sin.
Neither can they say they have fellowship with God.
I have been gracefully afforded a walk in the light, which is God.
I have also been gracefully afforded the means to remain in the light and in fellowship with God.

I hope you're not walking in darkness, which Pro 4:19 says is wickedness.
 
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