What About Dinosaurs?

coffee4u

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And I believe you're quite wrong.

Sorry, I thought I quoted that, but it appears I didn't. Here we are:

1 Corinthians 11:
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Now it seems apparent to me that you do not take these verses literally, because you do not believe that the bread and the wine are literally our Lord's Body and Blood, even though He explicitly says they are. Seems to me that St. Paul is trying to drive that point home by saying that those who eat and drink "not discerning the Lord's body" "eateth and drinketh damnation". Hard to discern what you don't believe is there at all, wouldn't you say?

And of course, my point was the inconsistency of those who insist that Genesis should betaken literally, but the actual words of our Lord Himself, speaking of Himself, should not. Again, that seems to me 180 degrees out of phase. ( BTW, this is the primary reason I no longer consider myself a Protestant.)

You realize this is way off-topic for this thread?

But to answer the question I and most protestants believe this to be symbolic the same way when Jesus said
John 6
35 “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

Jesus was talking of coming to him to be spiritually fed.

We view communion in the same way. We remember the Lord's death and resurrection but do not believe it literally turns into flesh and blood.
First of all because that would be bringing Christ down from heaven to be sacrificed again- which is why I quoted the other verse saying Christ was crucified once. We believe the Lord now has a heavenly resurrected body. Secondly, consuming human flesh and blood is cannibalism and that is disgusting. I would never believe the Lord would agree or partake in cannibalism.

The Blasphemy of Transubstantiation

I do not plan on answering any more on this as I am sure you were already quite aware of protestant belief on this doctrine before you asked.
 
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miamited

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Hi chilehed,

You wrote:
It really doesn't. Again, it's not intended to be a natural history text.

For my own enlightenment, so that I might also appreciate your position, can you explain for me a text that is 'natural' history, and how it is different in what it expects us to understand from it, than a text that is only historical? Is the account of John Kennedy's life that one might find in a biography not to be believed because it isn't 'natural' history, but merely historical?

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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Gregory Thompson

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One reason I believe but have some doubt about the bible is because man found dinosaur fossils and other things that confirm the Earth is older than the bible says. So if the bible is true, why doesn't it mention Dinosaurs? If it's true, then why does it say the earth is only thousands of years old?
Behemoth mentioned by Job sounds like a brontosaur, and the original Leviathan before it grew more heads sounds like the description of a plaisiosaur. Also the word dinosaur didn't exist until there was latin, perhaps dragon is the word that is commonly translated.

The Iron beast is even fuelled by the dragon, and our cars use "fossil" fuels. so it's in there's just not that specific word.
 
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solid_core

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LOL... you're funny... did you happen to have a picture of the south end of a north bound hippo? Check it's tail.... not quite like a cedar tree
...and for @coffee4u

If the "tail as cedar tree" is the only thing that worries you, then you should know it can also mean "penis" :)

Dinosaurs with "tail as big as cedar" literally would not hide in reeds, anyway.

Or, if you wish to stick with common meaning - tail:
One of the most confused points is the description of the tail of the Behemoth. It does not say it looks like a cedar tree, or that it is a big as a cedar. Verse 17 says, “He makes his tail stiff like a cedar; …” (ESV). The King James and ASV translate it, “He moveth his tail like a cedar:” The verb in this phrase (“makes stiff”, or “moveth”) is “kha-phets” (חפץ) which means to “incline toward, bend, or move.” It sometimes takes on the figurative meaning of “to take delight in, favor, or desire”. The comparison to a “cedar” has nothing to do with the “tail’s” size or shape. It has to do with its “rigidity”, the “way it moves” is like the firm cedar. Rather than being just a draping tail, it has the ability to stiffen out like a tree. Dr. Barnes tells us that this best fits the type of tail associated with the hippopotamus of the Nile.
The Behemoth in Job 40:15-24
 
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jahel

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I rather like the white bird.
 
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Neogaia777

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How old does the Bible say the Earth is?
It actually says that an entire creation from it's beginning to it's ending consists of a grand total of seven of His days...

Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:4... With Genesis 2:4 reading (in some translations) of all preceding it being "an entire history of and/a/our heavens and a/our/the earth or an entire creation in the days of one or their being made and/or created (and being finished), etc... Anyway, a "history" of that before Genesis 2:4, stated in Genesis 2:4... Everything after Genesis 2:4 and beginning with Genesis 2:5 is all in day 6 after that, etc, and we are still in day 6 now, etc...

Day 7 starts after Armageddon and after Christ returns and rule and reign and has set up His Kingdom on Earth and lasts until the ending of this Creation after that, etc... While the Father get His rest, etc... Until a new heavens and new earth are to be made and/or started and/or are to begin again, etc, and this one is dissolved or is completely done away with, etc, and things start over again and begin again anew...

Genesis 2:5 is talking about the "region" of the Garden of Eden in the earth, etc, that it had not been made to rain there yet in that region, or plants had not been made to sprout up there in that region yet, and His specially created man had not been made and/or created there yet... But it all took place on day 6, etc...

Again see my post #102 and read the darn links, would you...

But there is absolutely "no conflict" between what man has learned and/or discovered in science about evolution and that the universe and the earth is very, very old, etc, except that you have to believe in a specially created Garden of Eden and Man or race of Man on day 6 in a specific specified and chosen by God "region" in the earth, etc, that eventually become intermixed with the others, etc, after they had fallen and were cast out from the Garden, etc... And that's where were at today, etc, but still all in and on day 6, etc...

God Bless!
 
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solid_core

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Behemoth mentioned by Job sounds like a brontosaur, and the original Leviathan before it grew more heads sounds like the description of a plaisiosaur. Also the word dinosaur didn't exist until there was latin, perhaps dragon is the word that is commonly translated.

The Iron beast is even fuelled by the dragon, and our cars use "fossil" fuels. so it's in there's just not that specific word.
Why would God said to Job "look at..."and then started to describe animal Job had no chance to see alive?
 
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chilehed

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For my own enlightenment, so that I might also appreciate your position, can you explain for me a text that is 'natural' history...
Natural History is the field of study of biology and geology: the physical development of the universe and of organisms. Have you never been to a Natural History museum?
 
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Neogaia777

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#1. I asked the OP; not you.

#2. That's cute.

#3. If you think I have any intention of sifting through over 100 posts just to search for yours... well, use your imagination.
Fine, post #102:

Here you go:

Genesis and Creation, Days are long "ages" ect...?

With special attention to these posts here:

Genesis and Creation, Days are long "ages" ect...?

And this post and the links in them here:

Genesis and Creation, Days are long "ages" ect...?

All you have to do is click on them and they will take you straight to them, but don't worry, I know your not interested in "the truth" anyway...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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#1. I asked the OP; not you.

#2. That's cute.

#3. If you think I have any intention of sifting through over 100 posts just to search for yours... well, use your imagination.
And if I'm "cute" then your "dumb", no offense...

God Bless!
 
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ViaCrucis

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When Christ says "This is my body" and breaks the bread... Did it become His body then?
When Christ says "This is my blood" when He dipped the bread in the wine.. did it become blood?

He said it was didn't He?

But just so we're clear:

When Jesus Christ, very God Himself, says "This is My body" that's not literal. Because...?

But when in Genesis we read the poetic refrain of "it was evening and it was morning" where there's literally no way to record evenings and mornings without the sun, that has to be literal 24 hour periods. Because...?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Cross Over the Lake

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I like dinosaurs. I have for a long time. When I was a kid I used to watch Unsolved Mysteries episodes about aliens. What I am getting at is, dinosaur and mammoth fossils have never swayed my faith, and I still haven’t come across a UFO or alien life form. When I see clouds coming off the back of a plane I don’t think it’s a chem trail. I choose to use a magnifying glass not a microscope.

God gave me the grace of free will, and a embrace the Father for giving me such a gift. For without it I may never have come to know Him.
 
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Ronald

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Obviously, that's what we do.

But it does no such thing. What was the definition of an evening and a morning when there was no sun?
Jesus meant, eat this bread in remebrance of me as a symbol of my body and drink this wine as a symbol for my blood. It is symbolic. Don't tell me it is His physical flesh and blood. Catholics believe that, you may, but I do not. I know what blood tastes like and what bread tastes like. His body resurrected into an eternal spiritual body. He is the Word and we consume the Word, all that He said and is and we remember his bodily sacrifice and shed blood every time we have have communion.
He created light (physical particles and waves, the spectrum) before the sun. Where do you suspect that light came from? Him. So the morning and evening were exactly as if the sun was present - capisce?
 
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coffee4u

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...and for @coffee4u

If the "tail as cedar tree" is the only thing that worries you, then you should know it can also mean "penis" :)

Dinosaurs with "tail as big as cedar" literally would not hide in reeds, anyway.

Or, if you wish to stick with common meaning - tail:
One of the most confused points is the description of the tail of the Behemoth. It does not say it looks like a cedar tree, or that it is a big as a cedar. Verse 17 says, “He makes his tail stiff like a cedar; …” (ESV). The King James and ASV translate it, “He moveth his tail like a cedar:” The verb in this phrase (“makes stiff”, or “moveth”) is “kha-phets” (חפץ) which means to “incline toward, bend, or move.” It sometimes takes on the figurative meaning of “to take delight in, favor, or desire”. The comparison to a “cedar” has nothing to do with the “tail’s” size or shape. It has to do with its “rigidity”, the “way it moves” is like the firm cedar. Rather than being just a draping tail, it has the ability to stiffen out like a tree. Dr. Barnes tells us that this best fits the type of tail associated with the hippopotamus of the Nile.
The Behemoth in Job 40:15-24

Lol whether the cedar tree refers to a tail or a penis, it's one dang large appendage and certainly larger than what the largest hippo has.

Main point being this description could easily be referring to a dinosaur and the only reason people say it can't be a dinosaur is because the general population don't believe man and dinosaurs coexisted. Is there any other reason? I don't know who this Dr. Barnes is but obviously he also doesn't want this chapter to be about a dinosaur because it would upset his preconceived beliefs that dinosaurs could not possibly have lived at the same time as man.

I notice Leviathan constantly gets overlooked, why is this? My guess is because it sounds more dinosaur sounding than behemoth.

“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook
or tie down its tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through its nose
or pierce its jaw with a hook?
3 Will it keep begging you for mercy?
Will it speak to you with gentle words?
4 Will it make an agreement with you
for you to take it as your slave for life?
5 Can you make a pet of it like a bird
or put it on a leash for the young women in your house?
6 Will traders barter for it?
Will they divide it up among the merchants?
7 Can you fill its hide with harpoons
or its head with fishing spears?
8 If you lay a hand on it,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!
9 Any hope of subduing it is false;
the mere sight of it is overpowering.
10 No one is fierce enough to rouse it.
Who then is able to stand against me?
11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.
12 “I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs,
its strength and its graceful form.
13 Who can strip off its outer coat?
Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?
14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth,
ringed about with fearsome teeth?
15 Its back has rows of shields
tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.
18 Its snorting throws out flashes of light;
its eyes are like the rays of dawn.
19 Flames stream from its mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.
20 Smoke pours from its nostrils
as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.
21 Its breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from its mouth.
22 Strength resides in its neck;
dismay goes before it.
23 The folds of its flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.
24 Its chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.
25 When it rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before its thrashing.
26 The sword that reaches it has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
27 Iron it treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.
28 Arrows do not make it flee;
slingstones are like chaff to it.
29 A club seems to it but a piece of straw;
it laughs at the rattling of the lance.
30 Its undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.
31 It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 It leaves a glistening wake behind it;
one would think the deep had white hair.
33 Nothing on earth is its equal—
a creature without fear.
34 It looks down on all that are haughty;
it is king over all that are proud.”

Finding dinosaurs in the Bible fits perfectly with Genesis that land and sea animals were made on day 5 and 6.
 
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JacksBratt

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...and for @coffee4u

If the "tail as cedar tree" is the only thing that worries you, then you should know it can also mean "penis" :)

Dinosaurs with "tail as big as cedar" literally would not hide in reeds, anyway.


Says you.. Sorry... Tail... means tail.. Loins... means Loins...
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Why would God said to Job "look at..."and then started to describe animal Job had no chance to see alive?
However, since it had a "tail like a cedar" and could drink up a river, the bones like bronze tend to lead to the conclusion, it's what is called a brontosaurus.

So why would God say that? good question, live in it.
 
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miamited

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Natural History is the field of study of biology and geology: the physical development of the universe and of organisms. Have you never been to a Natural History museum?

Hi chilehed,

Thanks for your response. So, it's your position that unless a written treatise concerning historical events discusses a matter through these fields of study, then the claims made by such a document are not to be trusted. If someone says that the 'pen is blue', but they don't offer up any evidence as to how the ink was created from some dying agents that would scientifically show that the ink in the pen is, in fact, flue ink, the person proclaiming the pen is blue could likely be wrong.

Would that about sum up your position regarding how 'natural' history effects the veracity of other historical claims? John Kennedy wasn't really ever on the PT 109 because we don't have that explained to us regarding the creation and construction of that particular boat through the natural processes of how metal is first smelted from the raw iron ores that make up the sheet metal and so forth?

God's proclamation that in six days He made the heavens and the earth and all that is in them, can't be trusted because God hasn't addressed the 'how' He did all of that in a way that suits your particular method of determining truth.

Thanks for your response, and I do appreciate it. However, I would hope that by stepping back and taking a serious look at this difference you seem to make about how 'natural' history and just plain history, has some bearing on the truth of claims made... such an argument doesn't really seem to really have much bearing on 'what is truth?' Natural history is just another study of history and the claims made of just plain historical facts and 'natural' history based facts can all be true.

So, I would agree wholeheartedly that the Scriptures are not writings that lay out the history of life upon the earth through the study of 'natural' history, but I'm not in agreement that such a position has any bearing on the validity of claims made.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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