Christian Zionist "Replacement Theology"

thomas_t said:

Why not. The rapper Eminem also had multiple names.

When someone gets a new name... this doesn't mean the noone will get another name anymore. Second names are quite useful.
So Isaiah and Acts 11:26 aren't linked to each other. Both passages seem to be about names, that's all.

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I can't seem to find Eminem in my Bible. Did God give him his other names?

God called those in Israel who were His Servants by another name. (Isaiah 65:15, Acts 11:26)

What name (other than "slain", Isaiah 65:15) did God call those in Israel who were not His Servants?

thomas_t said:

This is where it gets REALLY aggressive. Jews as the object of your ethnic cleansing...
and then you state that you and your fellow believers will steal their lands away. You call that "Christian". I call that theft.

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I have to agree with you on your objection to this. It's harmful and - I believe - it completely goes against the nature of God. I agree with Dr. Barbara Rossing about how so many of these teachings amount to spiritual abuse:

jgr said:

I can't seem to find Eminem in my Bible. Did God give him his other names?

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It's a common occurence to have more than one name. That was what I am after.
But also in the Bible... there was a Jacob and all of a sudden he was called Israel. Same person - new name.
Your logic that Christians must be Israel since they were given a new name is flawed... If you can show that in the Bible only once throughout history a new name was given to an entity then you were right.
Your other questions might be interesting... but I don't see any connection to the topic at hand.

mkgal1 said:

I have to agree with you on your objection to this. It's harmful and - I believe - it completely goes against the nature of God.

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Absolutely. Thank you so much.

thomas_t said:

It's a common occurence to have more than one name. That was what I am after.
But also in the Bible... there was a Jacob and all of a sudden he was called Israel. Same person - new name.
Your logic that Christians must be Israel since they were given a new name is flawed... If you can show that in the Bible only once throughout history a new name was given to an entity then you were right.
Your other questions might be interesting... but I don't see any connection to the topic at hand.

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Question:

What other name (other than "slain", Isaiah 65:15) did God call those in Israel who were not His Servants?


Answer (Isaiah 65:15, Acts 11:26):

He gave no other name to those in Israel who were not His Servants.

He gave the name "Christians" to those in Israel who were His Servants.

Only those who are Christians are His Servants.

Physically, their name is still Israel.

But God did not give His Servants a new physical name.

Rather, He gave them a new spiritual name: "Christians".

He did not give those within Israel who were not His Servants that new spiritual name.

Within Israel, He gave that new spiritual name exclusively to His Servants.

That new spiritual name is reserved exclusively for spiritual servants.

His Servants.

thomas_t said:

Not one of the posted sciptures rule out that there are two sets of promises.
It's just your supposition.
God still works with Israel.
Thomas

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Yes, but note well; they do not work with Him!

And God does have a future for the Jewish State of Israel. It is for their disaster and virtual wipeout. Over 20 prophesies tell us He will do that to them. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Isaiah 22:14, Romans 9:27, +

It is an absolute falsehood to say God has Two Promises; Two People.
This idea is never stated in the Bible, it is only made up to suit those with another agenda for the end times.

thomas_t said:

However, the Jew is one who is a Jew inwardly, Romans 2:29.
.

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Here is where you destroy your own premise.
The facts are that .05% [if that] of the current citizens of the Jewish State of Israel are Jews inwardly.
Israel does not allow Christians to become citizens and those there now are persecuted and face jail if caught proselytizing.
Ezekiel 21:1-8 is one of the many prophesies that tell us what will happen in the holy Land, when the Lord destroys His enemies. Jeremiah 12:14

thomas_t said:

Not every Israelite will end up in heaven as they might be numbered among the non-true Israelites.

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thomas_t said:
Not every Israelite will end up in heaven as they might be numbered among the non-true Israelites.

mkgal1 said:

I believe this post may have been overlooked or missed, so I'm bringing it back up.​

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As there is nowhere in the Bible where it says the Israelites will go to heaven, this premise is invalid and just fictional.
God knows who are His true Israelites. That are those who believe in Him, keep His Commendments and accept the Atoning sacrifice of Jesus. Literally the Overcomers for Him; the Israelites of God.
That they are mainly people who have descended from the ten Northern tribes, is God's secret, the people hidden and scattered among the nations. As we Christians are.

Soon we will be gathered and the Lord promises great Blessings to us. Ezekiel 34:11-16

mkgal1 said:

I believe this post may have been overlooked or missed, so I'm bringing it back up.​

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Thanks, mkgal1.

@jgr it's not mine to decide who individually belongs to sprititual Israel. God is the judge,
he judges individuals. Not me.
But one thing is sure: true Israelites... are true Israelites. Not Christians (appart from Messianic Jews, who are both).

keras said:

The facts are that .05% [if that] of the current citizens of the Jewish State of Israel are Jews inwardly.

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It's presumtion. You didn't back it up by anything. Let them decide themselves who belongs to them. I don't think I just destroyed my own premise.

keras said:

And God does have a future for the Jewish State of Israel. It is for their disaster and virtual wipeout. Over 20 prophesies tell us He will do that to them. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Isaiah 22:14, Romans 9:27, +

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yes all Israel will be saved: Romans 11:26. Your other passages don't tell about the destruction of Israel as a whole.
I don't think it is falsehood to believe that God has 2 sets of promises for two different peoples. It's a great God, he is able to make various promises. I don't try to serve the standpoint of the ones you say I want to serve.

keras said:

Israel does not allow Christians to become citizens and those there now are persecuted and face jail if caught proselytizing.

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The only thing that is illegal in Israel regarding proselytizing is offering material benefits as an inducement to conversion, and proselytizing minors.

If by persecution, you mean harassment by religious groups, such as the haredi, then yes, that occurs for certain.

thomas_t said:

It's presumtion. You didn't back it up by anything. Let them decide themselves who belongs to them. I don't think I just destroyed my own premise.

yes all Israel will be saved: Romans 11:26. Your other passages don't tell about the destruction of Israel as a whole.
I don't think it is falsehood to believe that God has 2 sets of promises for two different peoples. It's a great God, he is able to make various promises. I don't try to serve the standpoint of the ones you say I want to serve.

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Statistical facts tell us that only about 15 to 20 thousand Jews are Christians, of a population of 7 million. Do the math.

How many times must we tell you that the Jewish State of Israel is NOT the only Israel. Galatians 6:14-16 says only faithful Christians are the Israel of God.

Here is more Bible prophecy about the fate of Jewish Israel:
Many scriptures state how the Lord will clear and cleanse all of the holy Land, Deuteronomy 32:43, to enable His righteous people to gather and settle there. This will happen before the Return, as they are designated to be His witnesses, to be a light to the nations and to send out 144,000 missionaries to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:18b-21

Here are some of the prophesies that confirm how the Land will be virtually emptied:

Zephaniah 1:4-18 I shall stretch out My hand over Judah, over all that live in Jerusalem. On the Day of the Lord’s sacrifice, I shall wipe out all traces of idol worship and I will punish all those complacent people. All who commit crimes of violence and fraud will fall with a great crash. The great Day of the Lord is near and coming fast - His Day of wrath and distress onto the peoples. Their blood and guts will pour out like dung upon the ground and nothing can save them from the fire of His judgement. He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the holy Land.

Habakkuk 3:16-17….I long for the Day of Disaster to dawn over our enemies. [Then, after that Day -] The fig tree has no buds, the vine has no harvest…there are no sheep in the fold and no cattle in the stalls.

Ezekiel 15:8 I will make the Land a waste, for My people have broken faith.

Jeremiah 10:18…This time I shall throw out the whole population of the Land.

Ezekiel 21:3 Say to the Land: I am against you, I shall draw My sword of slaughter and make away with both the righteous and wicked alike.

Isaiah 10:23 The Lord will bring a final destruction upon the whole Land.

Isaiah 6:11-13…cities will be ruined, houses left without occupants and the Land will lie desolate and a waste. Only a stump remains – a holy seed. [In Jerusalem]

Zechariah 3:9 In a single Day, I shall wipe away all evil from the holy Land.

Amos 1:1-15, Amos 2:5 I shall send fire onto Judah, fire to consume their palaces.

Jeremiah 11:16 Once you were My people, now, with a great noise you will be burned and consumed. Luke 19:27

Isaiah 10:17-19 The Lord will become a fire that in a single Day will destroy His enemies. Suddenly the trees and pastures of His holy Land will be consumed, what will remain will be so few, a child could count them.

Jeremiah 9:21-22 Death has come to our towns, corpses lie like dung in the streets.

Joel 1:19-20…fire has consumed the pastures and burned every tree in the Land. All the streams have dried up.

Jeremiah 9:10-11 The Land is scorched and untrodden, not even birds or beasts remain. Jerusalem and the towns of Judah are ruined and uninhabited.

Jeremiah 33:10 Judah and Jerusalem lie in ruins, uninhabited by man or beast.

Jeremiah 4:26-28 I looked and the fruitful Land was like a desert, all its towns lay in ruins before the Lord’s fierce anger. The Lord says: The entire holy Land will be devastated, but I will not destroy it completely. The earth will mourn and the sky will be darkened, because what I have said I will do and I will not relent or change My plan.
Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses condensed.

thomas_t said:

@jgr it's not mine to decide who individually belongs to sprititual Israel. God is the judge,
he judges individuals. Not me.
But one thing is sure: true Israelites... are true Israelites. Not Christians (appart from Messianic Jews, who are both).

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God judged between the Israelites who were not His Servants, and those who were. (Isaiah 65:15).

To the former, He did not give another name; and slew them.

They were not true Israelites because they were not true to Him.

God did not slay true Israelites.

To the latter, He gave another name ("Christians", Acts 11:26); and declared them to be His Servants.

They were true Israelites.

Because they were true to Him.

I'm against Jews being the object of your fantasies concerning ethnic cleasing.

keras said:

Statistical facts tell us that only about 15 to 20 thousand Jews are Christians, of a population of 7 million. Do the math.

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the math? Keras please. You stated in post #827 that .05 of Israelis are Jews inwardly. Now you come up with maths concerning Christians. Don't simply swap them. Don't repeat your replacment all the time, please.

keras said:

How many times must we tell you that the Jewish State of Israel is NOT the only Israel. Galatians 6:14-16 says only faithful Christians are the Israel of God.

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please stop doing so. We have had the debate about Israel of God in countless posts already. You have nothing to prove your opinion about who might be the Israel of God. Instead, you're reiterating yourself here, please let's stop our discussion here.

If you reply: I am against your replacement Jews for Christians, I am against everything you say concerning Israel... this is true even if I don't answer back. I am against any remarks discriminating Jews.

jgr said:

To the latter [faithful Israelites], He gave another name ("Christians", Acts 11:26)

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That doesn't mean that any Christian is necessarily an Israelite (I think this was your point).
Let me draw a comparison: some birds I call edible. But I won't call every very edible thing in the world a bird. I'm not stupid.

thomas_t said:

That doesn't mean that any Christian is necessarily an Israelite (I think this was your point).
L

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Not my point at all.

You ignored the key word faithful.

Only Israelites who are faithful to Him bear another, new name He has given them.

Their physical DNA does not determine whether or not they bear that new name.

Only their spiritual DNA of faith and obedience allows them to bear that new name.

Christians.

jgr said:

thomas_t said:

That doesn't mean that any Christian is necessarily an Israelite (I think this was your point).

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Not my point at all.

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jgr - in post#811 I said there is a difference between His Israelite people and the Christians.
Then, in your reply to this you said...

jgr said:

No difference at all.

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So please...
It's again replacement by your side what you're trying to convey. Substitution Christians for Israelites, which is wrong. Christians aren't necessariliy Israelites. Some of them are though.

Thomas

thomas_t said:

jgr - in post#811 I said there is a difference between His Israelite people and the Christians.
Then, in your reply to this you said...

So please...
It's again replacement by your side what you're trying to convey. Substitution Christians for Israelites, which is wrong. Christians aren't necessariliy Israelites. Some of them are though.

Thomas

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Israelites who were His Servants with His new name of "Christians" replaced Israelites who were not His Servants, did not have His new name of "Christians", and whom He slew.

thomas_t said:

I'm against Jews being the object of your fantasies concerning ethnic cleasing.

the math? Keras please. You stated in post #827 that .05 of Israelis are Jews inwardly. Now you come up with maths concerning Christians. Don't simply swap them. Don't repeat your replacment all the time, please.

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My fantasy? I posted 17 scriptures in #833, that say how the Lord will punish the Jews.

Paul's statement in Romans 2:17-29 confirms that only by becoming Christian, does a Jew become a true Jew. [Or a true Israelite of God]
You replies are like those of a petulant child, like one with a fixation that borders on foolishness.

thomas_t said:

I am against any remarks discriminating Jews.

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I suppose you belong to John Hagee's ; Christians for Israel, or some such group that idolizes the Jewish State of Israel, as though they are still Gods chosen people.
You show a serious lack of Bible knowledge to think that. Not only did God reject them, Matthew 21:43, but they rejected Him and cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25

In God's eyes, the Jews are just another nation of the world and to call them out for any aggressive, arrogant and racist behavior is what we should do and what God clearly says He will do in the near future.

Although it is frustrating to discuss issues with you, I do appreciate your tenacity and I continue to respond as you enable me to present the Biblical truth.