the Mandela Effect...

Dave G. said:

I know I'm dredging up an old thread here. I met today with a very avid long term hard reading bible believer who knows the KJV pretty well ( I mean the kind of guy who reads 4-5 hours a day and almost everywhere in his bible is highlighted with various colored highlighters from meaningful things surrounding those texts over decades of study), he actually is or was one of the KJV only guys till he started seeing in print in his own worn KJV, changes, words and pieces of text he knows were not there before. And the thing is you can go to Bible Gateway and see the same words as his printed text. It was a very strange meeting today. But I'm here more interested in hearing if any other avid KJV folks here have seen changes ?

Incidentally, they were not in my NKJV. This guy was an avid KJV guy for many decades and has resorted to other translations now. We may not have ever realized how deep a deception is underway in these times we are in..

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Dave G., in answer to your question: No, I haven’t seen any changes in the KJV, but then I wouldn’t call myself an avid KJV reader.

If you’re curious about my position on the subject, you can read my previous posts here (and elsewhere), however, that doesn’t really matter because I’m not here to try to refute anything you wrote. I’m just here to ask you about something in your friend’s logic that I can’t quite make sense of.

Apparently, he started seeing things in his old KJV that he knows were not there before, and other copies of the KJV must have the same changes (otherwise he would have just used another KJV instead of switching versions), and even Bible Gateway has the same changes. If someone or something has the profoundly powerful supernatural ability to rewrite the text of practically every digital and printed copy of a book in the world, then we would have to consider the possibility that such an entity also has the power to rewrite memories in a human mind. If I could work some magic to actually move the ink on the pages of a centuries-old book across the world, then pulling some mind trick to replace the memories of a someone who has been reading the book for only a few decades should be a relatively easy task.

Did this ex-KJV-reader offer any explanation for how he knows that it was the text that was changed, and not his memories that were supernaturally changed?

[QUOTE="AbeSabre, post: 73401971, member: 411437"
Did this ex-KJV-reader offer any explanation for how he knows that it was the text that was changed, and not his memories that were supernaturally changed?[/QUOTE]
I considered most of what you have said here on the spot with this guy yesterday actually. He would have gone on all day about paradigms, conspiracy theories, end times, we have entered into the 7 years, it's too late for the true church etc etc... I left him with the thought that maybe he should get in touch with a really good bible doctorate holding pastor/ teacher. And I know just the one in Baltimore who has taught from the KJV for nearly 4 decades and it so happens this guy likes that pastors approach from the few messages he has heard from him. If there was a shift in text this pastor would know it with out doubt. But to answer your question, I had not considered a change in the readers mind by some sort of outside force !

Incidentally, it didn't end there but that's as far as I care to go for now. He thinks if he approaches someone about this they will have him locked up as crazy, I said that if these changes are as you say then the proof is in your hands of the bible he was holding. It was really bazaar.. He says that pastor David Wilkerson warned us of these things. And by the way there are websites you can go to and see the changes supposedly made, I came home and looked it up. I'm far from ready to buy into this but am curious what is really going on with the guy. I pray he doesn't have a nervous breakdown or hasn't already.

Dave G. said:

[QUOTE="AbeSabre, post: 73401971, member: 411437"
Did this ex-KJV-reader offer any explanation for how he knows that it was the text that was changed, and not his memories that were supernaturally changed?

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I considered most of what you have said here on the spot with this guy yesterday actually. He would have gone on all day about paradigms, conspiracy theories, end times, we have entered into the 7 years, it's too late for the true church etc etc... I left him with the thought that maybe he should get in touch with a really good bible doctorate holding pastor/ teacher. And I know just the one in Baltimore who has taught from the KJV for nearly 4 decades and it so happens this guy likes that pastors approach from the few messages he has heard from him. If there was a shift in text this pastor would know it with out doubt. But to answer your question, I had not considered a change in the readers mind by some sort of outside force !

Incidentally, it didn't end there but that's as far as I care to go for now. He thinks if he approaches someone about this they will have him locked up as crazy, I said that if these changes are as you say then the proof is in your hands of the bible he was holding. It was really bazaar.. He says that pastor David Wilkerson warned us of these things. And by the way there are websites you can go to and see the changes supposedly made, I came home and looked it up. I'm far from ready to buy into this but am curious what is really going on with the guy. I pray he doesn't have a nervous breakdown or hasn't already.[/QUOTE]


I’ve seen some of those websites and YouTube clips about the changes to the KJV, but, like you, I’m far from ready to buy into it too. Some months ago I wrote a lengthy post explaining a number of the supposed changes. If you’re interested in reading it you can look up the thread “The KJV Mandela effect conundrum (KJV only folks)”. My post is reply #36, posted July 15, 2018. In that post I included a link to website that claimed to have photographic proof of the Mandela Effect, but just now I checked and saw that the website has been taken down. I suspect that someone told the webmaster about the flaws in his “proof”, so he took down the site to avoid looking foolish.


I can certainly understand that you’re concerned about the guy who is telling you about paradigms and conspiracy theories and all that stuff. I know people who are absorbed in it all too. It’s very difficult to talk to them when they’re fixated on these things, but I think you nailed it right on in the last thing you said in your post: “I pray he doesn't have a nervous breakdown or hasn't already”. I think you got it exactly right; prayer is the best thing we can do when there doesn’t seem to be anything else we can do.

AbeSabre said:

I’ve seen some of those websites and YouTube clips about the changes to the KJV, but, like you, I’m far from ready to buy into it too. Some months ago I wrote a lengthy post explaining a number of the supposed changes. If you’re interested in reading it you can look up the thread “The KJV Mandela effect conundrum (KJV only folks)”. My post is reply #36, posted July 15, 2018. In that post I included a link to website that claimed to have photographic proof of the Mandela Effect, but just now I checked and saw that the website has been taken down. I suspect that someone told the webmaster about the flaws in his “proof”, so he took down the site to avoid looking foolish.


I can certainly understand that you’re concerned about the guy who is telling you about paradigms and conspiracy theories and all that stuff. I know people who are absorbed in it all too. It’s very difficult to talk to them when they’re fixated on these things, but I think you nailed it right on in the last thing you said in your post: “I pray he doesn't have a nervous breakdown or hasn't already”. I think you got it exactly right; prayer is the best thing we can do when there doesn’t seem to be anything else we can do.

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Thanks.

I've just tried to stress keeping Christ at the center. The man is isolated, he left church, left bible study and it seems when I change the subject from the devastation of the world to Christ at the center it doesn't go over well.

I don't think your old bible is changing, i remember that first verse on the first post, i think is just plain 'how we perceive things and remember them after a lot of years vs what they really are'

Dave G. said:

Thanks.

I've just tried to stress keeping Christ at the center. The man is isolated, he left church, left bible study and it seems when I change the subject from the devastation of the world to Christ at the center it doesn't go over well.

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I’ll pray for him.

Removed.

Lulav said:

Some say this is a result of what has been happening at CERN. Given the evidence presented it is supported that is where it is coming from.

I've also read things about Tesla and seen a few videos by a man who worked for the government who had studied Tesla's experiments, even ones that were classified and experimented on his own. This was basically on the dimensions.

Seems there are dimensions (what we call them but what I think in the Bible they are referred to as 'principalities') and they are separate 'places' mainly different planes where the different entities are allowed to 'live'.

It goes back I think to the 'after their own kind' and not mixing together.

This man (I'll have to find the notes I took) said that humans inhabit two planes that are very similar and that what's happening at CERN is causing the wavering back and forth between them.

If you've ever watch The Flash you will see that many others are aware of this but it's not Sci-Fi. They talk about Earth 1 and Earth 2 etc and that really is just another way of saying Dimension or Plane.

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So if you end up in the wrong dimension, is it because of something you did, said? How do you get back to the right one? Does anyone know you're missing?

This topic should be in the "conspiracy theories" section.

Hiscosmicgoldfish3 said:

The Mandela Effect is when our world or reality changes, and we remember another previous reality.

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You are getting your information from ambiguous sources while not researching more thoroughly to find the accurate information.

Hiscosmicgoldfish3 said:

One of the things that convinces me that we are living in the last days, is the alterations to the bible.

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You have accepted the statements from ungodly sources who don't believe in God.

Hiscosmicgoldfish3 said:

This is done across the board - very old printed copies of the bible are changed, going back to day one, as if it has always been like so. Concordances are changed. All bible versions are altered, but especially the King James.

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The King James changes, as with any other noted alterations in other Bible versions have been due to publishers updating the information that wasn't available in previous copies.

It's not because of the Mandela effect as seems to be used by the poster.. a vague power that changes reality. Below is an accurate explanation.


The Mandela Effect being applied to the Bible is an obvious attempt to discredit it. To take advantage of a person's lack of accurate memory concerning what the Bible says.. to make Christians question the authenticity and integrity of the Bible.. to make Christians question God's ability to keep His word accurate.


If the Mandela Effect were a true occurrence then why does it strike against the less remembered verses, to question their accuracy?

Hiscosmicgoldfish3 said:

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Does anyone remember Jesus saying the above in their reality? It is an alteration to me.

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That verse is found in the parable of the unfaithful servant. And yes, I did a study on that parable back in the mid 1980's. As I've read it other times since then.

The verse was there then as it is now.

Hiscosmicgoldfish3 said:

What about this one:

Matthew 26: 45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

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That verse has also been there as always.

Hiscosmicgoldfish3 said:

The following link is you a YouTube called EYA. She has made 800 videos showing the changes to the bible...

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Unwittingly or not, giving a link for Christians to look at concerning this topic, is being a shill, and or supporting a shill.

That person is not an authority on the Bible. The person is not a preacher or teacher that they should be trusted or considered that they are speaking truth.

Have you seen a video of a well known preacher/teacher of the Bible in support of the Mandela Effect on the Bible?
I'll answer my own question. NO.

Therefore, shouldn't that tell you something as to whether what EYA says would be valid or not?

Such videos by EYA are seeking to rattle the faith of believers. So why would/should any Christian speak about it as if any of it was true?

Hiscosmicgoldfish3 said:

EYA

It is not time travel. Some say it is due to quantum computers, which are able to source alternative dimensions. In my opinion, someone is doing the alterations, somewhere.

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Your opinion has been influenced by EYA. Your opinions are out of balance because of not doing proper research on the topic of the Mandela Effect.

fwGod said:

This topic should be in the "conspiracy theories" section.

You are getting your information from ambiguous sources while not researching more thoroughly to find the accurate information.
You have accepted the statements from ungodly sources who don't believe in God.
The King James changes, as with any other noted alterations in other Bible versions have been due to publishers updating the information that wasn't available in previous copies.

It's not because of the Mandela effect as seems to be used by the poster.. a vague power that changes reality. Below is an accurate explanation.

The Mandela Effect is a term for where a group of people all mis-remember the same detail, event or physicality.
The effect is somewhat different from a false memory as it effects large groups of people, seemingly without many connections and without the same emotional factors present. It also seems stronger and harder to escape the feeling that it’s simply a mis-remembering of a detail, which is why people are so adamant with claims of their memories.
As such, it’s often been hinted at that the Mandela Effect is closely related to cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance can be mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds beliefs, ideas, or values and is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.
Please note the use of “can be” as there is many purists that don’t accept the broader definition and scope of cognitive dissonance applying to memory versus reality. excerpt from http:// www.debunkingmandelaeffects.com/mandela-effect-introduction/​

The Mandela Effect being applied to the Bible is an obvious attempt to discredit it. To take advantage of a person's lack of accurate memory concerning what the Bible says.. to make Christians question the authenticity and integrity of the Bible.. to make Christians question God's ability to keep His word accurate.

Ps.119:89 "For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven."

1Pet.1:25 "But the word of the Lord abideth for ever.
And this is the word of good tidings which was preached unto you."​

If the Mandela Effect were a true occurrence then why does it strike against the less remembered verses, to question their accuracy?
That verse is found in the parable of the unfaithful servant. And yes, I did a study on that parable back in the mid 1980's. As I've read it other times since then.

The verse was there then as it is now.

That verse has also been there as always.

Unwittingly or not, giving a link for Christians to look at concerning this topic, is being a shill, and or supporting a shill.

That person is not an authority on the Bible. The person is not a preacher or teacher that they should be trusted or considered that they are speaking truth.

Have you seen a video of a well known preacher/teacher of the Bible in support of the Mandela Effect on the Bible?
I'll answer my own question. NO.

Therefore, shouldn't that tell you something as to whether what EYA says would be valid or not?

Such videos by EYA are seeking to rattle the faith of believers. So why would/should any Christian speak about it as if any of it was true?

Your opinion has been influenced by EYA. Your opinions are out of balance because of not doing proper research on the topic of the Mandela Effect.

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I've noticed this change in my bible...should it not be "heavens"?

Genesis 1 King James Version
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Lulav said: ↑
There's only one who really benefits from changing G-ds word, same as in Genesis 3.

AbeSabre said:

I find that statement ironic because an understanding of Genesis 3 makes clear what the real deception here is.

In the first verse of that chapter the serpent asked Eve, “hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?”. Eve obviously knew the correct answer to the question, but the serpent wasn't asking because he actually wanted to know the answer. This was just a deceptive tactic to put into Eve's mind some question like “Did God really say something like that or do I remember him saying something else?” Throughout that entire event the serpent never actually changed God’s word. I’m sure he would have liked to, but he didn’t have the power to literally rewrite God’s word, so instead he just deceived Eve about the issue. He didn’t have the power to alter the word of God, but he did have the power to confuse Eve about the word of God and get her to doubt whether God really said what He said.

Eve may seem incredibly naive for letting the enemy cause her to question what she obviously knew God said, but she's really no more foolish than a lot of modern people. Today we have people looking right at the type on the pages of the Bible, and asking the question, “Was that really what my Bible originally said? Did God really say that?” It’s the same deceptive question that the serpent put into Eve’s mind. The serpent who has never had the power to rewrite the word of God has always had the power to confuse naive humans about the word of God.

Now is it really that difficult to see what the real deception here is?

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I was speaking specifically of who would benefit by the changing of the bible, and I still stand by it, the adversary is the only one.

Then I would have to say that God did not write down what happened in the garden for the adversary to change it then, Moses wrote it down years and years later. So that is moot.

But what Moses tells us this is what happened

he said:And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

She said:And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

he said: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Maybe not outright deception, but slight of hand at the least. He told her basically that God lied to her (and Adam) and that they would not die. The Hebrew in that sentence actually says

And said the serpent to the woman, no die, die.

The words translated surely and die are the same word in Hebrew.

He said: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

It really should read:For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be like God, knowing good and evil.

fwGod said:

This topic should be in the "conspiracy theories" section.

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No, actually it probably belongs in the Prophesy section if there is one. People are calling this manifestation the "Mandela Effect" when actually the ME is a result of unfulfilled prophecy like Amos 8:11-12, or Daniel 7:25. Not the cause but the result.

I'll explain if anyone is interested.

The Parson said:

No, actually it probably belongs in the Prophesy section if there is one. People are calling this manifestation the "Mandela Effect" when actually the ME is a result of unfulfilled prophecy like Amos 8:11-12, or Daniel 7:25. Not the cause but the result.

I'll explain if anyone is interested.

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Go ahead and explain, maybe you will convince me ( and others) there even is such an effect. Because I don't believe it, it's more people get mixed up or don't recall things that have been there all along. Just my opinion.

Dave G. said:

Go ahead and explain, maybe you will convince me ( and others) there even is such an effect.

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Dave, I'm not sure I am aiming to convince or just reason the matter out. After all, the truth shall set you free, right?

One day while preaching a sermon, I asked everyone to quote the Lord's model prayer with me. As I began, I could hear the 100 plus people in the congregation quoting it from their hearts. Mind you, I'm a King James preacher and have been so for almost 30 years. I have hidden quite a bit of God's word in my heart and quite often preach, quoting the scripture without looking down at the familiar passages in my hand. These people; each and every one came to the part where it says/said "thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven". Did I mention each and every one of them?

Yet that passage now reads: "Mt:6:10:Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (KJV)"

Interesting how one word might be remembered by 100 plus people as ON earth, and not IN earth.

Is this a good starting point?

Oh, by the way; that EYA lady on youtube, I steer as far away from her as possible. She is bad news when it comes to accuracy. There was never a love for the KJV in her until this showed up. IMHO, she's just out to make a buck on youtube.

The bible says to mark those that cause dissension. Well I just marked.

I'm an NKJV reader and use it for study, bible study etc. So is my pastor friend who runs the studies. And it's not changed there. I just figure the NKJV is the more accurate translation. It's not changed in either Matthew or Luke's account of the prayer.

Removed.

Dave, I've studied and memorized for decades. It has changed from my perspective. And there is residue of the changes in some books that seem unaffected dating from the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries. But this is only one change among many. Here's just a few others...

Exodus 7:12 For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods. (KJV) Was Moses' rod, not Aaron's rod.

Exodus 24:12 And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. (KJV) Was Tablets, not tables.

Exodus 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel. (KJV) Was Ark of the Covenant, not ark of the testimony.

Leviticus 12:8 And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean. (KJV) Was turtledoves, not turtles.

Job 21:24 His breasts are full of milk, and his bones are moistened with marrow. (KJV) His sides are full of fat, not breasts full of milk.

Job 39:9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib? 39:10 Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee? (KJV) Wild Ox, not Unicorn.

Zechariah 5:9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. (KJV) Now there are female angels?

Matthew 26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. (KJV) It was "Will you sleep on now", not "Sleep on now".

Luke 12:24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls? (KJV) It was sparrows, not ravens.

That's enough for now with this post. There's many more. But think this may give you the jist.

The Parson said:

Dave, I've studied and memorized for decades. It has changed from my perspective. And there is residue of the changes in some books that seem unaffected dating from the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries. But this is only one change among many. Here's just a few others...

Exodus 7:12 For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods. (KJV) Was Moses' rod, not Aaron's rod.

Exodus 24:12 And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. (KJV) Was Tablets, not tables.

Exodus 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel. (KJV) Was Ark of the Covenant, not ark of the testimony.

Leviticus 12:8 And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean. (KJV) Was turtledoves, not turtles.

Job 21:24 His breasts are full of milk, and his bones are moistened with marrow. (KJV) His sides are full of fat, not breasts full of milk.

Job 39:9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib? 39:10 Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee? (KJV) Wild Ox, not Unicorn.

Zechariah 5:9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. (KJV) Now there are female angels?

Matthew 26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. (KJV) It was "Will you sleep on now", not "Sleep on now".

Luke 12:24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls? (KJV) It was sparrows, not ravens.

That's enough for now with this post. There's many more. But think this may give you the jist.

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The best I can say is you don't seem to be alone. We are in strange times for sure. I've seen many of the examples you have posted before, either pointed out to me or online. I just stay with my NKJV. I think my friend who saw all these changes has changed to the NKJV as well.

In terms of world matters changing, it's the world which we know is messed up anyway. My friends view is if we can't trust our trusted bibles any longer then we are in trouble. My view is we still have Christ Himself. But so far the NKJV seems to be unaffected so I continue to use it. Things are supposed to get very deceptive in the latter days though.

Dave G. said:

In terms of world matters changing, it's the world which we know is messed up anyway. My friends view is if we can't trust our trusted bibles any longer then we are in trouble. My view is we still have Christ Himself.

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Fair enough. I was a KJV apologist who believed that the King James was the only faithful translation until this. The spirit of anti-christ is fulfilling prophecy right now from Daniel 7:25. He even changed that particular verse by putting a modern term into it.
Dn:7:25: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
"Wear out" used to be "vex". Imagine that! So what does it say? He'll think to change TIMES (history) and LAWS (the word). And then that power will be given to him. I don't think we're in the tribulation just yet, but he will be revealed (2Thes:2:3:) for who he is, and then I believe we God's people are gonna be outta here!

Shall I continue?