How to prove that GOD exists from a scientific point of view?

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Kylie

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When people foamed at the mouth, cut themselves and talked words from devils, people knew they had demons. When Jesus cast them out the people were of sound mind.

Would you care to show how "Demons" is the only possible explanation for these things? Because there are a ton of perfectly plausible medical conditions, such as epilepsy that would explain these symptoms without needing to invoke demons.
 
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SelfSim

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Heh. You act like this was some great accomplishment.
.. and you act like you're trying to pick a fight.
I offered the report as an update only because your post was off-topic.
jamesbond007 said:
You're still trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.
..
Are you going to claim that we will need a billion years for the chance that what these scientists claim will happen?
Give it a rest eh?
An update is just an update, dude.
jamesbond007 said:
If you cannot provide more information than what you said above, then I can just move on.
Move on anyway.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Wishful thinking. Prophets who lied were to be killed in ancient Israel. A prophet had better be telling the truth.
That presumably accounts for how vague and ambiguous so many prophesies were; if you make them sufficiently long-term or omit the dates, you're unlikely to be around in any case. Of course, they too were prone to embellishment and modification.

Jesus had His life witnessed by multitudes. It is not a sound proposition to claim all were delusional and making it up.
That's not how it works. Even today, estimates of crowd size can vary by a factor of 10 depending on who does the estimating (e.g. police or protestors); even for crowds seen on TV by billions, as at Trump's inauguration. Another interesting human trait is that the number of people claiming to have been at some newsworthy event increases with time - for some events more people claim to have been there than the venue could contain.

You don't need 'multitudes' to have stories of multitudes, and you don't need to break the laws of physics to have stories of miracles - people are suckers for unlikely or magical stories, and happy to exaggerate them - that's why tabloid newspapers sell so well; why psychics can fleece willing crowds; why it's the basis of a significant proportion of TV entertainment...

All of your reasons omit God.
You noticed?

Today, most believe in spirits as well, if I recall a survey I saw. All cultures of all ages of history on the planet also believed in the spiritual. Rather than all of mankind being primed, I suggest you are primed for disbelief.
I'm certainly primed to be sceptical... and people have believed in spirits, ghosts, pixies, elves, demons, faeries, witches, magical and mythical beasts, all manner of gods, and a huge variety of superstitions, throughout recorded history - without a jot or tittle of substantive evidence that any of them ever existed or had any effect on the world except through man's belief in them and stories about them.

On the other hand, we have a raft of research that suggests that, from an early age, children are very suggestible and have a strong propensity to ascribe agency to even random or unexplained events, to believe in magic and superstition, and that these propensities often persist into adulthood (touches wood, throws salt over shoulder, crosses fingers, says a prayer).

The vast variety of myths, legends, and superstitions are just what would be expected from propensities to superstitious and supernatural beliefs in general, where all are explanatory fictions - and not at all what we'd expect in the absence of such propensities, and if one particular supernatural storyline was actually real.

Most people would rather die than think and many of them do!” - Bertrand Russell.

Yes, reason has been a part of organized religion, ever since two nudists took dietary advice from a talking snake.” - Jon Stewart
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Would you care to show how "Demons" is the only possible explanation for these things? Because there are a ton of perfectly plausible medical conditions, such as epilepsy that would explain these symptoms without needing to invoke demons.
Let alone audience participation effects used these days by money-grabbing fundamentalist "Throw away the crutches!" showmen, and the 'talking in tongues', the collapsing at a touch, the ecstatic seizures, and, of course, the miraculous chiming of the cash register. Amazing, the wonders that a willing and gullible audience and a bit of charisma can work!
 
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Bungle_Bear

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Completely false. She was tickled pink! She agreed wholeheartedly.

Lu 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
That doesn't show willingness to participate, it simply demonstrates resignation to something she could not avoid. Please quote the verse where Mary was asked beforehand if she would be amenable to being abused.
 
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SLP

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A Christian scientist a few years ago told me that GOD was beyond science so people had to approach HIM based upon faith, like, he is outside of space and time. GOD is an immaterial spirit, right?

Some people have used logic and science, including archaeology and math, to argue away the existence of GOD per say, but not all scientists are atheists. Some of them actually do believe in GOD.

Dad says that complexity of human DNA proves that there is an intelligent creator behind the existence of mankind. He points to that as evidence of GOD and of his faith.

Some of these university professors, who have PHDs and a lot of education under their belt, like to say that GOD does not exist because its not smart or something like that.

Well, I was born pretty smart (for a human) and I still believed anyway. So why does belief in God possibly make me stupid? It does not is what I am saying.

For someone who, unlike me, won't believe on their own and they need, like, science to try and help them find GOD, what should I say to them? Is there any scientific evidence to support GOD?

I don't think GOD can actually be found by science. Science deals strictly with the earthly realm, or with what can be seen visibly, so if one is going to find HIM they have to step outside of this world based upon faith.

So GOD is an immaterial spirit, meaning HE is not confined to what can be seen and measured, HE is beyond all of it. Therefore science is unable to either prove or disprove HIS existence. And it probably never will prove HIS existence anyway.
Sorry, there is no real evidence for the deity depicted in what we call the bible.
 
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dad

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There was a time when a lack of understanding of illness (particularly mental illness) led people to misattribute such things to the supernatural.
Did you not realize that it is the lack of understanding of the spiritual, and it's denial that is the mental illness??

Fortunately we have a much better understanding of those things today and don't need to resort to supernaturalism to explain them.
You chose what to believe. Not like science can declare the spirits real or not. Just because you could not possibly detect any influences in the physical world from spirits (but would attribute it all to things physical, since that is all you can deal with in science) does not mean there are not any. It just means you have cornered yourself, and will/cannot see to the end of the block.
But as you've explained to us, since that happened in the past we can't verify those stories today.
Not true. Not sure why you make stuff up about what I say. History and Scripture tell us a lot about the past.
 
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Kylie

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Did you not realize that it is the lack of understanding of the spiritual, and it's denial that is the mental illness??

You chose what to believe. Not like science can declare the spirits real or not. Just because you could not possibly detect any influences in the physical world from spirits (but would attribute it all to things physical, since that is all you can deal with in science) does not mean there are not any. It just means you have cornered yourself, and will/cannot see to the end of the block.

Medicine has a proven track record of actually producing results when it comes to treatments for mental illnesses. Religion does not.
 
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dad

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The difference is that I added an explanation to my statement, you did not.
That was already dealt with.

Unfortunately, the bits about the prophecy in Daniel were added by anonymous authors after the fact.
Speculative nonsense with no basis in fact.

Plenty have failed.
None at all. Not one.

Except I've explained the basis for them, haven't I? You're the one who makes unsupported arguments.
Opinion.
 
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dad

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Would you care to show how "Demons" is the only possible explanation for these things? Because there are a ton of perfectly plausible medical conditions, such as epilepsy that would explain these symptoms without needing to invoke demons.
It is the explanation Jesus and the people living with them knew to be true. You cannot look only at the physical to detect spirits. Ever consider that the brains of the people possessed in Jesus' day may have had higher or lower levels of something or other? The one guy had a deaf spirit, and his hearing was affected. Etc
 
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dad

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That doesn't show willingness to participate, it simply demonstrates resignation to something she could not avoid. Please quote the verse where Mary was asked beforehand if she would be amenable to being abused.
No. God asks that we use our will to chose. All through the bible.
 
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dad

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Let alone audience participation effects used these days by money-grabbing fundamentalist "Throw away the crutches!" showmen, and the 'talking in tongues', the collapsing at a touch, the ecstatic seizures, and, of course, the miraculous chiming of the cash register. Amazing, the wonders that a willing and gullible audience and a bit of charisma can work!
Looking at history, I don't think we could say that was the case with Aimee Semple McPherson.
 
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dad

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Medicine has a proven track record of actually producing results when it comes to treatments for mental illnesses. Religion does not.
The track record in some cases (unlike over drug prescribing, lobotomies etc) is fine. Never has any hospital healed the deaf in an instant, the blind, raised the dead, and etc. No comparison. Calling modern medical science crude, backward, and cave-man like in comparison would be accurate. (although it would give them too much credit)
 
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Michael

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Medicine has a proven track record of actually producing results when it comes to treatments for mental illnesses. Religion does not.

I would say that's false. There are plenty of examples of murders and criminals galore embracing religion/God and setting their lives straight as a result.
 
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Michael

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I'm certainly primed to be sceptical... and people have believed in spirits, ghosts, pixies, elves, demons, faeries, witches, magical and mythical beasts, all manner of gods, and a huge variety of superstitions, throughout recorded history - without a jot or tittle of substantive evidence that any of them ever existed or had any effect on the world except through man's belief in them and stories about them.

And they also believed in Ptolemy, and believed that leaches cured diseases, believed in "dark energy" and all kinds of goofy things that are associated with "science". That's not a good reason to throw out science as a whole however.
 
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Kylie

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That was already dealt with.

Care to explain this? What you posted is not evidence, and you need to do more than disagree with me to show that it is evidence.

Speculative nonsense with no basis in fact.

I would never dream of posting such and infringing on your modus operandi.

None at all. Not one.

Many.


So it's just opinion that you make unsupported arguments?

Every single response you made in this post was an unsupported argument. You did not back up ANY of your answers. You just made claims, because that's all you ever have. Loud claims, with no support.
 
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Kylie

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It is the explanation Jesus and the people living with them knew to be true. You cannot look only at the physical to detect spirits. Ever consider that the brains of the people possessed in Jesus' day may have had higher or lower levels of something or other? The one guy had a deaf spirit, and his hearing was affected. Etc

Can you show it true today?

My sister in law had a miscarriage and suffered greatly from depression. It ruined her relationship with her partner. She still suffers from it today. Depression is a mental illness, so prove to me she was being attacked by a demon and that it WASN'T the death of her unborn baby that caused it.
 
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Kylie

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The track record in some cases (unlike over drug prescribing, lobotomies etc) is fine. Never has any hospital healed the deaf in an instant, the blind, raised the dead, and etc. No comparison. Calling modern medical science crude, backward, and cave-man like in comparison would be accurate. (although it would give them too much credit)

Such a shame that you can provide nothing more than stories to support your position that such ailments were ever healed instantly.
 
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Kylie

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I would say that's false. There are plenty of examples of murders and criminals galore embracing religion/God and setting their lives straight as a result.

Are you saying that being a criminal is a mental illness?

Show me someone with epilepsy who was cured because of religion. Show me someone who was bipolar, but then found God and was cured.

BTW, I can show you lots of people who were murderers etc who then became changed people after finding Islam. Do you consider that support that the Muslims have it right, or does this line of logic only apply to your own faith?
 
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Michael

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Are you saying that being a criminal is a mental illness?

Ya, I'd say that it's a form of mental illness in many (probably not all) cases.

Show me someone with epilepsy who was cured because of religion. Show me someone who was bipolar, but then found God and was cured.

I'm not suggesting that religion is a valid substitute for science in all cases, but you yourself suggested that depression is a form of mental illness, and many people have found relief from depression by embracing God/religion. If you look at the "placebo effect", even mere "belief" can have physical effects however, so it's possible that some "diseases" could even be cured by embracing a religious perspective.

BTW, I can show you lots of people who were murderers etc who then became changed people after finding Islam. Do you consider that support that the Muslims have it right, or does this line of logic only apply to your own faith?

I intentionally did not restrict the process to a specific religion.
 
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